Two things would greatly improve the LFS online experience for pickup races.
Please note that it still awesome and I love it at the moment. Emphasis is on the word 'improve'

* Engine Damage - Stop people doing ridiculous downshifting to get faster lap times. It should kill your engine within a few corners.

* Debilitating car damage - At the moment, it is beneficial for idiots to bounce off the walls around South City, drive straight over the final chicane at some AS and FE combos.
Hitting walls should kill your car straight away (rubbing fenders etc), and going over chicanes at 100mph should kill your suspension.
Repeatedly smashing in to the back of another car because you can't judge your braking distance or you're far too aggressive should damage your car and put you out of the race.

Most people will agree that LFS is at it's best when the racing is close and clean. The more this is promoted, the better it will get.
T1 n00bs will learn pretty quickly if their car is un-drivable after smacking in to someone at the first corner...

I don't think shift+s is the real issue here. We'd see less accidents if everone was more careful. More realistic damage would make people more careful.

If you spin or crash the correct thing to do is remain stationary until the track is clear. You can shift-s if you like, but personally I dont favour that.

Quote from farcar :

At the moment, it is beneficial for idiots to bounce off the walls around South City, drive straight over the final chicane at some AS and FE combos.

I agree. I've come to hate FE because the only way to be fast is by flying the car over the kerbs in the chicanes, in a way that should instantly kill the suspension. In LFS it's still risky, and it often causes mayhem in online races.

Just to add my 2€cts to what have been said before...

I miss the old days of CRC,
I miss to be able to enter a 3 or 5 laps race, in late europe time (10PM-12PM) it is hard to find, almost impossible !
I miss close and clean driving with XF and XR,
I miss Rally-X racing.

If I want to spent 30mins-1h and having fun, it is really difficult...

Most of the accidents i see are on the start line, with the back of the grid thinking that their only chance of finishing at the front is to go as fast as they can round the first corner.
If i am at the front of the grid i tend to brake early to slow the pack down on the first corner like on blackwood and it usually works.
If i get taken out on the fist corner i check if there is any damage that will effect me driving it round a track and if there isnt i wait for the pack to get infront then set off behind them as i usually catch most of them round the track eniway.

Maybe we should make adjustments to how we pit e.g. if its minor damage that could be fixed in the pits in a real race (BTCC) then you can fix it but if it is major damage that couldnt be fixed in a real race then you are ou of the race or have to drive the car the way it is.

just a suggestion maybe things could be improved

Quote from farcar :

Most people will agree that LFS is at it's best when the racing is close and clean. The more this is promoted, the better it will get.

That was my point in post 41. Then RacerY posted what he said about judgement and how it depends on who and what you are racing. Of course it does all take judgement, but you shouldn't have to make the judgement based on whether the guy beside you is going to blindly wack into the side of you on exit because he has no clue you are there anymore or whatever. The judgement part should come into play in judging whether the corner allows you to stick side by side or is it a tricky corner where the other racer may have trouble with leaving you room due to the corner and not racing skills. Everyone should strive to be able to race side by side without taking each other out. Everyone should strive to be able to know there is a car beside them and they need to leave room for them on the exit.

Quote :

T1 n00bs will learn pretty quickly if their car is un-drivable after smacking in to someone at the first corner...

The problem with this is, they don't "learn pretty quickly". I like to see who I'm on the server with. When I connect and a race is in progress, I often check the other racers stats, mainly with /w tl command for total laps. I'll see the racer who has the least amount of laps in LFS with 2000 total laps, then at race start in T1, it is a crash fest. If they can't learn within 2000 laps how to make it past the first turn, then they never will. These are people with 2000, 3000, and more laps driven in LFS.

One other problem we now have is there are far more young kids buying LFS. You ask any of the veterans who have been around since the beginning of S2 or earlier how serious they take the racing in LFS and you will see that most take it quite seriously, even with the public short races. It seems that to the kids finding LFS, it is another game and a very fun one. To the adults and the veterans who have been here a long time, it is not just a game, but a substitution for something that we may not have the financial ability to do, and that is real racing.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Cars spin and crash in real life, and they can't magically teleport back to their pitlane when they do.

Car windows break in real life. The metal doesn't bend and stay on the car in those shapes, it snaps off into smaller pieces. Cars don't restart by themselves, they are driven to a scheduled starting point. People don't chat while they race. At most they will have a MIC back to their pit crew, which by the way is invisible in Live For Speed.

Cars may spin and crash, but people die too. Seatbelts are also used. So why play a game when you can be out there too?

