INTELLIGENT POSTS ONLY, PLEASE!

Oval may seem simple to the onlooker or the person cruising around it on their own, but it is much harder than you may think.

When you drive on an oval on your own, there are many different lines you can take that may never end up being fast. There is always one line that is fast, and it is usually pretty hard to find unless you have a lot of experience on the oval. Plus, the line you take into corners on an oval is much more aggressive than you would see on a road course since a road course tends to force racers wide at the entrance and exit while on an oval it is a much tighter line.

And when you add in other racers who are all trying to do the same thing you are lap after lap and fighting for the position you are in lap after lap, it can become EXTREMELY challenging. It is much tighter than you would see on a road course, not to say this makes road course is easy. Oval is a specialized type of racing that not anyone can jump in and be good at right away.

The source of this information is not completely myself. It is a condensed compilation of notes I took from a television show comparing oval racing and road course racing on the SPEED Channel (United States station dedicated to motorsports).

If you would like to test this, I and I am sure any other oval racer would be happy to oblige you in a race or two on the oval. Because it is easy to talk, let's see if you can do.



Sidenote: Before anyone jumps to any conclusions, just remember that there is hardly ANY case where an oval racer comes onto the forum and claims that they believe racing a road course is easy. Hmmmmmm.......maybe some of you should take heed and practice this courtesy yourselves. Many of the oval racers enjoy racing on road courses as well, and are quite good.

Starting an argument over oval racing is not an intelligent thing to do- it's annoying and pointless. There have been countless arguments about it and there will be arguments until racing ends. They don't make any progress and never will. If anything, this seems more like a rant from you.

Oval racing isn't my thing. I think it's very boring to watch and do. That said, I don't think it takes no skill. I tend to dislike oval racing more on politics and the people who watch it(NASCAR fans, hicks) than the racing itself.

That said, I'll sum up the argument:

Pro-oval: OMFG WE ARE HAVING FUN AND ARE SKILLED
Anti-oval: OMFG NO YOU ARE NOT!
Pro-oval: Are too!
Anti-oval: Are not!
Pro-oval: Are too!
Anti-oval: Are not!
Pro-oval: Are too!
Anti-oval: Are not!
...
Rinse and repeat for a few pages and I think you'll have your "argument."

Quote from luftrofl :

Starting an argument over oval racing is not an intelligent thing to do- it's annoying and pointless. There have been countless arguments about it and there will be arguments until racing ends. They don't make any progress and never will. If anything, this seems more like a rant from you.

Oval racing isn't my thing. I think it's very boring to watch and do. That said, I don't think it takes no skill. I tend to dislike oval racing more on politics and the people who watch it(NASCAR fans, hicks) than the racing itself.

That said, I'll sum up the argument:

Pro-oval: OMFG WE ARE HAVING FUN AND ARE SKILLED
Anti-oval: OMFG NO YOU ARE NOT!
Pro-oval: Are too!
Anti-oval: Are not!
Pro-oval: Are too!
Anti-oval: Are not!
Pro-oval: Are too!
Anti-oval: Are not!
...
Rinse and repeat for a few pages and I think you'll have your "argument."

I did not actually mean to put argument in the title. I will have admins change if possible.

Quote from red_wing_2121 :

INTELLIGENT POSTS ONLY, PLEASE!

A great way to start a grown-up discussion.

Why not walk into a bank and shout, as loud as you can:
"EVERYBODY REMAIN CALM I AM NOT GOING TO ROB YOU I'M JUST ACTIVATING MY NEW ATM CARD"?

Anyway, I did quite a bit of oval racing when the FO8 was first released and soon realised some things.

First: oval racing is a very skillful form of racing, and just because you don't have to slow down very much (or at all) it doesn't mean you don't need to be alert or think about what you're doing constantly. You need to always know where you are in relation to everyone else as fields tend to stick pretty close. In some ways you need to be more alert to other drivers than on other kinds of circuit because there's nearly always someone right behind you or right next to you.

Second: because you need to be on the ball and be pretty alert to be a good oval racer, racing on the oval in LFS pickup races is not a good idea if you're the kind of guy who likes to finish the majority of his races in one piece. The "ready, set, go, SMASH omfg RESTART" factor played a big part there.

Third: for me, the thrill of flooring it endlessly and altering my lines by fractions of a degree each lap, trying to get a tiny bit quicker, died off quite quickly. I learned to drive in a hilly part of the world and I love corners. The more the better. Oval racing is a great challenge for a person's concentration and alertness but for me, as a test of pure driving skill, nothing beats a bunch of corners mixed with a bunch of big straights.

