How can they not be creating it for us? Do you really think Scavier expect to earn a living from their hobby if nobody bought and supported it? LFS is a hobby/vision that Scavier had, it has grown arms and legs and is now a product that is produced for the sim racing community.
How can they not be creating it for us? Do you really think Scavier expect to earn a living from their hobby if nobody bought and supported it? LFS is a hobby/vision that Scavier had, it has grown arms and legs and is now a product that is produced for the sim racing community.
Not quite, i mean you bought a room in his shed and paid him so he can put that money into building the shed and all you see is him finding the best way to open windows while the roof is almost nonexistent.
Hmm, I thought that was pretty sorted in GTR2, but it's probably 4 months since I played it last, I'd have to re-check.
F1C had this problem, rFactor has inherited this problem and it's _really_ annoying! How countersteering when you've only just overstepped the boundaries can increase the rate of the spin baffles the hell out of me.. if it wasn't such a serious flaw, I'd almost find it funny
Regards,
Ian
I don't know about you people, but I just enjoy racing, there's a reason I have played LFS more than any other game I have ever played, it is simply fun, and continues to be that for me. So here's to another year of great developments and racing action!
Wow..I grew up on patch U (figuratively speaking )
Anyways, well, it's great that we can still celebrate it, even if i had only had the demo experience
)Anyways, well, it's great that we can still celebrate it, even if i had only had the demo experience
Ian makes very good and valid points. The only hard part is: Typing them here for fear that people that are so BLIND to how true Ian's comments are. LFS hasn't been all that it is cracked up to be for the past year and a half, it really hasn't gone leaps and bounds ahead of other sims that are rapidly surpassing this game. Slowly deteriorating as we speak, because we haven't had any sufficient content from Eric.
Surely, if we wait long enough we will get something, but we've never had to wait a year :zombie: or even longer...
Yes the devs run at their own pace, but you can't blow off Ian's comments as if he is completely pulling these feelings out of nowhere as if he has no reasoning for it. Scawen works his butt off for trying to get the game frequently updated, and Victor has a rough time handling a lot of web situations... but the real downfall is wondering where Eric is, or any updates from him.
Some people here do see that LFS has lost its appeal, and indeed it is true for most of us. It can be quite boring online when you keep using the same things over and over again, and there is nothing new to try. STCC kind of keeps the online play alive a little bit, but that's all we have to live on these days. And we get a lot of new players coming in to play LFS who believe this game is always flowing in with new updates (the kind of reply people get in "Should I buy S2" threads). Those updates aren't as fast as they once were, but yeah, we still get some from Scawen more than anything else. But it is those players that haven't been around as long as others such as Ian and myself... so you get different kind of attitudes for how the development has changed with LFS over the past 2 years or so. It has been 4 years since I started playing S1, that is a long time to stick around and eventually get tired of some things and see the big picture.
And note: I have no problem with how LFS currently feels, I could play it in its current state and it feels fine for the driving aspect. It is just the visual aspect (cars & tracks) that really bother me because either they need to be updated (detail on cars is very low), too many boring configs, lack of some new tracks, could do with any kind of new car, etc. It is the only reason that makes me feel LFS as being 'dated'. Everything else is just fine, and I could care less with how the physics feel at this point, it's all about the looks at this point in time, and that has gone nowhere. The BF1 is just a blueprint traced unfinished model, hardly any effort other than the cockpit/steering wheel.
Surely, if we wait long enough we will get something, but we've never had to wait a year :zombie: or even longer...
Yes the devs run at their own pace, but you can't blow off Ian's comments as if he is completely pulling these feelings out of nowhere as if he has no reasoning for it. Scawen works his butt off for trying to get the game frequently updated, and Victor has a rough time handling a lot of web situations... but the real downfall is wondering where Eric is, or any updates from him.
Some people here do see that LFS has lost its appeal, and indeed it is true for most of us. It can be quite boring online when you keep using the same things over and over again, and there is nothing new to try. STCC kind of keeps the online play alive a little bit, but that's all we have to live on these days. And we get a lot of new players coming in to play LFS who believe this game is always flowing in with new updates (the kind of reply people get in "Should I buy S2" threads). Those updates aren't as fast as they once were, but yeah, we still get some from Scawen more than anything else. But it is those players that haven't been around as long as others such as Ian and myself... so you get different kind of attitudes for how the development has changed with LFS over the past 2 years or so. It has been 4 years since I started playing S1, that is a long time to stick around and eventually get tired of some things and see the big picture.
