If we were basing it on ease of use, then yeah, the FOX would probably come first, but its not about that, the MRT was developed to give students a taste of single seater racing, therefore any license progression for single seaters should really start with the MRT.

As for the prospect of a single seater license system, it is very exciting, hope it doesn't take too long to put together......hint.....hint

Well, I'll be putting pressure on Becky to build the new system from the ground up, with very specific parameters (read: laws) regarding the environment landscape, extensibility and data integrity. I hope she listens!! I have tons of experience in project steering, which would be of benefit.

But it would probably mean that the development may not be as fast as it COULD be. Setting off in the right direction is more important than driving quickly on the way.

could you go with a tree licensing scheme ?
so that for the first few ranks you could eg avoid having to drive the mrt and gain your bronze for both classes in a xfg and then at xrg/fox level the progression path splits ?

Quote from SamH :

Setting off in the right direction is more important than driving quickly on the way.

Bah........said like a true non-biker, a biker would say, going quickly on the way is much, much more important than setting off in any direction

Ive gone for seperate, i loved gaining my licences and moving up servers, This way ill have to work to get where i want to again, all the fun of STCC

Quote from danowat :

Bah........said like a true non-biker, a biker would say, going quickly on the way is much, much more important than setting off in any direction

Speaking as a non-biker, whose first job was digging graves at a cemetary, I'd say that where bikes are concerned.. getting there at all is the most important

touche , there is a great amount of cagers on the road intent on making that quite difficult

I'm still with the MRT|FOX|FO8|BF1 progression. The MRT may be tricky at first but it forces you into good habits that will carry over to make you faster in the FOX and other SSs.

i voted separate. simply because at the end of the day they are two completely different classes of cars. Also moving up in the stages : MRT>FOX>F08>BF1 is the best idea because think of the learning pattern. start off in the rather challenging MRT, to gain the experience with oversteer ect... then moving to FOX which is more forgiving, yet has that much more power, to the F08 (real mans car :P) where learning the tracks with a high powered car and without TC would then set you up for the BF1 (with TC or not wont really matter at this point imo because of the experience with the FO8.)

And yeah Sam's point is spot on... Racing the BF1 would be a pleasure because you are along side experienced racers, and not n00bs that just hop into a car that is way to overpowered for them.

Maybe this could be part of my F1 league i was going to run.... hmmm. unless becky wants to keep it separate.

Separate.

How about, to avoid confusion with the 'road car' licence, you use a different material. At the moment all road cars use a metal licence. Perhaps with single seaters you could use wood (MRT = balsa, FO8 = mahogony, BF1 = plywood (because it's not all that good to race with in LFS)). GTR cars could be composites (e.g. FXR = GRP, XRR = Carbon Fibre, FZR = Carbon/Kevlar Honeycomb... Maybe I should refrain from thinking out loud...

The tier suggestion is good, although I had planned to use that with the GTR servers by offering a GT licence extension for gold and above racers.

For the single seaters, seeing as the vote is going for a 2/3rd majority in favour of a seperate system, I am thinking of the following.

Firstly, the metals will be ditched in order that your SRA licence becomes a combination of the two licences when pronounced. I'm going for a traditional licence naming system:

Clubman (Copper)
National B (Bronze)
National A (Silver)
International B (Gold)
International A (Platinum)
Superlicence (Titanium)

On the MRT/FOX debate, I strongly fear that making MRT the entry level server would likely kill the system. I believe there is capacity for 3 popular single seater servers (allowing for spontaneous growth in the LFS single seater player base because of the system which will degrade over time to whatever natural level it eventually takes), using the STCC as a model it seems it will most likely work with two entry level servers and one pro server.

How these will be organised i'm not yet sure, I am deep in thought though, and I have some ideas...

Driving aids allowed and the progression they give will be moved from car selection (no need for balancing) to licence level.

EDIT: With the exception of auto-gears (which are just plain not allowed except via our disability access scheme) no driver aid will be required to be turned off to race when reaching a new licence level - they will hold your licence so that you can carry on racing - but once you feel ready to turn the aid off will allow your licence to progress.

Or it could be something like: SS C, SS B, SS A. GTR C, GTR B, GTR A.

EDIT: Too late.

Seperate Licences - Double the racing MMMmmmm

PS. MRT would work with 5 min Qualifier then race

infact incorporate a qualifier session after track change for all single seater classes

Quote from Becky Rose :

On the MRT/FOX debate, I strongly fear that making MRT the entry level server would likely kill the system.

absolutely
imho its aweful and has nothing in common with the other single seaters in lfs

Any possibility of using the MRT like the UF1 is now, on a seperate lower ranked server?

