The penalty system needs to be track-combo specific to be good. Will take a lot of work to get it done properly, but once done it'll be possible to win with every car in it's class on any given combo.

Balancing per combo is going to take a lot of time to make it perfect though, is it worth it?

One good thing has come of this tho: Aliens won't run away with the race now, even you can win a race with them (but they probably need to be a bit heavier than you).

This seems a bit odd to me - has the FXO been treated to more weight too? 'Cause on the STCC servers, the only thing that keeps the XRT from drowning in a sea of rapidly cornering FXOs is its straight line speed (seems to me that sorting out the diffs would be more of a priority than piddling around with weight dis/advantages...)

Why do we need to balance the cars for every track? I think this good how now works (W9). Just need to think about the cars limits. As Jakg said before.
You cant change the car's specifications. for example drivetrain, engine position, overall weight, (aerodinamic) wheel size, etc ...

For example FXO's weight point is much below (thanks to the flat engine) than RB4 or XRT. It makes him faster in the corners, but the balance isnt good. Most of the weight is in the front.
XRT is faster than RB4 in the straights thank to its better power/weight ratio.
RB4 have a full time 4WD . Hopeless to challange with it in rallycross tracks.
etc ...
Every car have a little advantage in different type of tracks, or just in a specific section of the track. This makes the races more interesting. Should we put 200kg extra weight to the RB4 in rallyx tracks, to keep up the others with him?

I think we just have to keep the cars abilities in mind, and try to have great battles :eclipseeh

lol you werent joking when you said you would make a thread complaining. :uglyhamme

Quote from DanneDA :

The penalty system needs to be track-combo specific to be good.

No, and just rethink a bit, then you also know why.

Quote from Jimmy_Lemon :

yes but thats the point. i dont want to eaven them out. because no one uses the other two for ovaling, they just use xrt, and now xrt is slower..

But they would use the other cars if they were evenly matched. Just give it time and it will be done. This test patch is not final.

Quote from Vykos69 :

No, and just rethink a bit, then you also know why.

I agree with him and not you, Vykos. Otherwise, what's the point anyway!?

This balancing system is not meant to make every car equal on every track. It's meant to offer a way of balancing the classes so that no car dominates on majority of the tracks and it is meant to this balancing without the need to release incompatible patches. This way balance issues can be addressed faster, more accurately and without the drawback of a physically incompatible patch.

The point is this:

Quote from Scawen :

Don't be worried. As some others have answered already, it's not about that kind of laptime balancing. It's impossible to balance exactly a FWD, RWD and a AWD car. You can see we aren't trying to do something like that, and that's why the balancing is global and not track specific. The problem was that the FXO was seconds ahead on every track - so if you liked RWD you would lose to an FXO, guaranteed, no matter where you raced! And that's not how we wanted it. Now one car or another has strengths and weaknesses at different tracks.

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

I agree with him and not you, Vykos. Otherwise, what's the point anyway!?

to bring the competition closer without killing the advantage/disadvantage of a car's characteristic on a certain track. leaving some car faster where it should be, depending on the track of choice.

the cars are much closer in competition now.. at least a few races i've had have shown this. If we want perfectly equal racing, we should all drive the same exact car. I have to say i agree with vykos. The server/admin can do whatever he wants if he feels the cars are not close enough...

Global balacing via master server is good, and has closed the gap in most cases.
Individual balancing is easily carried out per car type on a server.
Further balancing can be done by asking individual drivers to carry ballast (success ballast for example)
Next physics patch will bring car changes to aid balancing further.

I don't see what the problem is - as far as car balancing in LFS goes we're on the right track, and doing pretty damn good. Just because on one or two tracks the gap has widened, or because the XRT is slighty slower on the oval is a pointless discussion.

Take two cars that are perfectly balanced over a british championship using all the tracks. Then race those cars on a drag strip, on a dirt/gravel course, on ice etc and you'll find there is no such thing as a perfectly balanced pair of cars when you increase the number of variables (track types).