And note: I have no problem with how LFS currently feels, I could play it in its current state and it feels fine for the driving aspect. It is just the visual aspect (cars & tracks) that really bother me because either they need to be updated (detail on cars is very low), too many boring configs, lack of some new tracks, could do with any kind of new car, etc. It is the only reason that makes me feel LFS as being 'dated'. Everything else is just fine, and I could care less with how the physics feel at this point, it's all about the looks at this point in time, and that has gone nowhere. The BF1 is just a blueprint traced unfinished model, hardly any effort other than the cockpit/steering wheel.
mmm...the question of time....
for an Old Fart (tm) like me, there is always the risk that I will never SEE S3, let alone get the chance to play it!...
As for S2, I am not a fanboi, but compared to all the other games/sims/etc I have played, the OVERALL favourite is LFS, not TDU because "teh gfx roolz", or NFS because "it's got teh NAWZ", but LFS because of the blend of aspects that make for an enjoyable experience.
I can take almost any race sim (with possibly the exception of GPL) and hit decent times within a few days of playing...why? because of the 'built-in' playability that software publishers need...if a game was TOO difficult, then people would be complaining too!
Why do you think that GTR/GTR2 TOCA series, the endless NFS clones are always being revamped? Its to get your money!! Maybe add a few more (different) cars...update the gfx a notch or two, but its still basically the same game, and tens of thousands of kids buy it for the PS3's, XBOX's and PC's....and the publishers get richer....
This is where LFS wins the battle hands down...we KNOW that the finished product will have cost us all £36.00, but in the meantime, yes, we are all 'beta-testers' in a way.
When it IS finished, how much of the content will have been added as a direct result of OUR input? I would hazard a guess at quite a lot!
Scavier are doing a pretty good job so far.. as somebody said earlier in this thread, who knows what Eric is working on at the moment? As for Victor, it's obvious that he isnt sitting on his butt...look at the work he is doing on making the stats easily available for anyone to use in their own apps/websites/whatever.
I can think of no other race based game that has this much COMMUNITY input.
Final Word...OK, LFS may look a bit 'dated' nowadays, but given the choice when flying London-New York....Concorde or A340??
'nuff said?
for an Old Fart (tm) like me, there is always the risk that I will never SEE S3, let alone get the chance to play it!...
As for S2, I am not a fanboi, but compared to all the other games/sims/etc I have played, the OVERALL favourite is LFS, not TDU because "teh gfx roolz", or NFS because "it's got teh NAWZ", but LFS because of the blend of aspects that make for an enjoyable experience.
I can take almost any race sim (with possibly the exception of GPL) and hit decent times within a few days of playing...why? because of the 'built-in' playability that software publishers need...if a game was TOO difficult, then people would be complaining too!
Why do you think that GTR/GTR2 TOCA series, the endless NFS clones are always being revamped? Its to get your money!! Maybe add a few more (different) cars...update the gfx a notch or two, but its still basically the same game, and tens of thousands of kids buy it for the PS3's, XBOX's and PC's....and the publishers get richer....
This is where LFS wins the battle hands down...we KNOW that the finished product will have cost us all £36.00, but in the meantime, yes, we are all 'beta-testers' in a way.
When it IS finished, how much of the content will have been added as a direct result of OUR input? I would hazard a guess at quite a lot!
Scavier are doing a pretty good job so far.. as somebody said earlier in this thread, who knows what Eric is working on at the moment? As for Victor, it's obvious that he isnt sitting on his butt...look at the work he is doing on making the stats easily available for anyone to use in their own apps/websites/whatever.
I can think of no other race based game that has this much COMMUNITY input.
Final Word...OK, LFS may look a bit 'dated' nowadays, but given the choice when flying London-New York....Concorde or A340??
'nuff said?
most of us assume scavier are working very hard on LFS, but how hard are they working really?
maybe they have something great to add to lfs that they are working on...
maybe they have something great to add to lfs that they are working on...If this thread was here 6 months ago i would have been defending lfs at all costs, but now I'm a bit disappointed already, i just hope X has some serious content to deliver.
LFS tyres have always deformed, both vertically and horizontally, for as long as I've been around. Only the effects are more noticeable and (hopefully) realisitic now (although nobody says it's perfect). Part of the reason it wasn't so noticeable before was that everyone used to run maximum tyres pressures (due to funky tyre physics).
