As most of you should be aware by now, with the next incompatible patch the max amount of cars in a race and the number of spectators will be increased. Masters of Endurance will of course make use of this increased capacity.

We will have 27 cars in the race thus having room for 27 teams (1 slot is still reserved for the Pace Car).

This 27 cars will be split up in two classes, most probably GT1 and GT2 with GT1 being the GTR class and GT2 being the FWD GTR class. The exact classes and the number of cars allowed in each class is yet to be determined.

MoE season will start traditionally in September with the 12h of Kyoto GP.

:elefant:

nice

can't wait till sep.

reintjan

Very interesting indeed, good news!

Have you guys any thoughts of penalty weight to even up the differences between cars and maybe some handicap system for the winners, like in WTCC where the top placed cars get extra weight?

We will see how things pan out. First we need to see where the balancing process leads us to. After that, yes we are (or at least I am ) pondering the possibility of having "success penalties". FIA GT uses them, LMS does not. I am not sure if we really should use them since we do want the best team to win and not the team that manages its weight penalty the best.

But we do have a little time to figure that stuff out, don't we.

I enjoyed 2 Class Racing during LFS GT, but the problem was, that with only 9 cars (maximum) per class the competition could often stay for only an hour. The bigger grid will surely pay off.

Splitting up the grid is imo a missed opportunity to have a full gt1 grid. With 27 gt1 cars there will be enough action and fighting on the track. Splitting up the grid (although undetermined) will most likely get the same amount of gt1 teams as last season, and considering there were allot of teams eager to get a spot in the series... IMO its just nicer to use the increased slots to get more competition in the same class, rather then splitting it up. The handicap feature will already give more variety on the grid. Imo MOE should stay as a GT1 only series whereas LFSGT is multiclass.

Of course with everything not being finalized yet (patch and MOE plans) its just first thing that came to mind

just an idea.. why not make the GT2 class like in JGTC with 300 hp? we have the restrictions on the intake now.. it's possible to make a 301 hp FZR/XRR/FXR making it GT300 class, and 490 hp is GT500 class.. FWD gtrs will probably be passed too much and cause of they slowpoke pace, they will be in the way in long corners.. think about GT300 at least..

Actually, that is pretty good idea. We'll keep that in mind. We would have to find a way that the slower class could be easily told apart from the other class, but that should be possible.

Great input there, thanks.

Well, I really like the idea of having different car classes on the track. just like every real endurance league has. As Jack said MoE is kind of THE league with all the big teams, so I kind of expect that the top drivers are able to handle to have different (slower) car classes on the track doing their own race.

I don't think it's really difficult to do the standings, as it should be easy to implement some kind of filter (by cars, team numbers or whatever) to display the standings (assuming that the tracker works ).

But of course 27 cars of the same class would be quiet impressive

It's not a question of "if", just one of "when". MoE would have started out with two classes had the servers had the capacity at the time we started. It was always a goal in the back of our heads.

Let me ask something before the sign up starts...
I sign up a team and declare six drivers, right? In each race we decide which four drivers will take part. In case more than 2 drivers can´t race, can i change (sign up) the team drivers at any time between races in order to have 4 drivers on track?
I´d like to take part of the season from the beginning...

Have to agree with Clownpaint here.
If the amount of cars on tracks was 40 or so it would be nice thing to mix classes, but even on last season with 17 or so cars around it felt a bit lonesome at times.

I agree too. I think 27 still not enough for 2 class racing.

I seriously like the idea of the mixed racing. But as said, numbers are a little too small at the moment! Using this grid as a full GT1 league will be insanely fun.

But hey lets wait and see what happens in the near future with max racers and all, we do have until September

We could still have 17 GT1 cars. No problem at all. We will let you know well ahead of season start on how it is going to work.

I have been part of MoE now for 2 years and i like the way it is....More cars is fantastic in my eyes like having 27 GTR cars racing like omg that would be awesome and then the talk about adding GT2 cars I think it will spoil MoE and i agree with clownpaint in every way there. Keep MoE the way it is because it works. If you want to have GT2 cars then start another league before or after MoE season because i think that would be cool. GTR cars on there own all the way if you ask me.

