Hi Render-frienders,

I've grabbed the excellent scenes from http://www.morrowdesigns.eu/downloads.php?cat_id=1 and rendered my car no problem. However, I can't seem to change the background, eg: add a photo backdrop or somesuch..

I've read the excellent tutorials and downloaded the AVI from the forum, but they just use a plain white background.

Googling for answers led me down the path of "simply" choose Rendering from the menu, then Environment, and specifying the Environment Map as a jpg image, but when it comes to render time.. nothing. Just plain ol' white again.

I have tried (honest) to help myself, but now i'm stuck.
Can anyone point me in the right direction..?

cheers,
Sweeney
My 1st Render

1. Choose rendering - environment map.
2. In the environment dialogue box you can just drag a map onto the environment map button or you can browse for one by clicking on the button and using the browser.
3. Press hotkey ALT-B. Then in the viewport background dialogue box check use environment background (important step) and Display Background (very important step). Then click on OK.

4. Now Render your scene.

*You may need to move your objects around the scene a bit to match the background, depending on what you have chosen.

What I've done in the past is replaced the brazil CSG server with a jpg image I want to use as the background for the whole scene. Just load a bitmap image into one of the material editors slots, then drag it onto the CSG server button in the brazil renderer section.

If you use Gunn's method I think you'll need to disable the brazil ground plane.

Thanks for the speedy replies chaps. I'm quite literally half way there using Gunn's method... Render 2

Quote from Davo :

If you use Gunn's method I think you'll need to disable the brazil ground plane.

So, my next question is... how do I disable the ground plane ?!

can you render with ps7? or have to have some other rendering program?

Check the renderer properties for CSG server under brazil. Here's a basic render showing the differences betwen the two methods. Top is using the ground plane, bottom environment.

Scooby: renders are done using 3dstudio max.

thats what i figured...i downloaded it one time but all i got was the trial do you guys pay for it? or use the little buddy thing that you get it for free?

Quote from Davo :

Here's a basic render showing the differences betwen the two methods. Top is using the ground plane, bottom environment.

Wow, what a difference! - thanks for taking the time out to put that screen grab together, i'll give it a go and let you know my results!

Davo,

I've tried, gone back, checked your screen shot, tried again, checked again, etc.. I just can't get it to allow me to drag/drop the bitmap onto the Ground Plane Material button - I just get the back rectangle with the 'no-way' icon.

I've attached my screengrab, so hopefully you can spot something obvious and let me know!

cheers,
Sweeney

have u tried using the default scan thingy?

My screenshot is a bit missleading. You create a brazil basic material first then in the diffuse slot you load up the bitmap. Then it will allow you to drag that material into the csg server.

just a little FYI (i haven't read any of this yet) is that when you do this, make sure you also are using an HDRI, or have an reflection bitmap in the reflection slots, otherwise the "reflections" on the materials, will actually just be see-through (as you can tell on davo's render)

its just something it does... and thats the only way to stop it

Quote from sweeney :

Hi Render-frienders,

I've grabbed the excellent scenes from http://www.morrowdesigns.eu/downloads.php?cat_id=1 and rendered my car no problem. However, I can't seem to change the background, eg: add a photo backdrop or somesuch..

I've read the excellent tutorials and downloaded the AVI from the forum, but they just use a plain white background.

Googling for answers led me down the path of "simply" choose Rendering from the menu, then Environment, and specifying the Environment Map as a jpg image, but when it comes to render time.. nothing. Just plain ol' white again.

I have tried (honest) to help myself, but now i'm stuck.
Can anyone point me in the right direction..?

cheers,
Sweeney
My 1st Render

Easier way. Take the render you have done, cut the car out in PS, and add a backdrop, then put the car on the top layer. Its not that hard really.

Quote from [Velocity] :

Easier way. Take the render you have done, cut the car out in PS, and add a backdrop, then put the car on the top layer. Its not that hard really.

That would look crap imo. And it's not even easier or quicker.

Yay, finally managed to render the background in my scene!
Ok, it's not perfect, lighting is off, car isn't in perspective, but it's close enough for me!

