Quote from Racer Y :

BTW what cars use autos in drag racing? Every car I've seen used a 3 or a 4 speed gear box. But those were street, pro street and super stocks. I never really got to see a modern top fuel Dragster or Funnycar - them?

Top fuel cars are direct drive... Who needs a transmission with 8000hp? That would be silly, and would break alot.

MANY, Many purpose built drag cars still use a 2 speed powerglide... How's that for archaic technology! The fact is, torque converts are excellent in very high torque applications. There is far more control over rear end of the car since it's magnitudes easier to keep traction right on the limit of the car's acceleration. Imagine trying to launch a 600Hp musclecar with slicks using a regular clutch :rolleyes:. You'd never get it right, and by the time you do, it's time to shift anyway. You can use less gears with an auto since the converter effectively multiplies torque (makes no sense, but that's what I read all the time). Not to mention that auto's by their very nature can handle more torque throughput than a regular manual can, simply because of planetary gear design strength.

I don't think I've seen many if any 9 second / 10 second cars with 5/6 speed manuals. More like 2 or max 3 speed autos.

Quote :

3. when it's on overdrive for a long time, It'll break down. LOL my big bad B&M eventually
cost me about $400 (?) on a rebuild.

Being in overdrive has nothing to do with anything I'm afraid. Your transmission just broke Top gear on any normal transmission is an overdrive gear (less that 1:1)

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I don't think I've seen many if any 9 second / 10 second cars with 5/6 speed manuals. More like 2 or max 3 speed autos.

Afaik this is manual and best time is under 10
One run results I found is 9.933 / 231.19 kph

It is Moskwitsch Elite, engine block is original Russian copy of BMW engine, that BMW engine block was also used in F1 during turbo era is what I have heard, they have put two turbos to it and fuel injection.

Video

I think that is only under 10s street legal car here. Those that run under 11 there are more, manuals typically.

Edit: Overdrive is not for towing, it will break down if used for such and also if oils are not replaced enough often it can also show up in longer use. Usually slow changing gears is because of old oils in box. It is very typical that people listen what manufacturer says that box don't need oil changes, that is told only so they get more money from repairs etc.
50 000-80 000km is where you really should replace gearbox oils, depending box and use. Failing to do that and eventually you will have slipping box where turbine locking is not working as it should etc.

Some cheaper cars don't even have possibility to change oils to box, there is no drain plug, never buy such car. Oh yes and new Mercedes don't have engine oil drain plug, you need to suck oil out and that is not too good method at all. But with Mercs you get quality of cheap car in package of expensive one anyway so who would buy one

Quote from Racer Y :

I had an Auto trannie with a B&M shift Kit... It was kinda like an automatic overdrive.
I doubt most a y'all that can't stand auto transmissions have ever REALLY experienced rush hour gridlock before. lol

Don't get me wrong, the auto has its place. I use an auto to drive to work as its a 50km trip each way with about 15 slight corners each way. The Canterbury plans has some long straight roads. An auto shines in this task.

ok, put it this way, a stock auto will have a 1K TC and very low line pressure. A stock auto is a very lossy system thats made for comfort - how many racecars use OEM clutches and stock gearsets? Take a Chrysler 727 Torqueflite auto (as found in the likes of Aston Martins, Bristols, Jensens etc etc), add a performance drum setup, up the line pressure, aftermarket trans cooler, performance 2800rpm stall convertor, and you have something that will come off the line like a screaming banshee, shift positively, and take the Lion's share of 1000hp.

Most cars up to Super Stock use autos, go above that and you're likely to see Lencos (which bare little relation to a regular manual trans - they have a transbrake and everything). A Super Stock car needs to come off the line reliably to hit the bracket ET right - doing that with a regular manual trans is very difficult, especially when you need a Swartznegger sized leg to control a clutch that can take the power they're putting out.

Quote from JTbo :

Afaik this is manual and best time is under 10
One run results I found is 9.933 / 231.19 kph

I said most, not all

I know there are very fast cars that run 9/10 (even 8s) but it's not a common thing in comparision.