Whatever floats your boat. You don't need to justify the ways in which you choose to have fun to others. By the same token, you can't expect others to agree with you. To each their own. The fact that professional oval racing exists and that there are specialized oval racing series and tracks should be enough to convince any reasonable person that oval racing has its place. Whether others consider it a lesser form of racing than track racing shouldn't really matter, should it? All that matters is whether you have fun.

^basically

Hey Red_Wing it's me (EAGLE)IndyMike

While I think its cool you started this thread it's no known secret that a majority of LFS is geared towards road racing therefore a majority of the support will be anti-oval pro-roadracing here.

I enjoy the oval on LFS from time to time. The initial thrill dwindled and I went to road course racing and have enjoyed it and its 'technical' challenge it presents which simply put are not present on the SS tri-oval which KY1 is.

I fully understand and appreciate your effort for more support of this oval because to a person who has never driven it it is very challenging and deceptively difficult to win at. Esentially w/ the proper set(fuel amount) and proper line most will hit 31.60's solo fairly easy w/ some practice. The real skill and challenge comes in getting in the mid to low .50's on your own on a consistent lap to lap basis and then getting the ability to hotlap on a quali run in the .40's. If one can manage not to get noobed (because let's face it prior to FM's noob filter the oval was plagued by them.) then you can have some very rewarding close racing where strategy comes into play much more.

As a spectator sport Oval racing dominates simply because of the closeness and spectator ability to see more of the track if not the whole one on short tracks such as Bristol.

Now moving deeper into oval racing outside of lfs.
I have always enjoyed oval racing for the focus and strategy involved so I purchased nr2003 (nascar racing 2003). This opened my eyes to the amount of not only focus and strategy but also Techincal ability needed such as on a track like Phoenix where you can be going 3 or 4 wide into turns braking and having to hold your line. This I can assure IS equally technically chanllenging to any type of road course racing. The other tracks such as this call for Throttle control, Braking balance, proper steering input and awareness.


So bottom line do what you like and I don't expect any of you to suddenly say 'wow I gotta race oval now'....you either like it or hate it....it's ultimately up to you.

My bottom line would be that any racer who want's to be well rounded should understand the disciplines of both.

Regards,
(EAGLE)IndyMike

Sorry, but what was the point of this thread? "Oval and Road racing is slightly different. You have different lines in corners to road racing, where every corner requires the same line and is therefore easy".

Maybe I just miss the point when people say ovalling is really really hard and exciting and different and not even slightly boring being at full throttle all the time not worrying about braking, wet weather, accidents (because they just give you full course yellows or kick you to spectate immediately) etc.

I'll get my coat then...

Quote from tristancliffe :

This post has officially been deemed inteliigent by 36 independent government organisations. Any protests against it's validity as intelligent should be taken up with the aforementioned organisations (which wish to remain nameless).

Sorry, but what was the point of this thread? "Oval and Road racing is slightly different. You have different lines in corners to road racing, where every corner requires the same line and is therefore easy".

Maybe I just miss the point when people say ovalling is really really hard and exciting and different and not even slightly boring being at full throttle all the time not worrying about braking, wet weather, accidents (because they just give you full course yellows or kick you to spectate immediately) etc.

I'll get my coat then...

The point of this thread is to see if there are any somewhat intelligent points that and anti-oval racer can make about oval. I have only seen the standard "idiots going in circles" basically.

And by putting that "Intelligent posts only, please" at the top, I was hoping to weed out at least SOME of the stupid posts that would simply say "oval is easy" or whatever.

By the way, there is no need for sarcasm from any of you. That is just a sign of immaturity from you or whomever posts something like that.

Quote from mike11973 :

As a spectator sport Oval racing dominates

us != world

This post has officially been deemed intelligent by 42 independent government organisations. Any protests against it's validity as intelligent should be taken up with the aforementioned organisations (which wish to remain nameless).