I've written some step-by-step instructions (in the style of Ian.H's help file included with the original scenes), so should anyone else come across this 'simple' problem of adding a background, here's how I did it (with the help of Davo and Gunn - and XCNuse, i'm sure what you're saying is spot on, but I haven't gotten that far in the book yet.. )


How do I add a background to the scene?
---------------------------------------
- Press M to bring up the Material Editor.
- From the Multi/Sub-Object Basic Parameters, click on the button:

Add

- Scroll to the bottom of the Sub-Materials list to select the new 'Material #0'
- From the Blinn Basic Parameters menu:
- Next to the 'Diffuse' colour, click on the small, blank square button.
- Select 'Bitmap' from the list and browse to your background file.
- From the Coordinates menu:
- Select Environ, Mapping: Screen

- Press F10 to bring up the rendering window
- Click on the 'Renderer' tab and find 'Brazil: CSG Server' options
- Enable the [/] Material option and note there is a 'None' button next to it

- From the Material Editor, drag the 'Standard' button next to 'Material #0'
- To the Renderer Window 'None' button as previously mentioned
- Select 'Instance' and press OK

How can I see the background in my scene?
-----------------------------------------
- Press ALT+B to bring up the Viewport Background Editor
- Click 'Files' and browse to your background file.
- Select the [/] Display Background check box and press OK

You can now use the cameras in the bottom right hand corner
to try and put your car into perspective. Then, once done...

- Press F10 to bring up the rendering window (if not already there)
- Hit the Render button and make a coffee =)

Nice work and instructions.

Quote from sweeney :

Yay, finally managed to render the background in my scene!
Ok, it's not perfect, lighting is off, car isn't in perspective, but it's close enough for me!

I've written some step-by-step instructions (in the style of Ian.H's help file included with the original scenes), so should anyone else come across this 'simple' problem of adding a background, here's how I did it (with the help of Davo and Gunn - and XCNuse, i'm sure what you're saying is spot on, but I haven't gotten that far in the book yet.. )

Unfortunately you still have the reflection issue to sort out. If you look carefully, your reflection is reflecting the 'screen' setting of the environment map, which makes your car look like transparent.

samyip can you explain how to sort that out? No matter what I do the issue remains. It's not that visible in my renders to worry about it, but how do you fix it?

Quote from Davo :

samyip can you explain how to sort that out? No matter what I do the issue remains. It's not that visible in my renders to worry about it, but how do you fix it?

There are many ways to do this. One quick fix is go to your car's raytrace material, there should be a slot 'environment', put the same background map in that slot, and use Env. mapping - 'sphererical environment' instead of 'screen'. When you hit render, your car's reflection should look more conviencing. (one problem with that is you'll find the road is not going to reflect correctly to the car.) What you will need to do is create a plane under the car as ground and use camera mapping to map the plane, in that way, the car will pick up the road reflection in more accurate way. I have answer these to someone in the forum before, but I can't remember where, may be in '3d LFS renders'

So basically theres no easy fix without going and making a new scene with more image planes. Guess this is just a quick and dirty way of making a render with a background that looks ok until closer inspection.

Quote from Davo :

So basically theres no easy fix without going and making a new scene with more image planes. Guess this is just a quick and dirty way of making a render with a background that looks ok until closer inspection.

It is all depend on what level of standard you want your render to be.
here is the link I mentioned this problem before.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=206407#post206407
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=206680#post206680

as far as the reflections being "see-through" there are 2 ways you can do this

A: if you have Vray/brazil there is the environment map, which is seperate from the 3dsmax render background environment somewhere in the render settings
B: in the materials, put your "HDRI" or whatever in the reflections slot (for the materials which are shiny that you're using)

Looking at your previous post the red ball still doesn't look right in the brazil test, DSR certainly looks better in that regard. Is the chrome ball using the invisble ground plane method? It certainly looks a lot better.

I've tried the environment mapping and HDRI approach and it only affects the top half of the render above the horizon, the sides and bottom still look transparent on reflections so that's a no go unless I'm doing soemthing wrong, but how many envirtonment slots can there be under the material? I'm not using anything in the default 3dsmax environment setting.

hm.. i would have figured that would have worked, i guess not

if you want to do it the 2nd way of what i said with putting the HDRI in the material, they have 1 slot (but.. you can also use blend and whatnot).. do you really need 2 reflections on a car? if so.. what 2 things would there be to reflect ?

Quote from Davo :

Looking at your previous post the red ball still doesn't look right in the brazil test, DSR certainly looks better in that regard. Is the chrome ball using the invisble ground plane method? It certainly looks a lot better.

I've tried the environment mapping and HDRI approach and it only affects the top half of the render above the horizon, the sides and bottom still look transparent on reflections so that's a no go unless I'm doing soemthing wrong, but how many envirtonment slots can there be under the material? I'm not using anything in the default 3dsmax environment setting.

The Brazil test not looking right is because the lighting and the reflection map image that still look too identical to the background image, ideally you should use a different angle of the same image.
Both Brazil, DSR and the chrome ball were using the invisible ground plane method. They were just something I quickly put together to show the theory. Once you have got this idea in mind, I am sure you can improve it yourself to achieve a better reflection.
If you look at the chrome ball, you will see the shadow of the ball is actually reflected back on the ball with the help of invisible ground plane. which is some subtle details that you won't get by just applying an environment - sphereical map.