Right hello lads,

I got a thing here what most ppl will also see as one of the most frustrating track sections ever.

Its the track KY GP Long and the its the last section of the track comming out of the oval curve. After that you get a really silly chicane which always causes damage to the suspension, and going slow isnt an option there.

I dunno who designed this track, the Kyoto combo's arent very good but the GP Long version is good apart from that one small section which ruines the track completly, imo why didnt they made that section just a extra long straight till the last chicane, its more easy and it delivers more overtaking chances and fighting opportuneties. And braking too late would result in a visit to the kitty litter.

Anyways, imo the track developer should have a look @ the tracks, because KY GP LONG isnt the only mess up, there are more weird track sections on other combo's which could have been better then they are now.

Schumacher helped develop corners on tracks, i think it would be nice if we could talk about this with the devs and eventually see things chance for the good.

What are your thoughts about the KY GP LONG Chicane??? Also other track bottlenecks are welcome plz post.

I think for now the chicane in Ky3 is the only place where you have to worry about damage, it should stay there, but when we get better damage model that chicane should be re-examined because some things just don't add up there.

The track is nice and i dont wonna change any track. But it will be nice if the developers add some layouts and some new tracks in S3 or in a S2 Patch.
I suggested a fast curving track in here and was bashed from somebody with

• drive KY1
  
• use brakes
  
• learn drive
  
• it is boring to drive a track without braking a BF1 down under 100 Km/h

and so far....
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=23355

I agree with the OP about that KY3 chicane, it is especially awful on the reverse configuration.

Quote from joshdifabio :

I agree with the OP about that KY3 chicane, it is especially awful on the reverse configuration.

Agreed, it becomes even more of a "he who cuts most gains most" affair. Yet another chicane for the sake of a chicane.

I kinda like the chicane, however I can say for a fact its really being exploited, and chicanes are meant for one thing: slow the cars down. This chicane isn't exactly slowing anyone down at all, I would like to see it a longer of a chicane, as in the turns should be spread apart, more like the beginning "chicane" at KY Nat. forward, then I would like the KYGP chicane more, because then it would be serving the purpose it is meant for.

I think it should be remade like the "bus stop" was remade at spa, something like:

I dunno, I quite like the chicane on KY3, although the bit after the oval in reverse is a bit pants.

TBH, when you have "branching" tracks like this, there is normally a wierd transition between one config to another, it happens IRL too, Mondello park is one that springs to mind.

That chicane has no real good design sense in it AT ALL in my opinion.... especially for something that is connecting to an oval from the outside. Basically that section needs to be a slow section because there is the pitwall there, as well as VERY high speed entering it in all directions. If this was a real track, it would have to be slowed down A LOT for safety, and it would have a much revised section with a slower chicane.

If you wanted that turn to be properly driven on, you would need to do something like Taavi mentioned above, or make something with even more angled curves to slow the pace down a bit, as well as give a greater opportunity for passing.

This would be more fun anyways I think, because most of Kyoto has hardly many slow parts. I really hope you can come up with something like this Eric

Blue - New chicane
Green - Part that connects to the blue chicane if you made the KY GP Long+ track
Red - A different chicane idea using a 90 degree bend and pushed further forward to allow for a longer braking spot. Also, if the Red chicane was made, then that would make a cool 90 degree sweeping exit if you made that Long+ version too.

AND OH MY GOD, can we please get the KY LONG+++ VERSION!!! lol Because coming in the direciton from the oval infield and using this section as a hairpin would be SWEET.

@Tweaker, did u mean this as the Kyoto GP long++? If so then that would be the perfect substitute for the 'ring. I know it's not that long but it would rock!

Yep that's the one . Probably would be my favorite track too, as it has a bit of everything. I don't know why it isn't a config we can choose from either. If you count up the distance, AS GP is 8.8 km, KY GP is 7.4 km... but if you made the extra long Kyoto track it would be something like 10-11km, and that is just sweet .

Would make the perfect endurance track too. (The only part that needs to be worked out is where the carousel crosses the oval and into the National bits.

I agree, with the current damage model the chicane kinda ruins the track. It adds a big element of luck of whether the chicane damages you this lap or not - going slow to avoid damage is really not an option there, at least if you have the intention to win. If the damage was consistent, there'd be no problem. I don't think that the chicane design itself is bad, but it's just relying on a better damage/tyre model which we don't have yet. For the time being, the only solution is plastering it with obstacles, unfortunately.

Hmm some interesting options, wadda you guys think about just delete that hole section and just put it straight to the last chicane?? I think you get a real nice combination of top speed and downforce, and loads of fighting and if you brake too late you would end up in de gravel... I think it would be the nicest option.