Quote from red_wing_2121 :

INTELLIGENT POSTS ONLY, PLEASE!

off to a bad start

Quote :

Oval may seem simple to the onlooker or the person cruising around it on their own, but it is much harder than you may think.

uh huh

Quote :

When you drive on an oval on your own, there are many different lines you can take that may never end up being fast.

just like on a track that has corners

Quote :

There is always one line that is fast, and it is usually pretty hard to find unless you have a lot of experience on the oval.

hey still like on a track that actually has corners

Quote :

Plus, the line you take into corners on an oval is much more aggressive than you would see on a road course since a road course tends to force racers wide at the entrance and exit while on an oval it is a much tighter line.

so basically what youre saying is that if you mess up your line on the oval you have tons of tarmac to go whereas on a track going wide means hitting the grass and spinning right ?

Quote :

And when you add in other racers who are all trying to do the same thing you are lap after lap and fighting for the position you are in lap after lap, it can become EXTREMELY challenging.

if cruise control is challenging to you maybe yes

Quote :

It is much tighter than you would see on a road course

solely depends on who youre racing with

Quote :

Oval is a specialized type of racing that not anyone can jump in and be good at right away.

one word ... montoya

Quote :

The source of this information is not completely myself. It is a condensed compilation of notes I took from a television show comparing oval racing and road course racing on the SPEED Channel (United States station dedicated to motorsports).

oh an american channel ... now that show is certainly completely unbiased

erm, F1's Viewership>NASCAR's Viewership

I used to be a bit of an oval-whore, but for me racing on a proper track i harder and more exciting

I compete in the STCC, i practice my back-side off (ie 500+ laps for each track), and usually get around in the top 5-ish

They did an oval race and i won with about 150 laps practice - yes, overtaking was hard and ovaling in a TBO was harder than i expected, but harder than any track on the calendar? no way

Can't we just have an oval competition with LFS for and against oval users once and for all? I suggest loading up NR2003, getting online together, and have a race at Darlington. If you don't have NR2003, burn it from someone. Screw them, NR2003 is no longer in production and they don't make any cash from the $200 price tags on ebay anyways. Burn a copy!

Let's race!

Quote from mrodgers :

Screw them, NR2003 is no longer in production and they don't make any cash from the $200 price tags on ebay anyways.

wait WHAT ?
i think ill start buying them on german ebay for ~10€ and sell them on us ebay for 200$ then

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike11973
As a spectator sport Oval racing dominates

us != world

This post has officially been deemed intelligent by 42 independent government organisations. Any protests against it's validity as intelligent should be taken up with the aforementioned organisations (which wish to remain nameless).

Yeah, oval does not dominate as spectator sport. I agree.



Quote:
Originally Posted by red_wing_2121
INTELLIGENT POSTS ONLY, PLEASE!

off to a bad start

Tried, but apparently noone likes trying to be intelligent.


Quote:
Oval may seem simple to the onlooker or the person cruising around it on their own, but it is much harder than you may think.
uh huh


Yep!

Quote:
When you drive on an oval on your own, there are many different lines you can take that may never end up being fast.
just like on a track that has corners

What I am saying is that oval is easier to drive around casually than a road course.


Quote:
There is always one line that is fast, and it is usually pretty hard to find unless you have a lot of experience on the oval.
hey still like on a track that actually has corners

A road course may have several variances on a line and all can be fast. Oval pretty much has one.


Quote:
Plus, the line you take into corners on an oval is much more aggressive than you would see on a road course since a road course tends to force racers wide at the entrance and exit while on an oval it is a much tighter line.
so basically what youre saying is that if you mess up your line on the oval you have tons of tarmac to go whereas on a track going wide means hitting the grass and spinning right ?


No, just that the approach to the corner is tighter and the exit from corner is tighter. But you still move out to the walls, which you could hit and become damaged. Wall is main challenge in oval, grass is main challenge in road course (Hmmm).



Quote:
And when you add in other racers who are all trying to do the same thing you are lap after lap and fighting for the position you are in lap after lap, it can become EXTREMELY challenging.
if cruise control is challenging to you maybe yes

Um, it is not all single file if that is what you are thinking. We are always swapping positions and moving around in very tight quarters. Dealing with traffic on the oval is MUCH more challenging than what you may deal with on a road course. Most road course racing on LFS seems to be pretty much single file after about 2 laps or so. There is traffic to deal with during whole race on oval.


Quote:
It is much tighter than you would see on a road course
solely depends on who youre racing with

Well, if you see who races on teh server I am on, you will see that it is always tight racing.


Quote:
Oval is a specialized type of racing that not anyone can jump in and be good at right away.
one word ... montoya.

Um, he is not actually that good yet. He is kinda crappy at this point.