I think patch X should be a nice improvement but from what I've read, won't include lots of the stuff that people are hoping for, that seems to be planned for patch Y. Fingers crossed, Y really needs to be a killer, since it should include all of Eric's work since patch T (53 weeks ago).
Fair enough Bob.. I stand corrected.. this I didn't know.. just remembered a lot of commotion about it when people noticed so thought it was a "new thing".
Shame.. I fear I may not be around for patch Y (not that anyone will care or that I'm important, heh), especially if that's another 6-9 months down the line going on current rates
Regards,
Ian
So it's probably time for me to pack up my wheel, throw out the desk extensions and go on a vacation from lfs.
Yes, if you can't wait a month or two, than farewell... or buy a "programming for dummies" and go create your own sim..
I just realized I don't play it nearly as much as I used to...
The game needs some sort of a bang..
I suggest that the atmosphere needs a bit of tuning, because it's kind of...well..the music is ok but, it's really bland.
I mean, it's just plain, it doesn't have any significant atmosphere.
Maybe something like 'EA Trax' or a menu screen that shows dynamic LFS racing in the back or something..
Speaking of which...what if I made a GIF file for the background? Could it be animated?
The game needs some sort of a bang..
I suggest that the atmosphere needs a bit of tuning, because it's kind of...well..the music is ok but, it's really bland.
I mean, it's just plain, it doesn't have any significant atmosphere.
Maybe something like 'EA Trax' or a menu screen that shows dynamic LFS racing in the back or something..
Speaking of which...what if I made a GIF file for the background? Could it be animated?
Sorry Boris, that's _the_ lamest sentence that's been contributed to this thread so far.. that's nothing more than a cop-out statement.
You're not alone, that's a very common response, the problem is, Scawen et al are paid to do this, they _have to_ deliver.. there's no choice about it.. we as paying customers have the right to express out displeasure with development progress, it isn't a case of "don't like it, do it yourself".. most people here don't claim to be professional coders, which is what Scawen did the moment he started charging for LFS (and before anyone jumps up and down, no, I'm not saying Scawen is some kind of coding hack trying to be a programmer).
Regards,
Ian
I didn't mean it as bye, i will never play this game again, what i meant was that i will probably just skip the patch X by spending more time in the "real" world and just pop into the forums once in a while and when patch Y comes out i will be on it again, just like i was during the winter.
Oh and BTW Boris i think you need some sleep.
Seriously, Buy S2 and give yourself a bang. Talking from the perspective view of a demo user is just useless. You don't know any real excitement after buying S2 and joining a serious league. You haven't tried most of other S1 and S2 cars yet ( I suppose that you haven't cracked LFS ).
"MONTH or two"?
Are you in fast forward or something?
All you argue is how LFS performs with physics, how it looks when the cars drive, behavior, etc. Yet you say:
Do you REALLY think that is Eric's job with how the cars have bodyroll, tire deformation, etc? That is all Scawen's work, and that IS the physics. What people are tired of in here is the lack of updated content (Eric's stuff)... that is a lot different than the frequently updated works of Scawen (eg physics, gameplay features, etc).
And what a laugh it is to hear you say the usual "go make your own sim" phrase. How ignorant can you be? This isn't about who is better than our 'beloved devs', it is about how they have failed to meet our expectations based on what they've done from the get-go when development was on a charge. One thing is for sure, this community is definitely capable of making it's own content to improve the game in much shorter time then Eric. Hell... Boris, you've made your own addons for the game, don't you feel that the time invested by Eric is a bit slow? You and I love to do graphic design, but it is clear when someone has designer's block and cannot get anything done with a job.
I think it was 2 years ago that XCNuse started playing around with 3D modelling, and look at what he is creating now. He could make 10 nearly-finished car models in the same time it takes for us to wait for a new steering wheel in the FO8 from Eric. If one person in the community can pump out content on their own, then they are obviously driven by what they want to achieve. I felt Eric was very involved with creating new content all the time back then, because it showed in all the creations he was releasing. But since nothing has really ever come of him other then a traced BF1 that is still unfinished, what are we to expect? How should we feel? Should we just keep saying to ourselves... "Ahhh lets wait, something will come soon, I just know it!!!". I don't want to give Eric a hard time, he wants to do his own thing. But as Bob Smith explained, dating back 53 weeks for the time to make some content, he better have loads of things finished or this game will really go nowhere, and "fanboys" will have a hard time trying to stick around from the loss of faith. Which is why I've always wanted to see teasers from what Eric is working on, like we saw in pre-S2 era (the height of development).
