I kinda like having the new guys up front. The races usually end up in the same or even worse mess than if it started with the experienced drivers up front. Why? Because many so-called experienced drivers feel they have a god given right to jam their way through the field before the first lap is over, just because they can do the lap 2 seconds faster. If I'm in a field where I'm more experienced, I love the challenge of passing the other drivers, working my way through the field, not ramming through. Ok, I won't set a new PB that race, but who cares if I'm having fun, right?

IMO, what separates a noob from a newbie is the willingness to learn and accept the opinions and advice from more experienced drivers. I give advice as often as I can, and if my advice makes some new guys get a new PB, it really makes my day!

I started GURU (Grown Up Racing Union, www.grownupracing.com) for this very reason. If any GURU member are online there, feel free to ask them anything.

Quote from atledreier :

IMO, what separates a noob from a newbie is the willingness to learn and accept the opinions and advice

Absolutely. Although PBs or laps/distance completed is the only measurable way we have of measuring anyones ability, n00biness is very much an attitude/social issue.

Imho, n00bs are expendable, and can/should be kicked/banned on sight from servers when they start causing problems. Newbies, on the other hand, should be welcomed and encouraged to learn and join in.

How do you tell the difference? It's certainly not always down to speed. But my time at AS3 in the GTR cars this evening demonstrated it nicely.

In one race, I nudged the back of another car in T1 - enough to unsettle us both and slide, but not enough to cause a spin. Naturally I immediately hit F8, which is binded to "sorry". On the approach to the first hairpin (still first lap) I was at the back of a four car slipstream, and locked my wheels the moment i touched the brakes, with having so little aero downforce. I immediately jinked to the left to try and avoid running into the back of the same car in front, who most likely thought I was attempting a passing maneuver and defended the corner, as well as him having his own cars to avoid in front. Unfortunately, this was the same car I hit in T1, and again I ran into him, this time spinning him out. I apologised again, and after I finished the race which he retired from, we had a quick chat about where I went wrong and I apologised again. I'd say my actions in this race could be interpreted as being somewhat newbieish - I was after all a bit rusty having not raced as much recently and readily admitted fault, especially for the T1 incident. And the other car involved happened to be the quickest guy on the server at that moment.

Shortly after, in another race, I was duelling with an FXR driver. He ran into the back of me three times in the first lap, never apologised, and always ran with the advantage he created of pushing me wide. I made a point of standing my ground on the back straight by leaving him only the room for his car, scraping door paint with him as my FZR powered past, only for him to (quite deliberately) rear-end me much harder at the final hairpin before the chicane. I ended up in the wall with smashed suspension, and started a kick vote, followed by a brief exchange of insults. He retaliated by starting a ban vote on me (which, rather dishearteningly, was supported by the fastest guy I apologised to earlier, despite us both being known to each other on that server). Neither of our votes succeeded.

The moral of this rather long-winded story?

The rude twat in the FXR could run a low 1:45, comfortably in the top third of racers on the server at that time, and often competing for 3rd/4th place. No matter what laptimes he could run, he was acting like a n00b instead of being civil, fair, and taking responsibility for his actions. n00biness has nothing to do with speed or miles driven, sadly.

Yeah I was a bit surprised you got a second vote then, but hey shit happens. It was a one-off bad set of races, with a coincidence. The fastest FZR driver and you both are fair racers. The FXR driver just has a very aggressive driving style (and probably was a bit pissed off due to me pwning him in lap times..). It doesn't happen often with you As3 GTR regulars. I'd just let this slip and die on its own..

Agreed, which is why I neglected to mention any names. Thanks for the vote of confidence, even though I had an appalling set of races tonight overall. Nonetheless, I'd disagree on the FXR driver just being "very aggressive". Sometimes, when the situation is appropriate, I'll drive aggressively; making threatening moves down the inside of corners, deliberately blocking the whole line if I'm defending through a corner, etc - anything that's firm but fair. But what he was doing was very different - making no effort to adjust braking points according to who he was following (given that FZRs usually have to brake sooner than FXRs) is one thing, but deliberately punting me off (and I know it was deliberate as I jinked slightly to the right before the turn in point for the final hairpin, fearing he was going to come steaming into me yet again, and he followed me exactly) is quite different - and to me is classed as malicious rather than merely aggressive.

This is getting a bit off-topic, but hopefully illustrates the need for some way of differentiating between those who race fairly no matter how new or slow they are, and those who drive maliciously no matter how fast or experienced they are. Even though I freely admit to having no idea how such a thing can be achieved.

PS. Since when could you do a low 1:44 every race at AS3?! We used to be neck and neck, now I can barely keep up with you while I'm only running high 1:44s.

Quote from atledreier :

I started GURU (Grown Up Racing Union, www.grownupracing.com) for this very reason. If any GURU member are online there, feel free to ask them anything.

Your advice has certainly gotten me a few PBs and my FO8 set is dang near perfect because of you trackside skills. Woulnd't mind another session like that when you get some time.

Seen any Monsrosities lately?

Quote from STROBE :

I know it was deliberate as I jinked slightly to the right before the turn in point for the final hairpin, fearing he was going to come steaming into me yet again, and he followed me exactly

Aye, fair enuff. I don't have a prob with a newbie (or a rustie hehe) making even several mistakes, but n00bs who intentionally do more than give you a slight prod up the rear end need to find their own server!

P.S. I was actually shocked at my driving, in a good way, just happened one day when I drove a 45.67 split and thought "well heck, if I can do that again.."

i dont know what to say that hasnt been said

but i will say this.
Thank you guys that are supporting and helpfull to the Rookie. And thank you rookies for joining everybody in some good fun racing.

Also, its nice to have people out there to educate the other drivers. With experince in the area of inexperience i do say thanks for all those drivers letting me barrow setups and even try to HELP ME make my own. haha

with that said.....can i get a burger somewhere?