With the sign up already at 30+ I'm looking into the possability of splitting the field into 2 divisions and racing over 2 servers

If this occurs then we will need to address the issue of ranking players/racers/teams and also to work out how dynamic it will be.

I am thinking unless other people have ideas to just double the points on offer for the top division per race.

The divisions are worked out each race after qualifying on 2 servers (it does not matter witch server you qualify on) the top 20 go to division 1 for that race and the bottom 20 go to division 2.

I think the SIM FIA DTM series runs the same system

if there are less than 40 people we'll split the racers in half, meaning if 34 people race then it'll be top 17 in div 1, 18-34 in div 2, so both fields are the same.

At the next week race the qualifying again sorts out the order...

The only down side to this is that both servers will have to run at the same time (sorry Arrow )

Does anyone have any thoughts/praise/concern for this system?

This is a free board, so comments are always welcome, just no flames please

Best Regards,

Dru.

I kinda like it because it makes you drive with people equal your speed, but it does require quite some admin work I guess..
What about making the drivers send in a hotlap, and compare that to the other drivers? That way you also make a check of which people are still "alive" or interested in the league, and you have the knowledge beforehand.
Or, do the reassigning after a round is finished (like the last 5 of div1 go down to div2, and the first 5 of div2 go to div1 (like they do it in conedodgers)).

Does I understand your point right Dru?

Quali Server 1 + Quali Server 2 -> up to 40 timed racers -> best twenty go to server Division 1 the rest go to server Division 2

The point system needs to be continued when it will be like that. The problem I see ist to collect the times and sort it out and inform the racers who have to change the server or who not. It would take time.

I've another Idea. We'll race first the feature race and after that the sprint. So what about making a cut after the feature race and let the best 10 of each server fighting for these Sprint Points?

i would not do it via qualify... because the best of the 2nd division isn't that challenging? i'd imagine...
how about doing it like football leagues? mayba a bit wider spectrum... the last 5 of 1st div of the race will drive in 2nd division next time and the first 5 from 2nd div in the 1st in the next race?
or only 3 best/worst and so on...? only an idea but the qualifying setting and splitting exactly to two leagues is a bit sterile i think
you have to put the 2nd divs 1st place pts lower than last 5 places (or no pts?) in 1st league, so that a 1st div driver doesn't drive consciously bad to become more points in 2nd div next time... that's my humble opinion to this

Quote from TFalke55 :

Does I understand your point right Dru?

Quali Server 1 + Quali Server 2 -> up to 40 timed racers -> best twenty go to server Division 1 the rest go to server Division 2

The point system needs to be continued when it will be like that. The problem I see ist to collect the times and sort it out and inform the racers who have to change the server or who not. It would take time.

I've another Idea. We'll race first the feature race and after that the sprint. So what about making a cut after the feature race and let the best 10 of each server fighting for these Sprint Points?

Yes , you understand my point correctly.

however, rather than swap people after the first race (feature) it will take less time to changes drivers around at end of qualifying.

You could do it that one ZWR admin is in both servers and after q is finished they quickly compare times in ventrillo and then issue a list of people to go to which server 1 or 2. then when everyone is on the server the admin for that division then arranges the grid.

It's not too complicated i think and can be done ok.

Regarding points you could double so div 1 scores 80-41 and Div 2 scores 40-1 for the rounds and the double that for last race enduro

i welcome all ideas at this time.

also if anyone has or knows of software that will hlp with the publishing of race results and finishes etc etc.

Thanks all,

Dru.

Quote from DrFred :

you have to put the 2nd leagues 1st place under the last place in 1st league, so that a 1st league driver doesn't drive consciously bad to become more points in 2nd league next time...

exactly - i have posted a suggested scoring system for this, however the guys in Div 2 can still get fastest laps and pole posisiton points etc..

Quote from DrFred :

how about doing it like football leagues? mayba a bit wider spectrum... the last 5 of 1st div of the race will drive in 2nd division next time and the first 5 from 2nd div in the 1st in the next race?
or only 3 best/worst and so on...? only an idea but the qualifying setting and splitting exactly to two leagues is a bit sterile i think

if we did this we would have to make sure it is the right number of people going up and down, what we want is also that people race against similar guys week in week out - work out who you can race with and who you 'leave alone' so to speak...

If we did bottom 5 and top 5 change places for the next round this could make sense.

It also means people who do not show also get punished for the next race. and have to drop to div 2.

our posts overlapped so the last 5 drivers don't get any points, how about that? (only at 20 drivers each div) if 15 drivers then i would lower it to 4 or 3 who change the divisions... and maximum of 10 drivers who get points because 24 is max. players on servers since patch W? if 2 divisions with 13 players drive so the "challenge" of ascension is still there

Quote from DrFred :

our posts overlapped so the last 5 drivers don't get any points, how about that? (only at 20 drivers each div) if 15 drivers then i would lower it to 4 or 3 who change the divisions... and maximum of 10 drivers who get points because 24 is max. players on servers since patch W? if 2 divisions with 13 players drive so the "challenge" of ascension is still there

i think that everyone who finishes a race should get points, but you are right that we need a motivation, we should all think about this. obviously it depends upon the final numbers, but i would like that whatever numbers we have from week to week it should be split over the two divisions, for instance if we have 34 one week, there will by 17 in each division rather than 20 and 14 but i'm open to suggestions

I don't like the idea of making the top 5 driver in each division keep swaping from div and div because the the top 5 from division 2 will be fairly underpace when the d1 guys comes and fright for that place.

I think it would better to put a valid hl chart into the league so that all drivers with different pace can have a good chance of winning and good battles with people on there own pace.