But the exposure to this simulation (that was given a tagline of "work-in-progress, be a part of its development") has changed ever since S2 was released. Either they don't want to show anything they are working on for fear they will mess our expectations up based on possible boundaries they encounter in the future (eg LX8, a set S2 Final completion date, ideas that are never possible), OR that they have nothing to show us at all and really cannot give us these little 'teasers' of development perhaps??? Nowadays we are just getting little releases from Scawen in the form of a surprise patch, or test patches beforehand. Being led to believe that Eric is working hard and we will be surprised with what he is finished with is not very reassuring with a long wait. Don't most development projects for games or software at least have the decency to give the public a few paragraphs of relief by explaining what is to come in the future and that we shouldn't need to worry? Or do we have to keep listening to community fans that have a great deal of false hope and belief?
It probably is a good thing to take a break like Taavi suggests to himself. Then again, Ian.H is a perfect example of someone who took a 2 year break (?) from LFS, and can see that nothing much has changed on the visual side. So is it really worth it? Or will we just wait for any form of content from any of the devs, and then play it to death to complain about more updates? The game is easy to get bored of, especially because it is a driving game.
I'm sorry, but i don't know what to say to you guys anymore..
Now that things finaly got up to pace, with very frequent updates and all, you are doing these "glass is half empty" arguments..
Please tell me what is dated here, graphics?? Depends how you look at it, car interiors-definately dated and guess what, they're gonna be updated soon, what is else dated?? With all high res updates, LFS looks marvelous, totally realistic, not cartoony like others, AND most people with low end computers can play it... let's see what else is dated here... sounds?? the best there is, gives ME the INFO, not your friend sitting besides you.. and guess what, it got updated, and it will be even more updated soon because Scawen doesn't have to worry about compatibility anymore...
Next.... multiplayer experience, dated?? Not a bit, still the best feel that i got a car beside me, still the best feel when battlling for position, i have no fear to go bumper to bumper, still the best representation of moving cars, and the number of players increased for 10! yes, 10!... is there room for improvement? of course there is, the player leaving the pits glitch...
You say that netcode is now dated, and surpassed by rFactor?? Right.. it can have a 1000 players at the same time, and ZERO lag, i can't race there... cars just doesn't look realistic on the track, and there the story ends for me... You say deforming tyres are just eye candy and you don't even notice them? off course you do, just look how cars behave on the track, and compare it to the RL footage and than compare it to the rFactor race and tell me what you saw... That's the "eye candy" deforming tyres(among other things) that give you that realistic behaviour on the track...
I agree though that we need more realistic stuff, but we already seems to be getting them, like the false starts, quali from pits, NO reset, etc, etc...
Again, all content updated from Scawen, not Eric.
I work nightshift in the Printing house, so these forums keep me awake..
@ Tweaker
I agree with you, i know what you're saying, i was the one that posted a thread "Scawen, what Eric is doing?" or something like that...
I hear you, but i can't see where all this pesimism is coming from, i am 98% sure that we WILL get a nice graphic update till S2 final...
The way I see it at present is LFS is still the king because everything else has not completed the package properly. There are many sims out there but all, including LFS have their faults. Its just the LFS faults are far less than everything else out there.
GPL - Great in its time but very dated now but still has big following.
ISI - I lump all the ISI sims in here (F1C, rF, GTR, GTR2, GTL). No real pickup races online because no real people online, last time I checked rF there were 6 people online. No real good stats collection online and dire tyre physics close to and over the edge of grip. While some of the later products (rF and GTR2) can look very good most people tire of eye candy very quickly. Yes there is modding but that brings its own pains as the rF mod cummunity appear to love ports of old tracks and modding mods.
NKP - Has a huge amount of promise, looks good and good physics BUT people who complain about the snails pace of LFS should look at NKP. A year gone and now the people who purchased initially have passed their year of updates and still don't have a product that works as it should. As their is no AI this makes this a hotlap sim without stats recording. The promised dev kit is now 9 months late and still no sign of it etc.
DR - I have not managed to get a look at this yet but again another sim with promise as comes from the people that created RBR. Again 6 months+ since the initial online test and that has gone dead. Hope this is not the new Racing Legends
NR2003 - Great for its time and still the best Nascar sim but after iRacing attacked the community it has killed the mod scene and now this is looking dated, more than LFS.
iRacing - Well, they have shouted about their glorified NR2003 "mod" for ages now but not even a demo video of what we can expect. I expect this will be a pay to play monthly fee from what it sounds like and they have already attacked their own customer base in the form of the NR2003 community so no idea what reception this will get if it ever comes out.
