Quote from Sticky-Micky :

Legends|Lucky Luke = 1:40.000.
[CD] Snapp63 = 1:40.20
Legends|webber = 1:40.37
[CD] D.I.M.O. = 1:40.50
[CD] Subon VW = 1:40.59
sKunk = 1:40.61
[RF]BenjiMC = 1:40.75
[CD] Droemel = 1:40.91
[CD] Paublo = 1:40.93
[CD] Speedy72 = 1:41.08
Klingis = 1:41.27
[CD] K-Kermit = 1:41.31
[CD] Birder = 1:41.70
[CD] Phil R = 1:41.75
[CD]StickyMicky = 1:41.81
[CD] AProst = 1:41.82
[CD] Celmo = 1:42.64

Oh, that's a nice spread of times... I can almost visualise the race... Sorry, didn't mean to slag off Conedodgers as such; the few occasions I have been there, I've had good, clean racing indeed. I won't even pretend to understand why that combo is so doggedly pursued though

Quote from nihil :

Oh, that's a nice spread of times... I can almost visualise the race... Sorry, didn't mean to slag off Conedodgers as such; the few occasions I have been there, I've had good, clean racing indeed. I won't even pretend to understand why that combo is so doggedly pursued though

you might have been on the conedodgers servers, but that is not a representation of the league racing when in the higher leagues IMHO


which was my point, the top drivers are fast, AND clean when passing.

Quote from Sticky-Micky :

you might have been on the conedodgers servers, but that is not a representation of the league racing when in the higher leagues IMHO


which was my point, the top drivers are fast, AND clean when passing.

Yeah, I think if someone can race fast, close, and clean, there are enough variables involved for it to be more than a programmed twitch.

OT: Was just looking at the Conedodgers league results... only a brief look, but I couldn't see any races on anything but AS3. I don't get it What is that all about?

the previous leagues were aston nat only, the new upcoming league will have a variety of tracks

i think its been held back due to the new upcoming incompatible patch

the problem is, conedodgers have been hosting a few other gtr tracks/combos and nobody ever uses them

the majority of GTR drives only seam to like aston nat, so your guess is as good as mine

we have had a few good team races on other tracks, but the general public dont like them?

Quote from Sticky-Micky :

the problem is, conedodgers have been hosting a few other gtr tracks/combos and nobody ever uses them

Yeah, was just looking at the servers and CD are pretty much the only server offering an MRT race. 4 servers: three empty and AS3 with 19 people logged on!

as3 is always busy, the rest, well i have seen maybe 8 public people use the blackwood one, the MRT one sometimes has a few on, and the kyoto one is empty much of the time also

a "GTR League" is always going to have its hands tied if the general public only really like 1 main combo

anyway this is going off topic,

back on track

i feel the fastest drivers are awesome no matter what, the problem seams to be people who *think* they are fast

Quote from Bawbag :

I think what he means is when you are just driving around killing time that you should let the leaders through without any holding up of any kind. I completely agree, when I join a server and join a race 3 laps in a 5 lap race, if the leaders come up behind me I let them by without compramising them at all because I am only on track getting some laps in for the next restart.

Ovcourse in a longer race the above rules should be used if they are being overlapped simply because they are slower, but if they are 2 or 3 laps behind I think it's pretty stupid holding up the leader when your race is done.

My thoughts exactly.

I think that the problem is not Hotlappers vs Online racers. The truth is you cant fix stupid. Some people just assume that because they are fast you can just move people or scream blue flag. As for me, i will never scream blueflag, nor will i worry about it, besides when im in that position i think im fast enough to get the pass made regardless, if the lapper holds me up alittle, then it just makes for good racing and gives second a chance to catch me . If im in the Blue flagged position then i get the hell out of the way ASAP! (provided it wont take leaders out) ... Its all about situational awareness, some people just dont know how to multitask, or cant. But either way if people are this worried about blue flags go buy a real car and race for real. Remember ANY joe shmoe can get a computer, $40, and get lfs. Not every joe shmoe can buy a real race car, nor have the slightest clue what to do when he gets it. Point being he wont last long
AS for the title, dont you think it takes repeated actions to get good? I think that it called practice :drink:

Quote from pasibrzuch :

I have kind of dilemma, as in title.
It was returning every time after same situation: racing in middle field, an ultra fast driver is screaming BLUE FLAG! BLUE FLAG! from kilometer, and when catching me in corner with greater speed: bang. Two cars spinning on the grass. Then, standard 'move you ass noob!' or 'learn to drive idiot!'. But hey, when it is not my fault (in chicanes it is hard to avoid speeding missile properly), I think that some very fast guys can not drive another raceway they've learned, or react like race driver should react in changing conditions.