Quote from rc10racer :

I don't like the idea of making the top 5 driver in each division keep swaping from div and div because the the top 5 from division 2 will be fairly underpace when the d1 guys comes and fright for that place.

I think it would better to put a valid hl chart into the league so that all drivers with different pace can have a good chance of winning and good battles with people on there own pace.

JP,

you are quite right..perhaps however i'm not sure if the best way is to persue it by perhaps valid HL that week upto the time of the qualifying or do the split after qualifying, as otherwise it might get a little strange with 2 different divisions wheich perhaps team mates are racing in different ones?

Any more ideas?

For some reason i dont like that. I would rather just take the first 15 to sign up and the next 15.

How about a qualifying day, 2 servers with 15-20 in each, select say 3 of the seasons tracks and we run 3 lots of 15min qualifying sessions back to back.
You save the replays, take each drivers qual time from each track and rank each person on their total time.

It gets everything sorted out in less than 90min, and it could be scheduled the week before the season is due to start, that gives time to decide which tracks to base the Qualifying round on, people have time to practice those tracks, and you have 1 week to do the simple task of saying who goes into Division 1 and who goes into Division 2.

The only problem i see with this system is that it kinda makes the constructors championship a little harder to arrange. If you have drivers in seperate divisions then neither a 40-21, 20-1 or 20-1 & 20-1 points system is going to make a competitive or fair way of calculating this.
I cant say im all that bothered about the team aspect, but thats just me.


The other option would be like Pecker mentioned, HLVCs for that track to be submitted between Mon 00:00 & Wed 23:59, use a keyword as a timestamp, so on Monday you say the keyword is 'Im a chunky monkey' and this has to be typed at the beginning of the lap to prove that it was recorded during the window. If its submitted to the forum or wherever on Thurs then thats your call, but if it doesnt include that message at the beginning then people could submit an existing lap they've done months ago.
On the Thursday someone would have to take those HLVC laps and inform everyone what group they're in, and this is done week in week out.


The Qualifying round to me is a better option, the 3 day window means you have 72hrs to get a lap in, no pressures of having just 15min to perform. Though it does allow the constructors system to run as intended.

As already said doing a 40-man qualifying session before the race and then organising who should be in what server is going to be messy as hell. It would take time to get the 2 results and sort them accordingly, then you have to wait for everyone to move to the correct server.
Very messy, and because it only takes 1 or 2 people to disappear when being told to switch server it means people may get impatient with waiting if it keeps happening.

Or get everyone to upload two hotlaps. Add those two times together and then split the group in half. Then keep those two groups the same for all the races. Its only a short season so I don't think it would matter being stuck in one division. This would also need the two divisions to be run with separate points to make it fair.

Summary:
Everyone uploads 2 hotlaps from combos of your choice
Using something similar to the LFS Tracker thingy split the group in half.
Run the league as normal but with two divisions and both having equal point scoring chances.

what about teams in div 1 and single drivers in div 2?

I've not seen the entry list since i got back from my holiday, but it might work? and the points go as the point rules say accross both divisions, but they all get put together for the overall champ which works accross both divisions.

eg: Pickard and team mate in Div 1 - Pickard wins and gets winners points
and: Me in Div 2 - win the race and get the winners points aswell.
both drivers points go into the drivers championship.

then it'll be more down to consistancy through the whole league which determines the championship.

Quote from mr_x :

what about teams in div 1 and single drivers in div 2?

I've not seen the entry list since i got back from my holiday, but it might work? and the points go as the point rules say accross both divisions, but they all get put together for the overall champ which works accross both divisions.

eg: Pickard and team mate in Div 1 - Pickard wins and gets winners points
and: Me in Div 2 - win the race and get the winners points aswell.
both drivers points go into the drivers championship.

then it'll be more down to consistancy through the whole league which determines the championship.

Good suggestion, however we have 12 teams of 2 signed up, meaning 24 racers for the team server and only 16 for the singles.

This would only work if we 'broke' 2 teams up to get 20 in each...

Comments?

as a short idea i had now shortly you could do a "final challenge" with the best drivers of each league in a final endurance race? (the best 10 of each div.)?

Quote from DrFred :

as a short idea i had now shortly you could do a "final challenge" with the best drivers of each league in a final endurance race? (the best 10 of each div.)?

This has already been considered - and we may post something once the league is underway.

Also depends upon W0.9 as in whether or not you can make a 28 man race with the top 14 of each division invited for a one night race.

All we ask now is that people start submitting their hotlaps of SO Town so we can sort out the divisions

If its going to be 19utc i wont be able to race sorry.
That will be 5am for me in Aussie land since day light saving ended

Quote from Arrow. :

If its going to be 19utc i wont be able to race sorry.
That will be 5am for me in Aussie land since day light saving ended

Unfortunately Arrow I think the UTC 19.00 time is set and can not be changes for this series.

UTC 19.00 now means

8pm start - UK/Portugal.
9pm start - Mainland Europe.
10pm start - Eastern Europe.

With the qualifying and racing in total going to take around 90 minutes, i don't think we can push it any later i'm afraid

Thank you however for your interest in this series and its great that there is still Great resprentation of Fusion remaining here

All the best,

Dru.

/me gets practicing UF1 at SO Town.

Quote from Dru :

Unfortunately Arrow I think the UTC 19.00 time is set and can not be changes for this series.

UTC 19.00 now means

8pm start - UK/Portugal.
9pm start - Mainland Europe.
10pm start - Eastern Europe.

With the qualifying and racing in total going to take around 90 minutes, i don't think we can push it any later i'm afraid

Thank you however for your interest in this series and its great that there is still Great resprentation of Fusion remaining here

All the best,

Dru.

No worries mate
If you need a hand let me know