An other idea is to make a really fast left right corner, and offcourse a busstop like idea is a bit heavvy but its the most easiest option, you could add some walls and your finisht.

But then you would need a negative degree corner there so that the first one is like 200 degrees and very slow, and then another thight right hander, also slow...

Quote from Tweaker :

Yep that's the one . Probably would be my favorite track too, as it has a bit of everything. I don't know why it isn't a config we can choose from either. If you count up the distance, AS GP is 8.8 km, KY GP is 7.4 km... but if you made the extra long Kyoto track it would be something like 10-11km, and that is just sweet .

Would make the perfect endurance track too. (The only part that needs to be worked out is where the carousel crosses the oval and into the National bits.

That would be a great track

[dream] Kyoto Tourist [/dream]

But yeah the National <-> GP Long transition would need a different solution, otherwise it would be like the Aston north hairpin, which i personally don't like at all, maybe a totally different route through there, without even going on the oval, I mean a tunnel under the oval part, should be a cool place to experiment with new lighting solutions as well.


Ahh, i like to dream.

Ahhh the AS North hairpin is one of my favorite parts .

But yeah, for the long KY track, it could just be a straight line going perpendicular across the oval straight there. Would feel the best at least, since it would be keeping the speed up in that long bend, and then shooting right into the little curvy and bumpy chicane on KY National. Though there isn't much runoff there, and the sandtrap would have to be bigger when heading in that direction.

Just to clear up what I had in mind.

Nah, I like that turn how it is, mainly because it leads into the next turn so well.

Plus, KY is quite a fast track, and every chance to slow cars down would be helpful.

Quote from XCNuse :

Nah, I like that turn how it is, mainly because it leads into the next turn so well.

Which turn? The chicane we were discussing previously? Or the ones Taavi just drew.

Fixing the oval --> gp chicane is the main idea... it isn't proper.

A chicane isn't about "try to maintain as much momentum as possible".
A chicane should be about "slow down and then try to accelerate as fast as possible".
That is a design-flaw that is in many LFS tracks.

Vain

Quote from Tweaker :

Which turn? The chicane we were discussing previously? Or the ones Taavi just drew.

Fixing the oval --> gp chicane is the main idea... it isn't proper.

Already posted on the chicane, so yes the one Taavi just pointed out that reminds him of the turn in AS North. KY is not only a fast track but a twisty one so that would just add to the atmosphere really, no sense in making a straight and cutting out quite a distance. Also doing that wouldn't even be plausible due to the angle on the oval, it would be like a serious drop, then going straight, so really it wouldn't make out for a very fun straightaway.

Kyoto tracks have few tire clipping bugs on few corners (the inner edge of kerbs) and I think the Kyoto long-oval-chicane is the worst. In it's current form it is very bad and it could made quite nice if it it was significantly faster or slower. I will be somewhat disappointed if those small bugs aren't fixed in the next incomp patch

I'd really like to see proper chicanes in LFS. One thing that really destroys fern bay for me are the flatout chicanes. Imho, those corners would fit much to trackmania or something

EDIT:

Quote from XCNuse :

...
Also doing that wouldn't even be plausible due to the angle on the oval, it would be like a serious drop, then going straight, so really it wouldn't make out for a very fun straightaway.

Did you check that in LFS before posting? Because that chicane is flat - the area around it is totally flat - flat like... uhm... paper. Totally flat, so making it straight wouldn't make any serious drop. Or did you mean the Taavi's picture about getting the track go closer to the oval corner?

The oval part, I was responding to tweak

@Taavi, now you've really got everyone in this thread confused!

The area where the straight line is drawn on the map across the oval to the infield isnt very steep actually. that's just the start of the banking,

The oval joining chicane IMO is pointless. It ruins the flow of the track, taking it out and making it a flat out kink would make it more fun.

In addition, I would like to KY national modified. The cars should be forced on to the apron of the oval of the first corner - KY2 is a bad corner for T1.

A Kyoto Infield circuit would be a bit of fun as well. I'll make a mockup of it, I posted a Kyoto Club somewhere.

Quote from Me in another post :

Kyoto Club - The one like Enna . Runs normally anticlockwise, starts on the oval. First turn is T1 of the oval, except barriers force you on to the apron. Then the first part of the right-left-right-right of National, but take the part that creates Kyoto Infield. Then the last turn of the oval, but with a chicane, and then after that a rather tight chicane like (if you have tried it) the last chicane at Monza Junior in GTR2.