My point is, you can't have every ounce of realism here.


Back on Topic: Sure, but they cannot drive onto the track. Possibly on the edge so that when people pass, they can move again. But the best possible way, as GruntOfAction said, Shift+S does wonders for your car's physical status ^^

Quote from mrodgers :

One other problem we now have is there are far more young kids buying LFS.

So now the younger audience is no longer welcome in this game?

Quote from mrodgers :

You ask any of the veterans who have been around since the beginning of S2 or earlier how serious they take the racing in LFS and you will see that most take it quite seriously, even with the public short races. It seems that to the kids finding LFS, it is another game and a very fun one. To the adults and the veterans who have been here a long time, it is not just a game, but a substitution for something that we may not have the financial ability to do, and that is real racing.

It is just a game, but that doesn't cause me to crash into everyone. Sure, there are no consequences. And heck, I just introduced LFS to my 8 year old friend here! He loves it so much, he is the biggest fan and he doesn't even play online! He just wants to have fun.

Sure, it is a good substitute, and though some people may rain on your parade, it's no fair to generalize the whole cloud.

IMHO, I think some people take crashing a bit too seriously. I mean, if your buddy smashes your brand new Porsche into a pole, then sure, you can get angry, but it's just a game. Calm down and think about how much frustration you can avert from when you will have so much more time to keep playing.

So sure, it can be frustrating at times, but it won't help to gripe


PS: I am 13 and if I will ever get S2, it will be next week, what do you think about that?

Also, sorry for the double post.

Im 15 and im a die hard racing fan LFS mostly attracts car/race enthusiasts i know what a racing line is and how to race.

If some children of LFS dont know thier racing line or how to race, there should be some tests on racing lines and braking points in the driver training section, and maybe a racing line in actual races that show when to brake with different colours on the line like in Forza Motorsport which can be tured off if necessary.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Im 15 and im a die hard racing fan LFS mostly attracts car/race enthusiasts i know what a racing line is and how to race.

Sorry I had to laugh seeing that your in one of the City Driving rooms, after posting that :chairfall

Thats just for fun as there seems not to be much people in the servers i want to go on

Maybe because they are all in the bloody City Driving servers

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Maybe because they are all in the bloody City Driving servers

Maybe they just hang around the Citydriving server for relax after several rounds of serious racing

I'm 15, but i DO understand what Mr Rodgers is saying, there are a LOT of people that i've seen try LFS who *think* they can race (this was irl with other 15/16 year olds), who seemed to have NO concept of trial braking, apex's, racing lines, engine braking etc

IMO, if you crash, you should stay - i understand that on the oval it's dangerous coming across a stationary car at 200 MPH, but you had a yellow flag and a mini-map, and you also have to remember that there is always a way around. Avoiding a crash is actually something i deeply enjoy (although more when i go karting irl because i cut it TIGHT, and with lag i usually still have minor contact ), for example last week, turn one of a Kart Track, were running both 240CC and 200CC Karts, and swapping each race, with the finishing order being carried to the next race - i've started about midway up the gird (because i was quite fast, but only in a 200 last race), but dont really make a great start and gain any places, i come into turn one and watch the lead car put his inside wheel on the dirt, brake and drift wide, while the two guys up his backside slam into him, spinning him round on the exit, which is VERY tight (one high kerb on one side, wide enough for two karts, but usually the outside is covered in dirt and crap, and there are tyres placed "strategically"). One kart goes around him, and the lead car then slams on the brakes, spinning 180 degrees, now stationary sideways across the track - apart from the one kart that got through EVERY ONE of the karts hit him on the side - and i just sweeped on by.

Unfortunately they red flagged the race, as the driver didn't have a neck brace, and had been beaten about more than a pub pinball machine, and complained of neck pains.

Even so, its another area of skill thats required, i HATE the "Shift+S n00b" atitude, provided the driver stays still, then the onus is on the driver to avoid the potential accident - what would you do if there was oil on the ground? or debris?