I think 2 classes will be great, as it was when I drove in LFS GT. Even with total of 9 cars (6 GT1 and 3 GT2) on one occasion it NEVER went boring. Constant overtaking action of two classes and improvisation in doing so is what makes it such a great challenge. If you didn't try it its much harder and much more fun than you might think. Two classes is definitely MORE action, not less. Races are very very long, so following two races in one is less boring for Mika and viewers, there will always be two winners (more people happy ), and satisfaction for everyone will be greater because its more difficult and more fun.

27 cars total is more than enough for 2 classes. How many enter Lemans in 4 classes? 40something total? 17 and 10 cars in each class (for example) is still more than enough competition because nobody really competes with everybody else on the grid (like it is the case in any racing). OK, instead of like 4-5 direct rivals each team might have something like 6-7 if there would be 27 teams in same class, which is better, but still essentially the same as before. The point is that so far our races have been simplified, it was all about speed, consistency and preparation which was of course great, but big traffic was missing among other things that make real endurance series.

17 cars last season might seem lonely, but that was only 1 class and difference in speeds were not so big. When we get slower class in there will overtaking on every lap, and each time in a different way. Its just too great to be missed, multiclass racing is what endurance is about.

Also, I like scipy's idea a lot. 300hp big cars would be much nicer than small fwds for sure. I'm imagining slower class having brightly coloured stripe on rear of the car, and faster ones having same or similar thing in the front. Problem might be tracking hotlaps and pbs in preparations for restricted cars though.

Oh, and I hope success ballast thing never crosses admins' minds.

2 classes.
:bunny:

If you have 27 cars on the track, and have 2 classes, that actually wont be that bad.

Give GT1 a priority if you want (more), but think about it... How many competitive teams are all on GT1? I'd say about 10 teams last season were all competitive with each other. If the really fast teams want to have an all out close battle, stick to those fastest teams for GT1, and you'll definitely have a nice battle.

Say you have 15 GT1 cars, and 12 GT2 cars... that is PLENTY! (27). Also take into account that this is nearly double the amount of cars on the grid, only now there will be the second class taking part. Give other teams a chance to win in GT2... because GT1 is the 'pro' racers . By having two classes, you give a points battle for lots of people, and not just GT1 which will be dominated by a few top teams. Mixing classes is what endurance racing is all about... and different divisions competing against each other for their own respective class points makes the series 10x better for everyone.

Honestly, having 2 classes is not something you should scrap. 15 cars in one class is very similar to how it is really done... if not MORE than in real endurance series.

The only danger of having 12 GT2 FWD cars on the tracks are that they are significantly slower... and we've seen what kind of accidents can happen (from LFS GT series). Which leaves me to this idea:

Quote from scipy :

just an idea.. why not make the GT2 class like in JGTC with 300 hp? we have the restrictions on the intake now.. it's possible to make a 301 hp FZR/XRR/FXR making it GT300 class, and 490 hp is GT500 class.. FWD gtrs will probably be passed too much and cause of they slowpoke pace, they will be in the way in long corners.. think about GT300 at least..

And I really like that idea . JGTC is definitely an interesting series with their classes, and having power-limited GTR cars would definitely make it safer, as their speed will not be incredibly slow, and their cornering will still be nearly as good as GT1 cars. Hell... if you do choose to have 2 classes, at least scrap the FWD GTR cars and use the ones we have. Better strategies for them :up:

Phil, I'll need to talk to you about something else in IRC when you have the time

Quote from Misko :

Problem might be tracking hotlaps and pbs in preparations for restricted cars though.

Nah, just press F11 on anyone's car, and you'll see their restrictrions/handicaps Probably can be checked through some program even.

Guess I was too quick to read (only) the first two paragraphs :P

We already have LFS GT, and by having an additional class in MoE itself, I really don't see how the races will be more interesting - they will become random for both classes.