Quote:
The source of this information is not completely myself. It is a condensed compilation of notes I took from a television show comparing oval racing and road course racing on the SPEED Channel (United States station dedicated to motorsports).
oh an american channel ... now that show is certainly completely unbiased

The hosts of the show is a road course racer himself. So I think that there is no bias toward oval. Besides, Americans enjoy more than just oval.

Quote from Shotglass :

wait WHAT ?
i think ill start buying them on german ebay for ~10€ and sell them on us ebay for 200$ then

Well, not so long ago it was going for $150-200 bids on ebay. I just searched and only see 4 items without current bids now.

Quote from mrodgers :

Well, not so long ago it was going for $150-200 bids on ebay. I just searched and only see 4 items without current bids now.

all of which are at around the 90-100$ mark
that easily makes something in the 400-500% profit range

This post has officially been deemed intelligent by 156 independent government organisations. Any protests against it's validity as intelligent should be taken up with the aforementioned organisations (which wish to remain nameless).

Quote from red_wing_2121 :

Tried, but apparently noone likes trying to be intelligent.

because its a stupid subject

Quote :

What I am saying is that oval is easier to drive around casually than a road course.

for once we agree

Quote :

A road course may have several variances on a line and all can be fast. Oval pretty much has one.

so does a proper track ... thats why its called the _ideal_ line in german

Quote :

No, just that the approach to the corner is tighter and the exit from corner is tighter. But you still move out to the walls, which you could hit and become damaged. Wall is main challenge in oval, grass is main challenge in road course (Hmmm).

in that case ... sho what ? theres one line and youve got to take it ... difference is you dont have to take your foot off or bother with anything else that makes cornering challenging

Quote :

Um, it is not all single file if that is what you are thinking. We are always swapping positions and moving around in very tight quarters. Dealing with traffic on the oval is MUCH more challenging than what you may deal with on a road course. Most road course racing on LFS seems to be pretty much single file after about 2 laps or so. There is traffic to deal with during whole race on oval.

like i said earlier it solely depends on who you race with
ive spent races in lfs in which i was constantly either swapping positions or defeinding mine ... no breathing room whatsoever

Quote :

Um, he is not actually that good yet. He is kinda crappy at this point.

not quite as rubbish as he is in road racing apparently

Quote :

The hosts of the show is a road course racer himself. So I think that there is no bias toward oval. Besides, Americans enjoy more than just oval.

[/QUOTE]

yes they also enjoy long walks on the beach, the sunset and the gentle touch of an asian katoi

Oval racing in RL is an OK form of motorsport, it doesn't require the talent of proper racing but can be a fun and relatively cheap step up from banger racing. Oval racing in LFS, or any track that is flat all the way is a lot less interesting and requires very little skill and absolutely no talent.

The three big issues with oval racing in LFS are:

1) We don't have a track where one has to brake.

2) We don't have a high powered low downforce car.

3) Most importantly the public servers are shockingly badly managed with all kind of ridiculous rules, far too many bans and an overdose of LFS Lapper. Not to mention there are only a handful of people who actually have much experience with LFS on the oval servers.

@Redwing - Stop writing in big red writing, it doesn't make you look clever and learn to quote properly.

Type [-quote=name-]quote[-/quote-] (without the hyphens)

Quote from shotglass :

difference is you dont have to take your foot off or bother with anything else that makes cornering challenging

Quote from ajp71 :

Most importantly the public servers are shockingly badly managed with all kind of ridiculous rules, far too many bans and an overdose of LFS Lapper

Knowledge based on hearsay is useless. :shhh:

Quote from ajp71 :

@Redwing - Stop writing in big red writing, it doesn't make you look clever and learn to quote properly.



Type [-quote=name-]quote[-/quote-] (without the hyphens)

something for the Sadness ratings eh

on-topic, i do not step into this conversation because i made my point elsewhere and came to the conclusion that there is no conclusion. Matter of taste cant be manipulated/ stimulated in every single case.

Cheers

Quote from ajp71 :

@Redwing - Stop writing in big red writing, it doesn't make you look clever and learn to quote properly.

Type [-quote=name-]quote[-/quote-] (without the hyphens)

Copy and paste is much easier. Besides, I think it is easy to tell whom I am quoting. And the red writing is so you can tell what I typed.

Apparently it is useless to discuss something with people on a forum since it seems that most of the members are too closed-minded.

