When can we expect (if ever) some new tracks? And I am not referring to autox.

AFAIK nothing official has been said about extra tracks. I don't know much though, so I'll wait for someone that's been around to show up.

We are getting a update of south city in patch y i think, but we are only getting new tracks until S3.

South City might be graphically updated in Patch X (or Y). Something about a reworking of Kyoto Ring has been heard, and I wouldn't be surprised if something got done to Westhill.

I soo want tracks like GT4 has...I'm kind of getting bored with LFS..

If NOT Tracks...I would really want to see WEATHER...Otherwise lap after lap, the tire grip variance is nice, but thats it.

Quote from Fox_Mulder :

I soo want tracks like GT4 has...I'm kind of getting bored with LFS..

If NOT Tracks...I would really want to see WEATHER...Otherwise lap after lap, the tire grip variance is nice, but thats it.

Variable weather and new tracks are not really needed to spice things up. Once we have brake pad modeling, changeable track temps, changeable air temps, and much harsher damage modeling, it will be a whole new ballgame. When/if these things are put into the game, you could drive every single day on the same track, and never have the same race twice. Brake fade will come into play big time on the tighter tracks where the discs don't have time to cool. Tires will wear faster and get greasy faster if the track is hot (and people will actually have to use the harder compounds, for a change). Air temps will cause changes in horsepower and will make the turbo and n/a cars run differently against one another. Also, LFS doesn't currently model marbles off the racing line either. Once better damage is implemented, races will require more restraint to bring the car home in one piece. People will have to think twice about tapping the guy in front or risk damaging their radiator. You won't be able to go 100% lap after lap without risking tapping the wall and ending your race. Strategy may require driving off of the racing line to keep cool air on the radiator. Seemingly little things can have a huge effect on races. They just need to be implemented.

Of course, that's not to say I wouldn't like to see some new cars and tracks.

I like the way you think these days

Cue-Ball... he's the original and + and kindofaguy

Stop it, guys. You're making me blush.

All that extra variable stuff is great, but the issue with brake temperatures is that in order to take full advantage of it you'd need force feedback pedals (anybody make those???). Brake fade would be a tricky beast to tackle since the only indication you would have of overheated brakes is with the car's stopping distance. As opposed to in a real car where fluid fade is represented by a mushy pedal and pad fade is represented by the increase in pedal pressure required to slow the car.

IMO brake temps are best left alone, unless somebody comes up with a really clever way to incorporate the sensation of cooked brakes to the driver.

Just like there is no point having tyre temps until there is way of touching the tyres - you're only going to know they've lost grip when you run wide... oh, we have that and everyone copes.

Might as well not have damage until we can be hurt slightly by it because the first you'll know is when the car snaps left under braking without much warning and you crash... oh, we have that and everyone copes.

I say +1x10^32648 for brake temps and the associated problems.

I deffo want brake temps in ASAP to pwn all those left-footed brakers.

That's not true at all. There are several ways to feel out the tires...

1. Obvious visual clues as the car is actually turning
2. Force feedback
3. Tire noise

Damage can easily be represented through gauges, obvious vehicle behavior, or sounds.

With brake issues all you get are subtle visual clues that don't make themselves known until it's far too late to do anything about it.



I'm not saying brake temps are a bad idea, so you don't need to take a sarcastic tone. It obviously has it's place in a simulator since brake temperatures are very important to anybody on a race track. What I'm saying is that it will be no small challenge to give the player adequate feedback on what his brakes are doing.

There are several was to feel the brakes...

1. Obvious visual clues the car is braking/not understeering
2. Tyre/Brake noise (cold brakes squeal more)

Brake temps can also easily be represented through gauges and obvious vehicle behaviour, or sounds.

All you know about tyre issues are subtle visual clues that don't make themselves known until it's too late to do anything about them.

Okay, so that last bit is wrong, but so is your version on brakes. You don't think one corner brakes are fine and the next they are nothing??? They don't boil instantly, but you will notice a gradual deterioration of your braking performance. Easy.

Quote from Mykl :

Damage can easily be represented through gauges, obvious vehicle behavior, or sounds.

With brake issues all you get are subtle visual clues that don't make themselves known until it's far too late to do anything about it.

Well, I'm pretty confident that when it's implemented there will be an optional display, probably incorporated into the F9 readout somehow. It's not like your brakes are going to be so suddenly affected under normal race conditions that you will lose the car with no warning at all. More like.. "Gee, I've been having to brake 50m earlier than normal, perhaps I'll see how the brake are doing. GAK, they're hot!"

edit: pwnd by the infamous Tristan

Marbles, weather and brake fade..sigh, one of those dreamy moments again.

Quote from tristancliffe :

There are several was to feel the brakes...

