Quote from Mykl :

Thanks! I participate in real life motorsports activities and at some point in the next few years I plan to go club racing. LFS seems to be a decent tool for learning how to handle yourself in a crowd of cars. So I may as well take advantage of that.

IMO LFS is the best place to learn racecraft in the sim world, especally with the SRA licensing (Most people still call it STCC, which isn't exactly the case. the SRA is to STCC as the FIA is to GT racing)

Quote from Viper93 :

IMO LFS is the best place to learn racecraft in the sim world, especally with the SRA licensing (Most people still call it STCC, which isn't exactly the case. the SRA is to STCC as the FIA is to GT racing)

That's definitely what I looking for. I really wish that in addition to that that we had access to track I would actually drive on. Oh well.



I just went from bronze to silver in three days.

good to see you guys brushing up on the rules, really. I try and study, myself, granted, it takes tracktime to make your mind heed those forum lessons

Cheers mates.

After reading this post a few days ago I am better at cornering while in tight situations and my lap times have improved! Thanks for bringing it up Mykl, because it puts light on that shady area of racing.

One more point: People should always say sorry if they accidentally bump someone! I get bumped off the track once in a while, sometimes with no acknowledgement at all. At least say you're sorry if you didn't mean it. It makes a big difference to the attitude of the race.

Hey, familiar names in here...

EasTon, I remember that race, and man that was some fun. I think we were side by side for an entire lap.

SKaREO, yeah it's given that everybody makes mistakes. I've screwed up a fair number of times myself, but I'm always quick to apologize and if necessary drop out of the race entirely if the mistake was bad/stupid enough.

I'm generally unconcerned if somebody makes an honest mistake and acknowledges it with a quick "Sorry!" It's really no big deal. When I get irritated is when the guy who goofed up doesn't own up to his error. Then I usually spend the time before the next race reviewing the replay.

The best is when somebody flagrantly wrecks you and then says they're sorry, like that's going to help. Then you go watch the replay and see that you're not alone and the guy is wrecking everybody.

Quote from Mykl :

Then you go watch the replay and see that you're not alone and the guy is wrecking everybody.

Don't hesitate to report them if they are wrecking http://license.ukct.net/report.asp

Quote from Mykl :

SKaREO, yeah it's given that everybody makes mistakes. I've screwed up a fair number of times myself, but I'm always quick to apologize and if necessary drop out of the race entirely if the mistake was bad/stupid enough.

I'm generally unconcerned if somebody makes an honest mistake and acknowledges it with a quick "Sorry!" It's really no big deal. When I get irritated is when the guy who goofed up doesn't own up to his error. Then I usually spend the time before the next race reviewing the replay.

You have to watch this "sorry" business sometimes. There's been a few times I've gotten into semi-arguments because of an accident and the other guy says sorry. Then I said, no problem bud, it was my fault, sorry. Then he argues, no it was my fault, blah blah, LOL. If you can get into an argument with someone and you both argue that yourself is at fault, then you've found a pretty good and considerate racer to race with .

I say sorry often, whether it is my fault or not. Most of the incidents I've been involved with, it was mostly inconclusive as to who was at fault. I don't see many who wreck constantly and could be without a doubt blamed. I see them, just not all that often. Most incidents that happen to me, either I or the other guy was running hard and slid out wide on exit or something like that. Completely racing incidents.

I frequently won't say sorry even if it's blatently my fault because I'm racing not chatting, and don't have time to reach across and type. I will then discuss it calmly with that person, apologising if necessary, AFTER the race.

People who demand an immediate sorry (and wreck if they don't get it) don't deserve to race with me...

I perfectly understand that point of view.

I dont see the harm in sending a sorry hotkey off as I can reach my keyboard with my current wheel.

I have to say though that sorry as a text message is pretty meaningless. I much preffer to say sorry with actions by waiting for the other car to repass me even if it means I loose half a lap waiting for a car that turns out to have shift-s'd.

For some reason I dont seem to receive all that many people doing the same in return, usually they just barge me off and send of a 'sorry' hotkey.

I'm actually inclined to setup a hotkey that says 'Say sorry with actions, not hotkeys ' - but I think it would send out the wrong vibe .

Quote from tristancliffe :

I frequently won't say sorry even if it's blatently my fault because I'm racing not chatting, and don't have time to reach across and type. I will then discuss it calmly with that person, apologising if necessary, AFTER the race.

People who demand an immediate sorry (and wreck if they don't get it) don't deserve to race with me...

Maybe if I was driving on the level you're at where these types of accidents happen with such infrequency that it's not worth mapping a "sorry!" message to a button on the controls, it would be worth waiting for the discussion once the race was over. But where I'm at, accidents happen often enough that in many cases the drivers who hit you hard enough to knock you off the track probably did it on purpose, and by not sending anything to admit an error... it's easy to assume that it was done on purpose or out of sheer negligence.

