I very much enjoy the idea of STCC and working ones way up a ladder. After driving UF1s and XFGs to the point of great redundance, however, I'd like to see FOXs (at least) available as a newbie car for a nice change of pace.

For me, the question is which car prepares you for which cars? The MRT definitely prepares you for other SS cars.. it's a challenging drive on the best of days.. but you've done well if you succeed in it.

You must surely concede that the FOX will do nothing to prepare you for the MRT experience.

Jak will scream when I say this, but the MRT is the closest thing we have at the moment, to a kart. I concede it's not a kart at all, but it would be suited to tracks akin to karting tracks. I quite like the idea of a suite of 4 or 5 intro servers, delivering a kart-ish AX track, with a maximum 7 or 8 racers in each, to bring people in to the SRA career path.

Totally agree SamH, I have personally been racing the Fox and MRT recently and although the MRT is harder to control it's not that bad after a little practice and on any of the SO tracks its a complete Blast The trick is to go to an established server and ask for a decent set up then you will find it alot easier to control with decent settings.

No chance Sam. Can you imagine the nightmare of dealing with new racers to the server dealing with an MRT and saying 'why cant i race fox?' Then soon get booted by the swear filter and not bother returning.

The Fox has to be the entry level server, for reasons of userbase.

Becky any chance of silver and higher automatically gaining entry to second tier servers from the off as in cross migration from STCC (or is this already planned)

It's just otherwise at the start the FOX server will be a nightmare just to get onto and your other servers will be unused until racers gain their respective licences.

PS. have you considered duel bottom tier as in the STCC 1a and 1b - as one could run FOX and the other MRT although the FOX mabe the favourite the MRT does have a following also and i'm sure both servers would be a great success

I would have to agree with Sam on this, sorry Becky, but if you are going to run a SS license system, I thinkthe MRT would have to be included. Also, it would have to come before the FOX because the FOX would not prepare you for the MRT, as Sam said. I understand it's a difficult car to handle but I think that any server, with a setup like the STCC, would be better off without people who are unwilling to learn and who just want to get into the fastest cars a quick as possible. I understand some people are already well able to handle these cars but I would imagine there was just as many people who could drive the UF1-XFG/XRG when they began their STCC license, but still had to go through the motions of getting their Silver license before progressing onto #2 server.

The way Sam suggests, to have an AX with a reduced number racers before actually getting on track, I think is a great idea. People who join the server will soon find out that it's not your normal server and learning to handle the car is the name of the game, NOT seeing who is the fastest/best driver.

I totally agree with Becky, entry level server has to be the FOX. The MRT is a harder car than the FOX, so you'd be going backwards from the MRT to the FOX.

I acknowledge that the FOX does nothing to prepare you for the other single seaters, but the entry level server would be an introduction to race craft rather than vehicle control. Once drivers know how to behave on track you can let em loose with the more difficult vehicles.

So as unnatural as it looks, I'd suggest FOX > MRT > FO8 > BF1 for progression. Possibly combine the MRT and FO8, alternating on the second tier server. Then we have the pinnacle of sim racing, the BF1 tier (where drivers aren't just going round in circles)!

I think I speak for the majority who never bothered completing the training missions, why would they bother doing them just to get into an entry level race server?

How would the system attract the existing Fox racers by offering them an MRT?

I'm sure there is a place for the MRT, but it is one of the most technically challenging cars in LFS, and is also frustrating for beginners because of it's lack of reverse and it's propensity to put you in situations that require reversing. It does not seam suited for use on an entry level tiered server at all, certainly not as the precursor to the 3 proper cars.

Remember that in real life the cars which preceed Formula Renault are quite comparable to it, just with a smaller engine and more restrictions on setup and tuning etc, and before them Go Karts.

The MRT is not a go kart, not even remotely. It's an entry level engineering project for school kids and these days they probably dont even let them race in this country for fear of hurting the loosers fealings (sports days aren't what they used to be over here).