I have an interesting story also
Some years ago I've installed Rally Trophy demo on friends PC, because it was brand new machine. He wasn't interested in motor-sports like me, but he started playing it too. First attempts to control the car failed due to different arcade behaviour in games, but after time we where able to complete rally stage alive. Some day he told me that he beated my pb, so I worked at home and beated his. He was really fast and I was ashamed by some of his new pb's and driving abilities.
Anyway, when we purchased full version of Rally Trophy I couldn't believe that he is not able to do any corner of new stage! He was trying with demo car, but even then he was crashing in every corner, while I used to this arcade driving model in demo times and drove not super fast, but always to finish without big crashes.

I believed that he learned the car behaviour in game, but in fact he only learned to press buttons in exact known moments, and on another stage he was like at first time we played demo.

After this happened I lost respect to group of uber fast drivers who cannot drive, in fact.
Do you know how it is in LFS world, how hotlappers practise, how many of them are talented racers really, and how many just exploits LFSs 'work_in_progres' physics and are driving mechanically?

A few things I have noticed in my 16 month of playing Live For Speed:

*WARNING!* generalizations, personal opinions and stereotypes will be used! If you are offended by this,...well, tough!

-The blue flag spammers, from my observations, are for the most part, people whom have never driven a vehicle in the real world, much less a vehicle on the race track. IRL, a racer doesnt hit some key bind to move another out of the way, it is mutual respect with both players. If you want someone to move, fill up their mirrors; that usually gets the point across. If you have a shred of talent, you can exploit a persons weakness so you can pass. You dont have to nerf or push to get results. Also, berate the ignorant backmarker AFTER the race, OK? I get fed up with flooding, and I am sure others do, too!

-In regards to hotlappers on the track with others. Some time ago, I was on a server with a known hotlapper, and that person was the most rudest, vile, pushy racer I have encountered. I have seen wreckers with more class! Sure, that person won, with the fastest time, but after watching the replay, it was when the field was clear, most of the time the person was getting ahead by bumping people out of the way. Fast racers should win and excel with merit, fair play and strategy, and lead by example, not by being a bully, which is what I sometimes see played out on countless servers.

-Sam, you are right...there are some really great,fast people online. They lead by example, and are greeted with hellos and polite driving from other racers. They do their race, leave the juvenile drama out of it, and as a result, everyone has a great time.

For everyone, just remember this: it only take a drop of love to ruin a big old vat of hate. On the other hand, it take only one rotten BANana to ruin the bunch. Dont be a rotten banana.

I don't think this has anything to do with hotlappers vs racers.

All this boils down to is that some people that understand racing rules and those that do not. When the person that has no grasp of racing rules is also a fast driver then that is where you get the issues because they dont appear to feel they have to slow for anything. So if your corner speed is slower than theirs they just ram you.

The people in question have as much awareness as the AI.

I spent a few hours the other night on SO1/FXR with 16+ other people the other night. For once almost the entire field of people were within 1 second of each other as far as lap times went yet still EVERY race there was a huge pile up either going under the bridge or at the first hairpin.

Each time 3+ people would all try and race side by side or would aim at a gap the size of a gnats knob with the strange belief they would fit through it.

They try to run every lap at max pace then wonder why they would not finish the race. Yes racing is about being fast but does not matter how fast you are, unless you finish you are still a loser

The number of times I placed 3rd after starting right at the back (Waited to join until after the grid was placed) just because I finished the race.

I think the real thing that needs to be added is radiator damage. It your race was over when you caved in the front of the car more people would be careful. At the moment you can cave in the front and still not have done damage to anything.

