Quote from Vain :

I strongly disagree. There is no other justification for motorsports other than technology.
If it wasn't for the technological point of motorsports I'd immediately support closing down all race tracks.
(That's why I'd support the end of NASCAR.)

Vain

Of course! Enjoyment, spectacle, passion, the ritual exploration of boundaries... all these things amount to an unproductive consumption of resources and should be chased into obscurity until everything resembles work.

LONG LIVE THE RESTRAINED FLESH!

TO BE PRODUCTIVE IS OUR SOLE DESTINY!

Quote from nihil :

Of course! Enjoyment, spectacle, passion, the ritual exploration of boundaries... all these things amount to an unproductive consumption of resources and should be chased into obscurity until everything resembles work.

LONG LIVE THE RESTRAINED FLESH!

TO BE PRODUCTIVE IS OUR SOLE DESTINY!

you obviously dont have the faintest idea of what its like to do lab work on something that genuinely interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyr5zE7Tets&NR=1
It has nothing to do with topic, but i needed to post it somewhere.
The best part of the video starts @ 50 second mark.

when the devs will chance it the bf1 will finaly a live for speed car !!!

no addons lik trac.

reintjan

Button already has a head start with his driving style

Quote from Shotglass :

you obviously dont have the faintest idea of what its like to do lab work on something that genuinely interesting

I do.

But Vain's statement was worthy of total ridicule. The suggestion that sport's only purpose is technological research, that its only reason for existing is to serve industry, is more than vaguely totalitarian.

Quote from JamesK :

Did anyone suggest that? Someone mentioned that they now do extensive wind tunnel testing, but thats about it. At least they can overtake each other, when was the last time an F1 race had cars side-by-side on the last lap, or a photo finish?

Pretty recently actually... Istanbul GP 2006 http://youtube.com/watch?v=jMfGCWPU1ak (jump to 2:40)

Of course I got your point. For example that race was uber-non-exciting if you don't count that last lap.

Quote from deggis :

Pretty recently actually... Istanbul GP 2006 http://youtube.com/watch?v=jMfGCWPU1ak (jump to 2:40)

Of course I got your point. For example that race was uber-non-exciting if you don't count that last lap.

Good point, forgot about that one, lol ... its a good race if you're shouting at the TV all the way through the last lap

I think Nascar is a bit like "professional wrestling", it's big, it's stupid, it's in your face but you need things like these in the world.

That about sums it up these days, its roots are in good motorsport though. Also, Nascar run more than the Nextel races, there's stuff going down to dirt 1/4 mile bullring racing (like the 'late model' stuff covered in iracing).

i think it will be better

whats the point in getting rid of paddle shifting? its a great idea, and making them use an H shifter could potentially decrease overtaking potential, seeing as they have 1 more thing to distract them.

I agree with somebody who posted a while ago, why not just make the cars wider, give them big fat slicks and get rid of most of the aero addons, maybe leave a couple of wings here and there for a bit of stick. get rid of TC, but keep a lot of the modern technologies and leave space for more, after all, F1 is nothing without innovation.

H shiffting would be much better,overtaking is shite anyway at F1 so theres nothing to loose

Quote from DeKo :

whats the point in getting rid of paddle shifting? its a great idea, and making them use an H shifter could potentially decrease overtaking potential, seeing as they have 1 more thing to distract them.

One more thing to do that requires skill and makes difference between fast and faster driver. Any case going back to H shifter is not a realistic suggestion at all... paddles have been in F1 nearly 20 years already. Instead getting rid off powerassisted steering could be. Ironic that lower level, that being GP2 cars, are actually more physical to drive (many GP2->F1 drivers have said this) than F1.

If I were the rulemakers, I would simply wind down the downforce to about half its current level BUT free up other technologies such as drivetrain, engine, suspension and tire technlogy a bit more.

Basically, my intention is to force aero development towards efficiency (L/D) instead of just more and more downforce. This is both more enegry efficient and mouch more relevant to road cars.