A love tap or two is not that big of a deal. It happens. No apology necessary. But if I get taken out of the race, I'm going to want to see something immediately. Even if it means taking your hands off the wheel to type, because that's a small price to pay for knocking somebody off the track.

Quote from mrodgers :

You have to watch this "sorry" business sometimes. There's been a few times I've gotten into semi-arguments because of an accident and the other guy says sorry. Then I said, no problem bud, it was my fault, sorry. Then he argues, no it was my fault, blah blah, LOL. If you can get into an argument with someone and you both argue that yourself is at fault, then you've found a pretty good and considerate racer to race with .

I say sorry often, whether it is my fault or not. Most of the incidents I've been involved with, it was mostly inconclusive as to who was at fault. I don't see many who wreck constantly and could be without a doubt blamed. I see them, just not all that often. Most incidents that happen to me, either I or the other guy was running hard and slid out wide on exit or something like that. Completely racing incidents.

ha, I've had one of those... lol

Eh, as I see it it all boils down to the basics: as long as someone has overlap you give them room and you take two different lines (inside and outside). If they yield, lift halfway through the corner and tuck in behind you then you can take the optimum line, but as long as they're beside you you need to give them room and adjust entry speeds accordingly. There's really no excuse for mashing someone into a barrier by trying to take the optimum line when they have some overlap, except "I didn't see you," which I've been on both sides of. Obviously stupid mistakes are made and it's a good idea to have a "sorry!" hotkey or button, as I quickly learned.

This works equally well for chicanes, I've entered many a chicane alongside a peer and gotten through cleanly. It's all about improvisation.

Seeing as most are Silver licensed and above, you shouldn't have much of a problem with people being reckless.

Quote from MorpheusZero :

There's really no excuse for mashing someone into a barrier by trying to take the optimum line when they have some overlap, except "I didn't see you," which I've been on both sides of.

This still isn't an excuse for it. You should know where the other car is at all times. If he is no longer in your view to the front or to the side and is not in your mirror, then you assume that he is still beside you.

Of course accidents do happen in situations like this. When you are the following car or the car being passed and holding the outside line, it is pretty easy to distinguish whether the other driver simply understeered and slid out into you if contact is made or just blatently not leaving room.

Quote from MorpheusZero :

Eh, as I see it it all boils down to the basics: as long as someone has overlap you give them room and you take two different lines (inside and outside).

That is exactly the way i see it. There is enough room around virtually every corner in LFS to go two abreast. If someone has got their nose up the inside of me on entry to a corner i keep to the wide line, and would expect the same in return.
There are a group of drivers I've got to know pretty well in my short time racing LFS that i can trust completely to race side by side with into corners, and i hope they feel the same way about me. Accidents will always happen in racing, but if ever I've been involved in contact with any of these drivers(or the other way round) it's has been just that..an accident. And that happens pretty rarely.

Unfortunately there are still far to many instances where you get what i would call significant overlap going up the inside, when the car on the outside just dives for the apex and turns in on you. This is either down to over aggressive driving or a complete lack of situational awareness, I'm not sure which, but it needs to be addressed by some drivers.

Over the years I have found It's drivers making a move on the inside where there is no chance In hell that they could hold the corner being 3 car lengths behind and end up using me as arm-co causes most problems for me

I think its Important that the overlap "rule"starts at the braking point.

I have been rammed off the track so many times by other drivers who seem to to think they have alien braking technology that allows them to put the Anchors on 50 Meters later than I can, then find out at the Apex that ET went home.

Quote from JohnPenn :

I have been rammed off the track so many times by other drivers who seem to to think they have alien braking technology that allows them to put the Anchors on 50 Meters later than I can, then find out at the Apex that ET went home.

Hehe, yup, i know what your saying. I think some people think that they can still take the corner at the same speed as they would on the perfect line, when in reality you need to take it a lot slower, often dropping down an extra gear.
The lack of situational awareness is still my main gripe though. 4 races in a row yesterday people went piling into the hairpin at SO town reverse without a care in the world, causing mayhem. Still far to many first lap heroes about imo.

Quote from mrodgers :

This still isn't an excuse for it. You should know where the other car is at all times. If he is no longer in your view to the front or to the side and is not in your mirror, then you assume that he is still beside you.

I'm not sure what you're trying to debate. I'm not going to intentionally not see somebody, but every once in a blue moon it seems you're in the clear when someone's in your blind spot. This is called an accident.

You can't really rely on your mirrors while cornering, you have to realise when someone is driving next to you. The best way to know where they are is to use headphones or turn up the volume a bit so you can hear exactly where the other car is. I always do a quick head turn just to make sure right before I apex a corner so I don't hook someone into the wall and ruin their race. Accidents do happen though, you just have to know when it truly was an accident.