I'm with you, Woz & jay. The problem certainly isn't with people who like to practice and get good times. If you're fast, then great - more power to ya :up:

I just get fed up with people who (a) don't understand RL racing rules and (b) don't use common sense on the track. Of course you're going to encounter slower people than you, but if you're as quick and brilliant as you think you are, surely you can wait a few seconds until it's safe to get by them. If they're ignorant of the blue flag rule and try racing you, give them a serve afterwards and don't clog people's screens with crap during the race (ftr I always block messages before a restart anyway).

I once had some lapper abusing me from lap 1 at BL in his FXO, beeping his horn, spamming "move! move! faster driver coming through!" and we were on the same lap ffs! Afterwards (after he'd wrecked himself twice trying to outbrake me and immediately blamed me) it was explained to the kid that it's not actually racing if you just let someone who's on the same lap pass you. Poor halfwit thought we were kidding So, it's not just guys lapping backmarkers who can suffer from this "let me through NOW" mentality. Sometimes it just boggles my mind how little RL racing knowledge people who play racing games can have Some people out there need to realise it takes more than pure speed to earn the respect of other racers.

Quote from Hankstar :

I once had some lapper abusing me from lap 1 at BL in his FXO, beeping his horn, spamming "move! move! faster driver coming through!" and we were on the same lap ffs!

I distinctly remember someone way back in the S2 demo release (0.5K/L) who midrace joined about half way through and started spamming something very similar as he drove through everyone. illepall

Quote from mrodgers :

I distinctly remember someone way back in the S2 demo release (0.5K/L) who midrace joined about half way through and started spamming something very similar as he drove through everyone. illepall

I remember this too. In S2 demo servers I met this one guy who was blazingly fast but as a racer he was complete retard! Just because he was fast he felt that everyone should give way

(No, I didn't let him go easily so he had to bear with me a whole lap! ) Still, some people

Can we avoid statements like ....(Complete Retard).....being one myself I take a fence

Visit sad kermit.com

Quote from Woz :

All this boils down to is that some people that understand racing rules and those that do not. When the person that has no grasp of racing rules is also a fast driver then that is where you get the issues because they dont appear to feel they have to slow for anything. So if your corner speed is slower than theirs they just ram you.

Well, I must say, I have that problem now and then. But most of the time I simply do not have the time to get on the brakes. So my first reaction is to steer away, but that still ends up in the side of the backmarker, or in his butt. Or I simple end up near the track.

Usually I slow down a bit when there's a faster guy coming to lap me. Mostly I try to drive as fast as I can to a straight and immidiatly pick the inside line there. By the time you've reached the end of the straight the faster driver will have past me and I get back on the racing line before the braking zone so I don't lose much time at all.
Or when I see I'm not fast enough to make it to the straight, I'll let the fasterguy trough by taking a turn wide.

You don't lose much time this way, and the other drivers will appreciate it.

But when I'm the faster driver, it usually surprises me how fast some backmarkers are coming up, and it clearly surprises them too, the don't know what to do and end up blocking half the track. I think that's a problem too, that the difference in level is just too high. Some people have never driven LFS before and also drive with keys, and others drive it too much..

Quote from Bawbag :

I think what he means is when you are just driving around killing time that you should let the leaders through without any holding up of any kind. I completely agree, when I join a server and join a race 3 laps in a 5 lap race, if the leaders come up behind me I let them by without compramising them at all because I am only on track getting some laps in for the next restart.

Ovcourse in a longer race the above rules should be used if they are being overlapped simply because they are slower, but if they are 2 or 3 laps behind I think it's pretty stupid holding up the leader when your race is done.

exactly

Quote from Bawbag :

but if they are 2 or 3 laps behind I think it's pretty stupid holding up the leader when your race is done.

Not really sure how you meant this comment to be understood... It would be stupid to deliberately hold up the leader if just one lap behind, but when racing on a public server, even if you're three or four laps behind you have every right to be on the track and the leaders just have to deal with that fact.