I'm not saying there cannot be an MRT server, but I do believe it is not appropriate for use on the first tier.

On initial launch of the system I will guage how popular the servers are, and there effect on our other servers, and then I will consider setting up an S1 MRT server.

Quote :

Becky any chance of silver and higher automatically gaining entry to second tier servers from the off as in cross migration from STCC (or is this already planned)

This is what the poll is for. Whether the licence is shared between the road cars and single seaters, or whether it is a seperate system. Currently the results suggest the majority would like a seperate system.

Quote from CELTIC100 :

PS. have you considered duel bottom tier as in the STCC 1a and 1b - as one could run FOX and the other MRT although the FOX mabe the favourite the MRT does have a following also and i'm sure both servers would be a great success

This is an idea... provided then that the MRT earns you points at at least twice the rate of the FOX.

The problem is, the other two cars are far harder to drive than the FOX. The FOX doesn't teach the patience and self control required when driving the larger SS cars. The MRT is a much closer type of experience in terms of the skills required for the FO8 and BF1 - it's just on a slower scale.

Its hard to make a decision after reading all the reply's. But, i'd probably go for the entry level FOX. The autoX MRT would be good, but just the samea s the Logitech Rally series. Which uses autoX..etc.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I think I speak for the majority who never bothered completing the training missions

erm, just to point out that more people completed at least some than didn't do any... :hide:

Becky

Quote :

This is what the poll is for. Whether the licence is shared between the road cars and single seaters, or whether it is a seperate system. Currently the results suggest the majority would like a seperate system.

If so are you suggesting that everyone would have to start from scratch even Platinum and Titanium Racers from STCC servers which would render 3/4 of your servers redundant during the first couple of weeks as no one would have access to them due to no licence, IMO Gold from STCC should have immediate access to the second tier and Platinum and Titanium possibly full access from the start.

I voted for a seperate licence system as far as points are concerned but as far as access is concerned could the above or simular be implemented from the start.

If this is not the case you may have to run all servers with the FOX from the Off due to the amount of racers trying to gain access as I believe this will be a resounding success possibly to the detriment of your STCC servers to a certain extent.

Good luck with the balancing act but it's probably best just to jump in and adjust as we go to suit can't wait myself - I'm like a kid whose Birthdays have come all at once

Quote from SamH :

You must surely concede that the FOX will do nothing to prepare you for the MRT experience.

But MRT won't prepare you much for FOX. FBMW would, MRT won't.

Quote :

Jak will scream when I say this, but the MRT is the closest thing we have at the moment, to a kart. I concede it's not a kart at all, but it would be suited to tracks akin to karting tracks. I quite like the idea of a suite of 4 or 5 intro servers, delivering a kart-ish AX track, with a maximum 7 or 8 racers in each, to bring people in to the SRA career path.

That's like saying that the UF1 is as near to getting out of the car and running around the track - it is, but it is nothing like pegging it.

I have a general STCC licencing request - please could we have a 1c as the 1a and 1b servers are the bottleneck in the system.

Quote :

erm, just to point out that more people completed at least some than didn't do any... :hide:

The point is, more people didn't do any or couldn't be bothered to finish them than those who completed it. That's the thing that sticks in my mind, I mean at the end of the day the SRA system cannot be all things to all people, but if I put MRT layout qualification at the entry level it would appeal to less than 50% - that would be a problem when trying to appeal to a new userbase.

Quote :

I have a general STCC licencing request - please could we have a 1c as the 1a and 1b servers are the bottleneck in the system.

With the coming of the single seater servers i'm concerned that opening a new entry level server for the road cars would result in the userbase being spread to thin and the whole thing collapsing on itself.

The good news though, is aswell as the single seater expansion i'll also be adding GT1 and GT2 servers. Exact specifics havn't been worked out yet (single seaters first), but the idea is that the GTR's and the XFR/UFR will be added to the existing STCC licence system as some form of licence extension for gold and above racers.