Does the MRT count as S1 content ?

I voted for seperate also.

Really good points at post #36 Becky can hardly disagree with any of those

Keep your creative mind spinning

Me 'n' the lads in TS were talking about the MRT, and how to incorporate it into the structure of the thing, while avoiding out-and-out death and destruction on the track..

If an AX circuit were to be developed, where a certain time had to be achieved with no penalties, you were then awarded your basic racing licence. From there, you would be permitted to enter the MRT challenge phase, and compete against other drivers....?

Sounds good Sam. Timed autocross events are a once-in-a-blue-moon thing these days. Would be good to have some!

That AutoX idea is really awesome. I like the idea of actually training people or requiring a display of skill before being allowed to compete. Whilst many people despise the MRT (me included) I think the logic is too strong to deny; it's a beginners SS. I personally welcome the idea because it would give me a good reason to WANT to learn the little POS and run it well. Things may change for it for the better in a number of months with new tire physics updates too.

Looking foward to getting in on this system from the beginning this time. I started the current STCC around a month ago, and it's a pretty great idea! (once again, I live under a rock).

I voted unified for two reasons:

1. I don't think the FOX really prepares you for the next SS. The FOX is a piece of cake to drive compared to the FO8. Sure, they feel somewhat similar, but additional experience with the XRT, the FZ5 or the LXes and their tendency to powerslide is imho really helpful to be able to deal with the FO8s power. So, I think the FOX should come before the TBO class in the license ladder while the FO8 should come after at least the TBO class.

2. very personal reason is that I don't have too much time racing and I wouldn't really want to divide my precious STCC time to two licenses (feel free to disregard reason 2).

But it seems I lost already, anyway. So, be it.

Quote from SamH :

Me 'n' the lads in TS were talking about the MRT, and how to incorporate it into the structure of the thing, while avoiding out-and-out death and destruction on the track..

If an AX circuit were to be developed, where a certain time had to be achieved with no penalties, you were then awarded your basic racing licence. From there, you would be permitted to enter the MRT challenge phase, and compete against other drivers....?

I know the FOX isn't an F3 car, but smaller formula cars (FFords, F3s and so-on) and so-on are used commonly for hillclimbs - the FOX also feels nice on that sort of track.

Maybe - just maybe - the layout should be the one in the training missions for the MRT - it's in the /lesson folder of LFS. That way everyone knows that layout.

The MRT is a downright bitch to drive IMO - oversteer only paralleled by the bloody RaceAbout .

If LFS had an FFord, I would put that as first but as we don't - and as seen as Formula Renault has generally replaced FFord as the second rung on the ladder to F1 (albeit with alternatives, FPA is starting to get interest). All the rookies in F1 (and I'm counting Kubica, but not counting Davidson and Wurz as seen as they have been testing for yonks and/or are coming back to F1) except Sutil (who did Formula BMW, I don't think they have Formula Renault in Germany) have something in common - they all did Formula Renault.

The FOX is also a good car to concentrate on building up line, braking points and racecraft rather than just ensuring you don't spin the thing.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Whilst many people despise the MRT (me included) I think the logic is too strong to deny; it's a beginners SS.

the mrt is way harder to drive than the fox which is just dead
if anything it should be a gimmick for fo8 licencees

edit:
also i personally think that single seater without wings look and are thoroughly silly

Quote from duke_toaster :

The MRT is a downright bitch to drive IMO - oversteer only paralleled by the bloody RaceAbout .

MRT is quite oversteery, and hard to catch, because of it's short wheelbase and mass distribution. However, the RaceAbout is limited by UNDERsteer not oversteer. Whenever I drive it I spend all my time dialing out understeer. The oversteer you have is simply a product of too much throttle.

Quote from tristancliffe :

MRT is quite oversteery, and hard to catch, because of it's short wheelbase and mass distribution. However, the RaceAbout is limited by UNDERsteer not oversteer. Whenever I drive it I spend all my time dialing out understeer. The oversteer you have is simply a product of too much throttle.

i have to agree, the LRF's are a little...dead to me for this exact reason - while racing i just get understeer, yet when messing about it's 24/7 oversteer, although tbh i'm sure it's my fault!

Quote from tristancliffe :

The oversteer you have is simply a product of too much throttle.

ironically so is the understeer

biggest problem with the rac imho is the stupidly laggy turbo ... youre plowing through the corner with constant understeer when the turbo finally does what its supposed to and every bit of the cars design (short light tailheavy) works together to make it swap ends as quickly as possible