Quote from JJ72 :

YOU ACTUALLY CAN DO THAT.

okay. i never knew. so i can take the extra 20kg off my xrt on the tbo oval server me and my friends play via admin.?

how would i do that please

Quote from Vykos69 :

No, and just rethink a bit, then you also know why.

To be fair, which TBO season is ever going to use Kyoto Oval as part of its rotation? There might be people who would have liked to do an oval series with TBO though, so there should at the VERY least be some kind of server side compulsory balancing, or else there might as well have been no balancing done at all. This is the perfect example of why track-specific balancing isn't actually such a thoughtless idea which the people who suggest it just need to think about for a while.

None of which helps the OP, though, because his complaint is that 20kg has made the GTT boring Use road normals, then the challenge will be there again.

by adjusting a slider?

you cant remove the extra 20kg using the slider tho its grey'd out you can only change the position of it.

and yes eaven racing is good but the fact that its still not eaven on the tbo oval server me and my friend runs means we all use xrt still but now its boring because they grip alot better so its not "AS" challengeing and it gets boring quicker.

is there any admin commands to remove the extra 20kg then? thanks

Not atm, no.

Just run road normals, or put the ballast in a place that makes it more unstable

i have it fully to the rear like real nascar's and its .10 slower still.

mainly because if you try the world record line its not got enough BHP/ton to keep the speed up.

anyways nvm i just pray for the day s2 full is fully completed and everythings wiped clean no records instead of applying little things bit by bit, i think it would of been best just to do it all at once?

ah well

Quote from Jimmy_Lemon :

not "AS" challengeing and it gets boring quicker.

I can't see how oval can be challenging especcially in TBO's and don't really see why and how you ever felt "challenged" in doing so. Also, if it's boring you, why not actualy try a track like blackwood or south city where you don't even need someone else to drive against to feel "challenged".



EDIT : If it were all done at once, there would be thousands of bugs to be found from player testing, not to mention the fact we wouldn't have many of the good things we do ATM, like the BF1, physics and aero updates.

Imagine the list of updates Scawen would need to do if it was "all at once".

then road normal time?

EDIT - Bawbag - in the TBO's there is either only one line round the last corner thats flat out and quick (FXO), or you have to lift off a little to get the best speed/line (XRT) - apparently now you can do it flat out and its boring. Try SO4R in the XRT, and then think about how you thought lifting off once a lap was interesting

i can see why balenced cars is fun. but destroying two great cars instead of making the not so great ones better isnt the right thing to do?.

because there no where neer balenced as standard on oval unless you reduce the power even more, which is making the good ones even more worse than theyv allready become :S

i guess we will have to wait and see what the rest of the patches offer untill s2 final

What do you mean worse than they've already become? I very much doubt the XRT, FXO or RB4 are even remotely difficult to drive on the oval, and now it's a bit slower meaning driver 'skill' (smoothness, rather than proper skill) is MORE important.

But in this context we don't care about your individual problem with one car on the oval - we're talking a global overall improvment. So what if you are now a wee bit slower.

its actually about 80% smoother now so theres no skill on oval. befor you had to let off rather alot on last corner now you can just floor it so what you just said was total oposite of the real events

Quote from Jimmy_Lemon :

i can see why balenced cars is fun. but destroying two great cars instead of making the not so great ones better isnt the right thing to do?.

First of all making cars better really wasn't an option here and atleast FXO isn't a very realistic either and it will be made worse in the next incompatible physics patch for two reasons: 1. it will be more balanced with the rest of the TBO class 2. to make it more realistic.
Also the oval is an special enviroment. The choice was either to make all cars baalnced there or balanced at the other tracks, the reason why the latter was chosen should be obvious.

btw Oval isn't a very natural enviroment for TBOs either, oval is more suitable for cars with high power..
(I am not an expert on the subject, but I can't see them running a 250hp cars on ovals in real life)