Becky

Quote :

The good news though, is aswell as the single seater expansion i'll also be adding GT1 and GT2 servers. Exact specifics havn't been worked out yet (single seaters first), but the idea is that the GTR's and the XFR/UFR will be added to the existing STCC licence system as some form of licence extension for gold and above racers.

This just gets better and better

Quote from Becky Rose :

The point is, more people didn't do any or couldn't be bothered to finish them than those who completed it. That's the thing that sticks in my mind, I mean at the end of the day the SRA system cannot be all things to all people, but if I put MRT layout qualification at the entry level it would appeal to less than 50% - that would be a problem when trying to appeal to a new userbase.

Fair enough, but I wouldn't use that data as "market research". My main point being that there is / was no reason for people to do those tests. If slightly less than 50% of people did all the lessons for no good reason, that actually says a lot! If 40% of people are willing to do magnitudes MORE training lessons with no carrot at the end of the stick, then I would think that comparatively almost noone would be put off of the SRA system by one or two "tests" that actually have a purpose to it - moving up in the ranks. It's like an audition as well as training.

Just my thoughts of course.

Quote from duke_toaster :

That's like saying that the UF1 is as near to getting out of the car and running around the track - it is, but it is nothing like pegging it.

lol sorry i had to quote this, it made me smile

Quote from Becky Rose :

The good news though, is aswell as the single seater expansion i'll also be adding GT1 and GT2 servers. Exact specifics havn't been worked out yet (single seaters first), but the idea is that the GTR's and the XFR/UFR will be added to the existing STCC licence system as some form of licence extension for gold and above racers.

Well, that's indeed great news (although you've mentioned that before ), but shouldn't the UFR and XFR be available to silver licensed racers (I'm not just saying that because I'm still silver)? I feel they're easier to drive competitively than the TBO's.

Quote from Becky Rose :

The good news though, is aswell as the single seater expansion i'll also be adding GT1 and GT2 servers. Exact specifics havn't been worked out yet (single seaters first), but the idea is that the GTR's and the XFR/UFR will be added to the existing STCC licence system as some form of licence extension for gold and above racers.

I was going to post some thoughts as I am not in the least interested in racing anything that has to do with the MRT or the FOX. I just don't care for the MRT and last April's physics/tire patch ruined the FOX, IMO. That use to be a fun car, now it is just wierd feeling for me. I think somewhere along the line, you should be able to run SS cars with the higher license of the tintops. If you add the baby GTRs and the big GTRs to the current licensing, I'll be quite happy. But if the licensing doesn't somehow cross over into the single seaters, then I have no hope of ever having STCC fun in the F08 as I don't like the FOX at all.

Love the single seat seprate license thing.

Also I wish you got bonus points for doing stuff because....

I was doing a 13 lap race today and on lap 4 I hit the wall and totaled suspension......went through the whole race, not disruptin anyone, and finished 3rd!

I wish i had gotten a purple cross or something like the military has lol.

i voted for a new licence system, even if i´m at 30k+ in the old ones.

the only thing i really really hope is, we could use the MRT at some way
and ALL cars gives you points at all licence level´s

I'm still with the MRT crowd on this. I know its very different from other cars in terms of slip angles and wheelbase so takes some getting used to but it really aint that hard to drive after you understand the vehicle dynamics. Also, it does have reverse, it's just you have to go down through neautral and back up a gear to get to it.

Just to throw another idea in, maybe the LXs are actually good preparation for the FO8 too.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Also, it does have reverse, it's just you have to go down through neautral and back up a gear to get to it.

Thats a new one on me , I have never, and can't, find a reverse gear on the MRT

Quote from danowat :

Thats a new one on me , I have never, and can't, find a reverse gear on the MRT

aah - hang on a sec - maybe I'm thinking of getting neutral

lol - oh well - don't leave it in a shumi/rascasse position then

and there's always SPACEBAR

Didn't have the time to read all posts, but here is my suggestion:
Combined
Meaining you need bronze or silver to start on single seaters but get your own license with single seaters then