I would much more prefer a random factor caused by skills/commitment rather than different classes.

Quote from r4ptor :

Guess I was too quick to read (only) the first two paragraphs :P

We already have LFS GT, and by having an additional class in MoE itself, I really don't see how the races will be more interesting - they will become random for both classes.

I would much more prefer a random factor caused by skills/commitment rather than different classes.

That makes no sense at all... and LFS GT really has no correlation to what MoE wants to do with 2 classes. LFS GT has always had very minimal 2 class racing, and actually, NOW, LFS GT is kind of not even needed as a sub-league of MoE. The multi-class racing is what is so unique for a plethora of teams... you have to think about just HOW many competitive teams there are in the LFS community. Not many. And when you put all of those teams in one group, you still only have a very SMALL amount of worthy results with only a FEW teams. So.... what good does it do any of us if we have 27 GT1 class cars on the track, when only the top 5 some-odd teams will EVER be in a race for points? It just leaves the competitiveness for the entire GT1 class to about 20% of the entire grid if we had all GT1. Motivation certainly would decrease if this was the case, and many teams enter MoE knowing that they wont win, but they want to give it a shot one way or another.

Which is a point I am trying to make that having 2 classes gives opportunities to even MORE people in MoE, and not just the small fraction of fast GT1 drivers. It would be better having results for 2 classes so that there are chances for not just one class of cars, but two. Kind of like increasing your own odds of winning or having a great result. Do you really think that racing in a full class of 27 GT1 cars would better your odds of getting a podium? Hell no, that would be long shot to even come close. MoE is filled with lots of experienced drivers and teams... and some that are not 'quite' as fast, but still have the motivation to drive long distances. Those people should be able to choose where they want to compete knowing their own skill level and experience. If the veterans from MoE's last season entered into a 15 car GT1 class, they'd be competing for that class. If there were some new teams wishing to compete in MoE, and felt they were only on the level of a GT2 title, they could give that a shot. Heck, even some past MoE teams could make a change, feeling they are better off in a slower class. Not everyone is an uber alien in the GT1 cars, so give the league some options. Only then will you get results based on "skills and commitment"... because they are in a position they are contracted too, and rightfully so.

LFS GT is pretty much what could be the GT2 class in MoE. There is no way in hell you will get 27 uber fast GT1 teams on one server, there just isn't that many to go around in LFS.

Then you have to think about what the multi-class racing does to the racing itself. Traffic is always a factor in endurance racing, and we can't just have loads of GT1 cars on the track which pose no real threat to the leaders of the race. You need to mix things up a bit to really define those teams/drivers for skill and commitment... because in the thick of it all, those people will perform really well in endurance racing situations.

As a final point, we don't have very many endurance racing situations to begin with. We don't have weather, we don't have day/night, we don't have mechanical failures, we don't have 4 classes (le mans), we don't experience the kind of fatigue real drivers do.... etc... So, why should we continue to leave MoE with just a bland 1 class series??? It makes it so BORING if you do just that in my opinion. Hell, if we have the chance to have 2-classes, GO FOR IT.

Even though not too many teams are super fast, I would prefer to have them compete in one field - strive for improvement for later races/season, rather than having multiple classes, where GT2 would be "invisible" to GT1 drivers and vice versa regarding competition.

But I do however agree that a multi class league would be a nice addition. I just don't see MoE as we have come to know it to support multi class.

Just because we can have more cars doesn't mean we should mix. That doesn't make any sense either.

I also don't understand why it's a problem, or at least an argument that not too many teams are fast in MoE - how will another class help that? With two classes, the slower class will more or less have to make way and not really do further thinking about it. With a single class, it's more like "crap, I'm being lapped" even though the team know they can't possibly compete against the fast drivers.

We will have a winners in the "fast" and the "slow" category - all I can see here is to motivate ppl to join up and drive by introducing another class. But I would personally like the slow teams to put in some effort to improve/put up a fight.

As I said, I don't have a problem with multi class endu racing - but IMO MoE should stay as it is.