Nice work on the 1 month bump, BBT

:hide:

Well, I didn't see the posts subsequent to mine until I went looking for this thread for a different reason. I never got a chance to reply in the past.... :sorry:

Fair enough

Maybe Jamexing would like to contribute some posts about CVT being superior or something

Automatics are especially superior in conjunction with Diesels and AWD. If you don't think so you are a brainwashed moron. I would explain it in great detail but instead I'll keep it simple for you simpletons, and rather see what quantity of out of context jargon I can spell incorrectly instead; because it's more entertaining. If automatics had the development time of manuals, they would be used in racing all the time because they can shift so fast. Alas, giant global automotive conspiracy prevents this and CVTs are a coverup to slowly removing the massive-torque handling capabilities of regular automatics. It's so obvious.

BTW did you know that most CVTs use some kind of belt? It has to be strong to work!

That's why there's an oil shortage comming, because of CVTs and belts.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Automatics are especially superior in conjunction with Diesels and AWD. If you don't think so you are a brainwashed moron. I would explain it in great detail but instead I'll keep it simple for you simpletons, and rather see what quantity of out of context jargon I can spell incorrectly instead; because it's more entertaining. If automatics had the development time of manuals, they would be used in racing all the time because they can shift so fast. Alas, giant global automotive conspiracy prevents this and CVTs are a coverup to slowly removing the massive-torque handling capabilities of regular automatics. It's so obvious.

BTW did you know that most CVTs use some kind of belt? It has to be strong to work!

That's why there's an oil shortage comming, because of CVTs and belts.

Thanks Jamexing, very insightful

ok, now thats uncanny!

I somehow feel i need to show my interest in a proper automatic gearbox for LFS! I know its a racing sim, and vice versa.. but i just cant get enough of the sheer sound of an engine hooked up to an autobox (slushbox) i dont care how much power it eats, or how many seconds im loosing on a lap.. just the sound.. ahhh..

so +12391 for an autobox in LFS, the sooner the better!

*******

I found the old Hard Drivin' on an abondonware/freeware download site.. and to be honest, im not sure im getting that proper auto feel, you talked about!

I might just have the wrong version, who knows..

You want the arcade version, rather than the PC port of it (they even ported it to the C64, which was funny at 1 frame every 2 seconds)

are you in any way capeable of finding this? i've searched and im not quite sure i found it.. wouldn't i need some sort of emulator aswell?

Its probably available for the 'Mame' arcade machine emulator, but I'm afraid thats the extent of my knowledge

I know i bumped it, but rather bumping this old one that creating a new thread!




I've searched and read through a whole lot of thread similiar to this, yet this is the one with most back up from our fellow sim racers who agrees that a torqueconverter (slushbox simulation) is needed in LFS, thus this is the thread im replying to.



Alot of the complaints that its a waste of time implementing this in LFS, is based on peoples ideas of LFS as a racing sim. Thats true, but you're forgetting that alot of us also use LFS to kick back and enjoy driving the cars without trying to break the world record! I for myself cant afford a car with automatic IRL (gas prices and thus the MPG), so im driving a manual. I happen to love the sound of the autobox switching gears, and would trade my car with my moms '98 540i (auto) any day! So what better way is there than to cruise around in an auto car in LFS, my favorite race sim.

Im not sure if i would use it while racing, all though im thinking.. for the heck of it, just do it guys!

Racer is another sim where im up on my toes to get a proper autobox implemented. And though racer provides far more programming available to the users, it hasn't happen yet even though several attemps/concepts has been made with external programs simulating what racer dosn't. If such a program could be made for LFS using insim and what not, we wouldn't have this split problem today.

Ok my fingers hurt now... just wanted to release my thoughts!

You must be one of those guys who are always on the cruise servers...

And you're very strange for liking the slurring of the engine as an auto transmission changes gears.