Quote from Jakg :

I'm 15, but i DO understand what Mr Rodgers is saying, there are a LOT of people that i've seen try LFS who *think* they can race (this was irl with other 15/16 year olds), who seemed to have NO concept of trial braking, apex's, racing lines, engine braking etc

IMO, if you crash, you should stay - i understand that on the oval it's dangerous coming across a stationary car at 200 MPH, but you had a yellow flag and a mini-map, and you also have to remember that there is always a way around. Avoiding a crash is actually something i deeply enjoy (although more when i go karting irl because i cut it TIGHT, and with lag i usually still have minor contact ), for example last week, turn one of a Kart Track, were running both 240CC and 200CC Karts, and swapping each race, with the finishing order being carried to the next race - i've started about midway up the gird (because i was quite fast, but only in a 200 last race), but dont really make a great start and gain any places, i come into turn one and watch the lead car put his inside wheel on the dirt, brake and drift wide, while the two guys up his backside slam into him, spinning him round on the exit, which is VERY tight (one high kerb on one side, wide enough for two karts, but usually the outside is covered in dirt and crap, and there are tyres placed "strategically"). One kart goes around him, and the lead car then slams on the brakes, spinning 180 degrees, now stationary sideways across the track - apart from the one kart that got through EVERY ONE of the karts hit him on the side - and i just sweeped on by.

Unfortunately they red flagged the race, as the driver didn't have a neck brace, and had been beaten about more than a pub pinball machine, and complained of neck pains.

Even so, its another area of skill thats required, i HATE the "Shift+S n00b" atitude, provided the driver stays still, then the onus is on the driver to avoid the potential accident - what would you do if there was oil on the ground? or debris?

I am 22, same as u as a kart-racer. I fully understand that LFS is a game, but we treat it as serious as we can, do we? We do treat it as a simulator, as everything close to real life as we can. There are marshals and many regulations for leagues just like real life. Why are people doing that? Just because we are finding the most real-life-like racing experience that we can make out of this sim.

Back to reply, shift-s is absolutely cannot be happened in real life. As you said, when u crash during a race, all you can do is to stay where you at, yellow flags will be used to notify any racers to avoid the accidents. It is also one kind of skills by avoiding potential accidents. Then after the track is visibly cleared, you can go back to your race if your car is still in racing condition.

Quote from Jakg :

IMO, if you crash, you should stay - i understand that on the oval it's dangerous coming across a stationary car at 200 MPH, but you had a yellow flag and a mini-map, and you also have to remember that there is always a way around.

[...]

Even so, its another area of skill thats required, i HATE the "Shift+S n00b" atitude, provided the driver stays still, then the onus is on the driver to avoid the potential accident

That's only true when you're racing with a field of experienced drivers. If you are amidst a pack of cars and at the front someone crashes, you need to lift (a bit) so you're able to avoid the crash. You also need to rely on the ones behind you to do the same.

But at the level I'm racing on, I can't rely on them. When there is a crash, I lift the throttle, but more often than not someone behind just crashes into me and I become part of the scrapheap. Maybe they're inexperienced; maybe they suffer a big fps drop and lose control; or maybe they have that "do or die" attitude. In those circumstances, Shift-S is the best way out of a crash - that is, the way that minimises the loss of racing fun. YMMV.

Quote from Jakg :

I'm 15, but i DO understand what Mr Rodgers is saying, there are a LOT of people that i've seen try LFS who *think* they can race (this was irl with other 15/16 year olds), who seemed to have NO concept of trial braking, apex's, racing lines, engine braking etc



Even so, its another area of skill thats required, i HATE the "Shift+S n00b" atitude, provided the driver stays still, then the onus is on the driver to avoid the potential accident - what would you do if there was oil on the ground? or debris?

Well it's generally about realism in LFS isn't it? I think if you crash or come upon a crash you just take what evasive action you can at the time, this shift S is not a realistic thing is it, if you are scared you'll be hit accept it do what you can to get out of way stay put etc depending on the situation.

But all in all there is little realism in LFS , now before you flame me, let me explain, in real life cars ( which LFS is supposed to simulate) can the driver drive from any other position than in car behind the wheel?

No they can't! I understand for movie making , screenies etc out of car views are great ... but for the sake of realism, equality, and good racing Scawen must enable only in car views etc for actual racing.
Then and only then will LFS be realistic and simulate properly the immersion, fun that real life does?

ShannonN

i find that sometomes drivers who spin out keep their foot burried until the car stops. it makes me laugh sometimes, but on the plus side it did teach me to always to point my car in the direction that the spinner came from. less chance of being collected too.

Quote from ShannonN :

but for the sake of realism, equality, and good racing Scawen must enable only in car views etc for actual racing.
Then and only then will LFS be realistic and simulate properly the immersion, fun that real life does?

Quote from The Statute of the Union of Soviet Writers :

It demands of the artist the truthful, historically concrete representation of reality in its revolutionary development. Moreover, the truthfulness and historical concreteness of the artistic representation of reality must be linked with the task of ideological transformation and education of workers in the spirit of socialism.

Realism is not a visual style. Immersion has nothing to do with pixelated decoration.