Its a reality of LFS pick-up racing that you have to join the race at some point and I would prefer that people join mid-race to make sure they're warmed up and that the setup is appropriate, rather than wiping everyone out on the launch from the grid or, having joined at the rear of the grid, going into T1 too fast.

Its public racing. There will be a spread of talent. That's the nature of the game, so get on with it.

Quote from nihil :

Not really sure how you meant this comment to be understood... It would be stupid to deliberately hold up the leader if just one lap behind, but when racing on a public server, even if you're three or four laps behind you have every right to be on the track and the leaders just have to deal with that fact.

Its a reality of LFS pick-up racing that you have to join the race at some point and I would prefer that people join mid-race to make sure they're warmed up and that the setup is appropriate, rather than wiping everyone out on the launch from the grid or, having joined at the rear of the grid, going into T1 too fast.

Its public racing. There will be a spread of talent. That's the nature of the game, so get on with it.

But when a car that never even existed on the starting grid, and therefore is not in the race, is being caught by the leaders it is not the same as when a slow racer is caught by the pack after maybe 15 laps. I do not agree that they both have the same right to be on track.

TBH I think LFS should at least have a server option to auto-pit people that are shown a blue-flag in front of someone on the lead lap if they didn't actually start the race. When it happens to me I either pull right off the track or if that's not a safe option shift-s to pit. Why on earth should I play any part (however small) in a race which I never started? Basically I think it's rude and almost selfish to do so.

Aye, if someone's 5 laps down but started the race from the grid they have the right to be there. A racer who joined midrace and is 5 laps down isn't racing, merely passing the time till the next race or (God forbid) hotlapping and should in no way whatsoever interfere with people who started from the grid.

Quote from sinbad :

Why on earth should I play any part (however small) in a race which I never started? Basically I think it's rude and almost selfish to do so.

It would be rude and selfish to race someone overtaking, but its a fact of life on public servers that its a likely occurence that a driver will join mid-race. I've explained why I think that is justified.

If pick-up racing was structured differently (ie. that a qualifying session was mandatory), then I would agree with you. People could join during qualifying and then joining could perhaps be forbidden during a race. But this is not how the majority of public servers are run.

When races start every ten minutes, it is selfish (and short sighted) not to expect someone to join at any time.


EDIT: To be honest, I think this is largely a problem that could be sorted out by server owners bothering to use the "no mid-race join" option. While it is possible to join mid-race, every driver has the right to be on the track, no matter when they started. The race leaders have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of a decision made by the server owners.

When I join a server and am in the pits waiting to join the track, I wont pull out into the pack, I will wait 30 seconds or so to make sure I join at the back of the field so I dont compromise anyones race. I hate to see the Blue Flag message and would rather not be in a position where i feel like im in the way.

Quote from nihil :

It would be rude and selfish to race someone overtaking, but its a fact of life on public servers that its a likely occurence that a driver will join mid-race. I've explained why I think that is justified.

If pick-up racing was structured differently (ie. that a qualifying session was mandatory), then I would agree with you. People could join during qualifying and then joining could perhaps be forbidden during a race. But this is not how the majority of public servers are run.

When races start every ten minutes, it is selfish (and short sighted) not to expect someone to join at any time.


EDIT: To be honest, I think this is largely a problem that could be sorted out by server owners bothering to use the "no mid-race join" option. While it is possible to join mid-race, every driver has the right to be on the track, no matter when they started. The race leaders have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of a decision made by the server owners.

For the record, I don't have any problem with mid-race join. If there's ample free space and you are aware of the other cars and are prepared to totally vacate the track if you are caught up then there's no problem.

What I would have a problem with is someone joining on lap 9 of 10, leaving the pits 3 seconds ahead of the leaders (fighting for position), and acting like a normal lapped car. Or someone joining a 25 lap, 25 car race at FE club. It's totally unnecessary and it's no less wrong (imo) to impede, however little, people in 9th, 10th, 11th etc places. Just respect the people that are already racing, if you join late you are not racing, so don't act like you are.

Quote from sinbad :

Just respect the people that are already racing,

I don't really disagree. I just think that a lapped car is a lapped car. So long as both drivers act in a respectful way, then the number of laps done is irrelevant.