I have said it before, and I say it again: If you think oval is easy, come to the FM Oval Junkies server and try it for yourself against the best oval racers in LFS. If it is easy, then you should win easily shouldn't you

So how much Oval racing have you done m8? OK form of sport? lol why do people talk about things that have no clue about.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFXzDVzMPvQ these are 800hp 1000lbs on a 1/2 mile oval.. doesnt require talent??

Quote from ajp71 :

Oval racing in RL is an OK form of motorsport, it doesn't require the talent of proper racing but can be a fun and relatively cheap step up from banger racing. Oval racing in LFS, or any track that is flat all the way is a lot less interesting and requires very little skill and absolutely no talent.

The three big issues with oval racing in LFS are:

1) We don't have a track where one has to brake.

2) We don't have a high powered low downforce car.

3) Most importantly the public servers are shockingly badly managed with all kind of ridiculous rules, far too many bans and an overdose of LFS Lapper. Not to mention there are only a handful of people who actually have much experience with LFS on the oval servers.

^^Dirt track racing and super-speedway racing are very different ball games. Dirt track racing does require more car control but it's still only really controlling the car with the throttle at low speeds round four corners again and again, it's not that difficult and TBH any idiot can drive a dirt track car once they've got used to it. Road course racing requires far more car control and features a lot more variety and room for the unexpected than oval racing of any form. There have been several road course racers who have succeeded in oval racing after very little time (Mansell, Hill, Clark) how many oval racers have come and succeeded on proper tracks in a short space of time? Montoya is the perfect example of someone who can drive round in circles very well but is an absolute disaster when you make him turn right as well, even if you shove him in a front running car.

Quote from red_wing_2121 :

Apparently it is useless to discuss something with people on a forum since it seems that most of the members are too closed-minded.

Something tells me you really didn't start this topic to hear opinions from other people. Wanting to hear opinions should indicate you are open to those other opinions. Yet, you seem to basically want to start a discussion to make your opinion known and to call people with a different opinion from yours close minded. You seem to feel the need to "convince" other people that what you like to do is at least or maybe even harder than what other people like to do. Why? Can't you just continue to do what you like, let other people do what they like and leave it at that?

Quote from 510N3D :

Knowledge based on hearsay is useless.

what? most people know about the lapper from either Redline servers of the FM Servers, both seem to have every SINGLE feature enabled and every 2 seconds you get a message

Quote from 510N3D :

something for the Sadness ratings eh

im with AJP, i find it REALLY hard to follow who said what etc when you don't use proper quotes

Quote from mrodgers :

Can't we just have an oval competition with LFS for and against oval users once and for all?

i've been in one, it was STCC Drivers V FM Guys, Oval, TBO

Unsurprisingly (used to do a LOT of ovaling but got bored of a circle) i won, with STCC drivers taking the top ones, and FM drivers suprisingly not making many notable finishes

Quote from red_wing_2121 :

Apparently it is useless to discuss something with people on a forum since it seems that most of the members are too closed-minded.

When you have such a common argument, you make a set of points and stick to them - its not like this is new but there are no "new" arguments to this subject, just lots of flaming

Quote from red_wing_2121 :

I have said it before, and I say it again: If you think oval is easy, come to the FM Oval Junkies server and try it for yourself against the best oval racers in LFS. If it is easy, then you should win easily shouldn't you

Used to, but it took about an hour of starting from the back, being pushed into walls etc, making a load of positions and then being "n00bed" towards the back. It attracts some of the best Oval'ers, but also some of the worst drivers because it seems that the only track they can yet do is a flat out one.

Once i got near the front i'd have some battles which were fun, however i usually wouldn't win because the FM guys would stick together and bump-draft each other and pull away from the pack - no matter how quick you are theres no way to keep up, and (like you'd expect them to, its racing after all!) if you got near enough they would make it hard for you to draft them, although despite the odds i used to be able to do it.

here comes the usual barrade of lies from *certain drivers* via PM, i can just smell it

I started this thread with the intent to inform with new information I discovered recently. It was started for people to reply based on the information I presented and not quoting and making fun of "Intelligent Posts Only" or "Post approved by 42 intelligent people" and other kiddie things like that.

Why can nobody post only in reply to the info I presented to them (which was the original intent)?

I did not intend to start an argument over the road v oval debate. But I kinda figured it would happen anyway since nobody can resist. When an argument starts, however, it is hard to resist contributing to that argument. I am sorry for sontinuing on with it.

Now can we please have replys that only are in response to the information I presented and opinions on that? Flaming is for noobs!