1. Obvious visual clues the car is braking/not understeering
2. Tyre/Brake noise (cold brakes squeal more)

Brake temps can also easily be represented through gauges and obvious vehicle behaviour, or sounds.

All you know about tyre issues are subtle visual clues that don't make themselves known until it's too late to do anything about them.

Okay, so that last bit is wrong, but so is your version on brakes. You don't think one corner brakes are fine and the next they are nothing??? They don't boil instantly, but you will notice a gradual deterioration of your braking performance. Easy.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's hard enough to accurately modulate the brakes with zero pedal feel as it is. Making the brakes variable from one turn to the next is only going to make it needlessly difficult.



Concerning noise... yes, cold track pads make a lot of noise. But there's no noise differentiation between overheated pads and pads at optimal temperature, typically. Obviously your fluid shouldn't make any noise at all.

Quote from Mykl :

Making the brakes variable from one turn to the next is only going to make it needlessly difficult.

Why would it be that variable from turn to turn ?
I would think moderate brake heating would be applied in a linear fashion,
while the extreme situations would be more exponential.

It would be more a case of over using your brakes, having them fade, and
having less brake available until they cool off.
The tires don't change from one turn to the next (until you are at the extreme) - they get hot and you know you're losing traction, so you compensate. If you continue pushing them, they go off.

I don't agree that FF brake pedal is the determining factor in whether brake fade can be incorporated.

I suppose it depends on more variables than I care to bring into the discussion. Since this is a racing game I guess it could be assumed that the mild pad options would only be utilized by the autocrossers who need full brake power right off the line. In my personal experience these pads tend to be quite unpredictable when exposed to open track abuse... obviously so, since they're made for much lower temps.

I concede that proper track pads (assuming proper hardware is in place) matched to the level of grip the car is able to sustain and the power output of the engine are actually difficult to overheat and generally need to be abused to get them to that point.

It will be nice to throw the "cold brakes" hitch in to make race starts even more interesting.

how long ago was it when the new tracks arived aka westhill ETC?

Quote from Fox_Mulder :

When can we expect (if ever) some new tracks? And I am not referring to autox.

Just FYI: There are 14 tracks you've never raced on, online at least. And numerous others you've barely touched.

Quote from Jimmy_Lemon :

how long ago was it when the new tracks arived aka westhill ETC?

June 2005 I think. They came with S2.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Just FYI: There are 14 tracks you've never raced on, online at least. And numerous others you've barely touched.

But you can't expect all tracks to appeal to all people. Guys who like South City and the road cars might be bored to tears on Aston, and people who enjoy the open wheelers might have no interest at all in running the rallycross tracks.

More steak please...hold the asparagus.

On a street car with a stock brake system, the brakes can very well go away from one corner to the next. It happens plenty at track days. Usually the cause is boiling brake fluid that causes air pockets in the lines. You push the pedal to the floor and you get nothing.

But, Like Mykl says, with a car that is properly setup for racing with super high temp capable fluid and pads, you should only see fading over time as things get too hot.

If you watch racing at all though, you do see most drivers reach over and tap the brake with their left foot while going down the straight, especially a long straight with a tight corner at the end. They are checking for a soft pedal and pumping up the pressure. Do you think they would do that if brakes didn't just go away from one corner to the next? It doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen. (Or you can have a brake disk explode on you like happened to Johnny O at Sebring in the Corvette a few years ago)

I do want to see brake heat modeling. I think we can use sufficient visual indicators (the ones that Tristian normally hates, but seems to be in favor of in this case ) in the interface that we can manage the system.

Quote from Hallen :

If you watch racing at all though, you do see most drivers reach over and tap the brake with their left foot while going down the straight, especially a long straight with a tight corner at the end. They are checking for a soft pedal and pumping up the pressure. Do you think they would do that if brakes didn't just go away from one corner to the next?

Yes

My understanding is that the brake tapping you referred to is due to pad knockback:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showpo ... =2150268&postcount=55

edit: much more on the topic, since the link in the original thread is wrong... 2.5 yrs later
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml

edit: besides, what good would that do when you're approaching a braking zone at high speed - other than to seat the pads? If your pedal was mush and brakes shot, all it would do is scare the poop out of you before you met the wall

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I like the way you think these days

says one Ball to another maybe they're one and the same? :P

I'm strongly for brake fade (with tyre-like F9 indicators) and certainly for track marbles & dynamic rubber lines (when added with rain would make them slippery). But don't you think that this is a bit off-topic?

As much as I enjoy the high fidelity physics modelling, I do yearn for more tracks and I'm often jealous of rFactor EVEN THOUGH I'm well aware that the driving is naff in comparison.

Don't you think we could actually get real life tracks in LFS without straying from the fictional/abstract feel for the game? There are many racing sims/games out there that have both fictional and real tracks. Why can't LFS be the same? A real F1 GP track complete with its shorter variations would be awesome.