As for allowing lower profile and stickier tires, this is to relieve overdependance on aero generatwed grip and more towards mechanical grip. This reduces overtaking issues by allowing great speeds without causing massive turbelant wakes that make a joke of overtaking attempts. The stiffer tyre sidewalls would also put emphasis back into suspension design and bring F-1 away form current no travel hacks that rely on sidewall deflection for as much as 40% of its travel. As I said before, what would you prefer, a consistant srping/damper suspesion or a sidewall that changes all the time?


And engines would have only 1 rule: A power limit. All engines shall not make more than a specified amount of power (say 750hp). This again puts emphasis back on increasing L/D, since the power limit prevents tthe use of more power to cope with more drag. This is all relevant to road cars too. How you achieve the power is essentailly free, so many types of powerplants and fuels would be allowed, again of relevance to road cars as it allows the development of next generation powerplants. The peak power limit also forces more energy efficiency as this would reduce the need for pitstops. The intentionis to force the development of superior drivetrains to extract as engine power and as efficiently as possible and put emphasis on the generation of broad torquebands. Let's make F-1 cars throttle steerable again! With the current peaky powerbands, throttle steering isn't viable.

how can you control power output? do you measure it on the fly? that is not a realistic option, engine power can change with atmosphereic pressure and temperture as well, you cannot possible control horsepower directly, you CAN though control engine size, rev limit, air intake volume to get the desired effect, which is what they are doing.

F1 cars doesn't mid range lack torque, I believe in few season back renault engineers once say because of the torque they are producing, they can run 6 gear instead of 7. Drivability is always a part of performance engineers are seeking beside power, and just watch how Kimi drive, he can steer while modulating the powerout alright.

What I would propose is to limit engine power to a very well defined range say 720-750hp. Of course, power is ever variable, so what could be done is of course to keep tweaking the energy intake rate to limit power. for instance, as efficiency improves and power starts to get JUST over 750hp for the top teams given that they are tested in well specified controlled conditions, we could simply further restrict energy intake rate. This forces engineers to get more out of the potential energy available from a fuel, be it petrol, diesel, electric power pack, etc. As far as this universe is concerned, the laws of thermodynamics still apply. So does conservation of energy.

The mid range torque that the Renault had was instrumental in its launch and corner exit capabilities, allowing it to run more widely spaced gears that reduce the need to shift gears to save time whilst making the most of the torque to accelerate as quickly as possible. Then the FIA aka Fantastically Idiotic Arseholes banned their variable air intakes and they were forced to follow convention and use 7 gears like everyone else.

I'm quite aware of how Kimi drives, as do quite a few top drivers. But the RELATIVE lack of torque means it can never be steered as well and precisely on throttle as one with proper midrange could. What he does is simply use a mix of throttle and steering commands to place the car on the correct path and tweak his line ever so subtly.

i think they should be rwd like back in the jackie steward days

Quote from theirishnoob :

i think they should be rwd like back in the jackie steward days

are you saying they ain't?

Quote from JJ72 :

are you saying they ain't?

Maybe as far as he knows the F1 are 4wd

bsically he is thinking without traction control

Quote from 11SuLLy11 :

bsically he is thinking without traction control

Can you read his mind or something? That's quite far fetched!

I actually agree 100% with everything that Jamexing has said.

@Jamexing - you've missed two key issues:

1) Engine mapping can be changed on the fly and is hard to detect, meaning teams can magically loose power when faced with a dyno, this is why Britcar soon abandoned the whole power/weight system.

2) Peak power isn't reliable in determining performance, a torque curve tells far more, a WRC car only has 300 bhp @ 5500 rpm after all but the massive amounts of torque in the mid range revs means a conventional 4 pot naturally aspirated engine producing 300 bhp @ 8000 rpm wouldn't stand a chance.

Personally I think that F1 should be allowed to use free 3 litre naturally aspirated engines with everything else free. Restricting aerodynamics without being even more restrictive than the rules are atm would be pretty impossible and TBH I don't think it would be necessary. Current F1 cars are very safe and run on very safe tracks so I see no reason why they have to be artificially slowed like they are especially given the fact that most accidents could be avoided if people really didn't want to crash (or knew they couldn't afford to). F1 should be the pinnacle of the sport direct injection and new suspension technology should be developed in F1, not just sportscar racing, which currently has far more relevance to actual developments in technology. IMO a return of CanAm style racing with virtually free regulations either open or closed wheeled would be fantastic.