Well thats it. This is why LFS is still the tops. All of us would like to see more cars and tracks but LFS will remain king and be the bigest pull for online racing until something really does come out with a better overall package.
GPL - Great in its time but very dated now but still has big following.
ISI - I lump all the ISI sims in here (F1C, rF, GTR, GTR2, GTL). No real pickup races online because no real people online, last time I checked rF there were 6 people online. No real good stats collection online and dire tyre physics close to and over the edge of grip. While some of the later products (rF and GTR2) can look very good most people tire of eye candy very quickly. Yes there is modding but that brings its own pains as the rF mod cummunity appear to love ports of old tracks and modding mods.
NKP - Has a huge amount of promise, looks good and good physics BUT people who complain about the snails pace of LFS should look at NKP. A year gone and now the people who purchased initially have passed their year of updates and still don't have a product that works as it should. As their is no AI this makes this a hotlap sim without stats recording. The promised dev kit is now 9 months late and still no sign of it etc.
DR - I have not managed to get a look at this yet but again another sim with promise as comes from the people that created RBR. Again 6 months+ since the initial online test and that has gone dead. Hope this is not the new Racing Legends
NR2003 - Great for its time and still the best Nascar sim but after iRacing attacked the community it has killed the mod scene and now this is looking dated, more than LFS.
iRacing - Well, they have shouted about their glorified NR2003 "mod" for ages now but not even a demo video of what we can expect. I expect this will be a pay to play monthly fee from what it sounds like and they have already attacked their own customer base in the form of the NR2003 community so no idea what reception this will get if it ever comes out.
Well thats it. This is why LFS is still the tops. All of us would like to see more cars and tracks but LFS will remain king and be the bigest pull for online racing until something really does come out with a better overall package.
I have to agree with Tweaker, all i need right now from the developers is a bigger insight to what's to come in the future, what's still in work in progress stage, right now all i see is them being as quiet as possible on their work. Why? I mean if Eric would gather up all his stuff and took screens of them and showed them on the official page, what's wrong with that? Or is there nothing to show? Just prove me wrong and i will be back to being a 100% fanboy, fighting off all the skeptics just like Boris here is. (no offense). I know people will think that the teasers will be just a little portion of the real stuff that's coming, even if they are all that's coming. Just say it out, that this is all. I hate being tricked into thinking that something big is coming and there actually isn't.
But not much that changes how LFS feels (by feel I mean overall environmental feeling, not physics feeling).
I know it _will_ be updated, it's not an if, but a _when_. 2 years is a _long_ time to be waiting for any substantial update.
As for the comment on sounds, I'll guess you forgot the <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags... please don't tell me you were serious.
I didn't say the netcode was dated, neither did I say it _had_ been surpassed by rFactor.. only that LFS was once most definitely king in this area, ISI have caught up and rF _may_ have surpassed, but I can't say for sure as LFS grids are limited to a lower number than rFs so you can't do a large comparison.
ISI's netcode isn't perfect, it does warp occasionally.. maybe LFS' was "so good" because it once held only a few cars in comparison. I don't think this is the case, but until you can run similar comparisons of the likes of 35+ grids, you can't say which has the upper hand.
Fair enough.. I don't think they look too bad personally (and nah, I don't think rF is all it was meant to be either, just don't think it looks too bad myself).. see attached.. I'd love to see some definition in road surfaces like that in LFS. Bump and spec maps make a big difference as I'm sure you're aware and the cars appear to be rolling ok, even without tyre deformation.
When you're charging behind someone at 140mph, you're not looking at how "pretty" their car rolls in the corners.. you only care that there's a car infront of you. The game's meant to be played, not stared at.. but I really doubt that if tyre deformation wasn't visual that you'd see much of a difference in how the cars look around the track.
After 4 years or more. This always has been a sim, not an arcade game.. so why has it taken so long to get these fundamentals in place? Why add some code to handle scripting when there's _far_ more important things to worry about? Taavi's shed analogy is spot on IMO.. that's exactly how progress has been recently from what I can see.
Regards,
Ian
Hmm, what game is that?
This thread is closed
My, How Time Flies
(191 posts, closed, started )
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