LFS is about racing. That is its only focus, and the devs themselves have stated they do not see fit to support any other kind of activity in LFS (cruising, drifting, CnR, etc.). If any new feature ends up benefiting such activities, it is merely by coincidence.

Quote from Forbin :

You must be one of those guys who are always on the cruise servers...

And you're very strange for liking the slurring of the engine as an auto transmission changes gears.

Is it really something away from you if there would be proper autogearbox? Surely it is not advantage as it looses power, it would be much better than current robot gears, as that would add realism, imo.

Current robotgear should be replaced with proper automatic simulation.

Quote from Gavin UK :

has any game had a realistic auto transmission as apposed to the game changing gear for you?

ya know, P,R,N,D,1,2 overdrive etc etc

just thought it would make the cars sounds better IF you did want auto

Monster Truck Madness 2 has P, R, N, 1, 2, 3.

Quote from JTbo :

Is it really something away from you if there would be proper autogearbox? Surely it is not advantage as it looses power, it would be much better than current robot gears, as that would add realism, imo.

Yes there is something taken away from the majority here if this was implemented. It is called wasted time by the developers and waiting of the users on a feature that would not be found in circuit racing. No one in their right minds would use an automatic transmission on a race track and the time coding it would be taken away from or delaying the coding of something that needs to be in LFS for proper racing realism, such as better damage, engine damage, proper aero effects, etc. Since you would not see an auto gearbox in racing, it wouldn't add to realism in the least.

Quote from mrodgers :

Yes there is something taken away from the majority here if this was implemented. It is called wasted time by the developers and waiting of the users on a feature that would not be found in circuit racing. No one in their right minds would use an automatic transmission on a race track and the time coding it would be taken away from or delaying the coding of something that needs to be in LFS for proper racing realism, such as better damage, engine damage, proper aero effects, etc. Since you would not see an auto gearbox in racing, it wouldn't add to realism in the least.

But you would hear autobox in racing, you would see effects of it as slower acceleration and better launch.

I don't understand wasted time of developers concept, that sound to me more like 'me me me I wan't all now', thinking which all should resists.
I certainly am not going to use auto gears, hardly I could find it beneficial for me if someone else uses it, but current robot gears are certainly unrealistic as tires that won't go flat no matter how you crash.

Also why everyone assumes that auto gears should be next thing devs do, then start to say nay nay when something is brought up as an idea for future...

Quote from JamesK :

Its probably available for the 'Mame' arcade machine emulator, but I'm afraid thats the extent of my knowledge

It is, however its not stable and can br tricky to configure.

Autobox for LFS -1

I remember when I fist started playing LFS, I used auto for a very short time. I was disappointed to find that it was just a manual transmission which shifted gears when the red light turned on. That's when I started using manual since there is almost no difference except I choose when to shift gears. I would really like to see a real automatic gearbox implemented someday, but with low priority because there are more important things to do first. I know this is a little farfetched, but someday I also want to see a CVT implemented, which should actually be pretty easy since you directly control the revs with the gas pedal. It is also a lot more fuel efficient than any other transmission.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

I remember when I fist started playing LFS, I used auto for a very short time. I was disappointed to find that it was just a manual transmission which shifted gears when the red light turned on. That's when I started using manual since there is almost no difference except I choose when to shift gears. I would really like to see a real automatic gearbox implemented someday, but with low priority because there are more important things to do first. I know this is a little farfetched, but someday I also want to see a CVT implemented, which should actually be pretty easy since you directly control the revs with the gas pedal. It is also a lot more fuel efficient than any other transmission.

Auto in LFS is just an aid. It's not intended to simulate a real auto.

CVT is not throttle control of revs - indeed, the revs stay constant!

CVT is not a magic fuel consumption device. If anything, they are a lot worse due to tremendous losses at the moment (for a given engine configuration).

Quote from tristancliffe :

If anything, they are a lot worse due to tremendous losses at the moment (for a given engine configuration).

HAH, Thanks for confirming this - I knew that had to be the case despite all the marketing poop.

I suspect that they would have issues transferring large amounts of torque reliably as well?