Quote from MorpheusZero :

I'm not sure what you're trying to debate. I'm not going to intentionally not see somebody, but every once in a blue moon it seems you're in the clear when someone's in your blind spot. This is called an accident.

I'm sorry, did I "sound" harsh in what I wrote? I didn't mean it that way. I was just commenting on the "there is no excuse.....except 'I didn't see you' " comment. Simply accidents do and will happen. That is still no excuse. If it was me who "didn't see you", I wouldn't make the excuse that "I didn't see you", but I would feel very bad about pushing you off. If it happened to be you who pushed me off, then I wouldn't be upset because it is easy to see when it is clearly a simple mistake and an accident rather than blatent pushing to make a pass. I also wouldn't fault you for saying that if it was simply a mistake and a racing accident as well.

Quote from SKaREO :

You can't really rely on your mirrors while cornering, you have to realise when someone is driving next to you. The best way to know where they are is to use headphones or turn up the volume a bit so you can hear exactly where the other car is. I always do a quick head turn just to make sure right before I apex a corner so I don't hook someone into the wall and ruin their race. Accidents do happen though, you just have to know when it truly was an accident.

I remember a pretty obvious accident that you blamed on me once... *cough*

Quote from mrodgers :

I'm sorry, did I "sound" harsh in what I wrote? I didn't mean it that way. I was just commenting on the "there is no excuse.....except 'I didn't see you' " comment. Simply accidents do and will happen. That is still no excuse. If it was me who "didn't see you", I wouldn't make the excuse that "I didn't see you", but I would feel very bad about pushing you off. If it happened to be you who pushed me off, then I wouldn't be upset because it is easy to see when it is clearly a simple mistake and an accident rather than blatent pushing to make a pass. I also wouldn't fault you for saying that if it was simply a mistake and a racing accident as well.

Ah, my bad then. I didn't mean that it was totally excusable if you didn't see somebody, but rather that that's the only time someone should get ground between a car and a hard place. In my less experienced days of racing things that I just wouldn't expect would happen, I'd make room for people when I saw them but every once in awhile some crazy mofo joins who violently rips down the track record on the first lap. If I was previously the quickest driver on the track, check my mirrors after T1 and see no one (of course he's next to me with about 50% overlap) then you can somewhat understand my predicament. Obviously in this case it would be an accident, I'd feel like a jackass and apologize when I got the chance.

wooo, just picked up gold... I'm slow as balls, but I'm gold and slow as balls...

I always try my best to practice on what everyone says. But sometimes honest mistake do happen, and I understand it, whether it was by me or someone else.

But the two things that irk me are:

First, when someone did know that they made a mistake that caused you to go off the track or something, they don't stop and wait for you to pass them back, they gave you the standard "Sorry" as if everything will be alright and kept on going.

Second, it usually happened on T1, T2 or T3 on the first lap. Here we have a bunch of racers very closed together. There might be a car in the front slightly lost control in the turn, I am in the mid pack, slowing down to avoid hitting him or avoid getting hit. But the morons at the back just kept on charging into the turn like they were hot lapping. No respect for the people in front of them.

DDmak

Quote from ddmak :

First, when someone did know that they made a mistake that caused you to go off the track or something, they don't stop and wait for you to pass them back, they gave you the standard "Sorry" as if everything will be alright and kept on going.

I usually apologize even when something is the other person's fault, but in these cases I'm definitely not going to pull over. I'm sure there are many others in the same boat.

Quote from ddmak :

Second, it usually happened on T1, T2 or T3 on the first lap. Here we have a bunch of racers very closed together. There might be a car in the front slightly lost control in the turn, I am in the mid pack, slowing down to avoid hitting him or avoid getting hit. But the morons at the back just kept on charging into the turn like they were hot lapping. No respect for the people in front of them.

DDmak

Yes, this is typical and is just people trying to be first lap heroes and get lucky. It's nothing new. If you're not already in the silver and up servers, it usually decreases a huge amount in there.

I think if people were more willing to put the effort into reporting incidents that break the stcc rules, then we wouldn't be having this discussion!

Not just the blatent wrecking incidents though - the ones where drivers make a mistake and cause an accident, then instead of waiting to be re-passed, they speed on down the road leaving carnage in their wake. If people expected to be reported for these kind of misdemeanors, they would be far less likely to cause the accident in the first place:
They might think:
"ooh, I better be careful here, if I take that guy out, I will have to wait for him, and I will lose lots of places == lots of points"
instead of:
"hmm if I go in hot here I just might be able to get through safely and take the place, but if not, that guy in front will be a good cushion to keep me on track, and if he loses out thats his tough luck"