Anyone know what the hell these are?

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39045

Wiki ftw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashpot

Quote from Bob Smith :

Wiki ftw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashpot

"A dashpot is a mechanical device, a damper which resists motion via viscous friction. The resulting force is proportional to the velocity, but acts in the opposite direction, slowing the motion and absorbing energy. It is commonly used in conjunction with a spring (which acts to resist displacement). The diagram symbol for a dashpot is"

Sorry but how does that relate to linear and Rotary dampers? Please explain as there seems to be no mention of the terms rotary or linear in this text.

Please now go back to that link and read the very next sentence, under the heading "Types".

And then maybe also the next paragraph under "Applications" where it mentions use inside car shock absorbers.

"Two common types of dashpots exist - linear and rotary. Linear dashpots are generally specified by stroke (amount of linear displacement) and damping coefficient (force per velocity). Rotary dashpots will have damping coeffients in torque per angular velocity."

I'm still none the wiser lol.

Does this mean that Toyota were using some kind of dampers that didn't compress like a linear damper but actually rotated or something. Sorry but I'm trying to understand how these rotary dampers are used on the rear suspension of an F1 car.

Suzuki TL1000 was the first (and only I believe) motorbike to have rotary dampers, needless to say, they didn't work very well.

I'd imagine the springs are still compressing linearly, rather the path the fluid is travelling inside the damper is in a rotary motion through the dashpot, through use of shape between two fluid sections. Or something to that affect, I appreciate that was probably a very poor explanation.

http://www.sachs-race-engineer ... medien/media337/33723.pdf

Yes, it's a linear damper coiled up on itself. Not sure of the advantages other than perhaps packaging, as I've never read much about the internals or taken one to bits.

The spring(s) at the rear are operated separately, so this unit doesn't also contain the spring (although it MIGHT contain a helper spring)

Aaah - it all become clear - thanks a lot guys.

I would have thought having the things coiled up like that would result in bad overheating problems and damper fade.

Quote from danowat :

Suzuki TL1000 was the first (and only I believe) motorbike to have rotary dampers, needless to say, they didn't work very well.

Yes I had heard that that and the TL1000R had real handling problems.

Quote from tristancliffe :

http://www.sachs-race-engineer ... medien/media337/33723.pdf

Yes, it's a linear damper coiled up on itself. Not sure of the advantages other than perhaps packaging, as I've never read much about the internals or taken one to bits.

The spring(s) at the rear are operated separately, so this unit doesn't also contain the spring (although it MIGHT contain a helper spring)

Wow, saw that quite a while ago. Brings back some good memories.

Well, as you link says, it's just a pakaging advantage. The bad news is that external adjustability isn't possible, but in F-1 aero >>> fine suspension settings. Use of software such as Lapsim and all sorts of simulations also make adjustability rather redundant though. Removing weight from all the right places (like up high where the dampers are) helps too. Granted, it's all a matter of grams, but in F-1 where engineers work WAY overtime just to gain miliseconds of lap time, every bit helps.

Without all the space and mechanical monkey motion required to transform rotary motion back to linear motion, the weight savings are very substantial in F-1 terms.

In short, main advantage is all packaging. If you want something you could fine tune instantly on the track, forget it. They're bespoke and even more expensive then the already astronomically priced "normal" F-1 linear dampers.

McLaren has recently chose KONI as their damper supplier, and although their dampers don't offer this fancy packaging advantage (they're normal high pressure monotubes), they offer way superior mechanical performance. It's a revolutionary new technology for racing dampers, known as FSD (frequency selective damping). Basically changes damping force and velocity vs. force coefficient according to both velocity and frequency. It's as close to ideal as passive dampers can for now.