Hi all,

I get asked a lot of questions about setup. What spring rates should I use? How much damping do I need? What cambers should I run? How much ARB do I need?

I can never answer these questions unfortunately. Whenever I set up a car I do it through testing and feeling the change. I ignore numbers.

Bob has created a couple of fantastic setup analysers and they look great and I'm sure there is real science behind them but since my very early days of LFS I haven't used them.

So, what I want to know is do all you setup gurus set up by feel and test times alone as I do or do you work out what spring rates you need based on say downforce or work out required damping rates using calcs?

I expect there is no right or wrong way and maybe a combination of both is good. All I do know is that when I have modified people's sets for them I have had extremely good feedback and they often go out and set PBs. So clearly the feel/testing approach works.

Analysers such as my own are never intended as a replacement for trial and error testing through feeling the car when driving it. They are intended to speed up the process by telling you exactly what you changes are going to do (although it takes time to learn what 10% understeer will feel like, for example), so you can hopefully make changes to your setup that you actually want, rather than saying "ah, ok, that didn't work".

Ideally, you'll be using both, unless you really know the inner workings of setups that well that you are aware of everything in your head (of course you can't get the numbers in your head, but you can still get the feel). If anything I'd put more emphasis on feeling than numbers. The numbers are only guidance and information, the decisions on what to use can only come from feel.

when starting from scratch, i make my initial tire pressures and spring rates proportional to the weight distribution of the car. (eg, stiffer in front on front engine cars)

i use trial and error to set 1st and 6th gear ratios, and calculate 2nd to 5th to fit a curve between them.

i use the forces view to set the brake balance and strength (watching replays in slow motion to see which wheels are locking first).

everything else i set by feel, and adjust the spring rates and tire pressures away from the initial values i calculated as required.

Voted "Feel and testing." These days, my setups are all trial and error. The only tool I use is f1perfview to see how much suspension travel I have left.

There was a time when I tried to use colcob's setup analyzer to make my sets. The main benefit I got from that was finding the optimal rebound damping. These days I can just drop the car in the garage and see that for myself and then tweak it after testing it on the track.

Quote from Forbin :

Voted "Feel and testing." These days, my setups are all trial and error. The only tool I use is f1perfview to see how much suspension travel I have left.

There was a time when I tried to use colcob's setup analyzer to make my sets. The main benefit I got from that was finding the optimal rebound damping. These days I can just drop the car in the garage and see that for myself and then tweak it after testing it on the track.

I find on some tracks - like South City for example there are certain corners where you understeer if you have too much rebound and you have to reduce it. Then you get that horrible loose steering feel you get with not enough rebound.

I don't think you can setup your car completely mathematically... You have to go out and test it... There might be bumps or something mid-corner, which quite possibly can render your setup unusable... I had some problems setting my FOX @ SO Long, the rear always broke loose when crossing the train lines... It took me many trials to eventually find the correct settings...

if i havent used the car in a while, or only hav bad sets, i may make a "base set" to start from
using the setup analyzers, tweak that a bit to get a general good feel. then use that tweaked set along with further tweaking to suit a track/combo.

I generally take either the default or RACE_S set, give it lower tyre pressures, higher grip tyres and camber to -1 or -2, and lower it some, then begin driving, where I feel more oversteer or understeer is needed, I adjust whatever is needed, and repeat.

I fine tune the gears and brakes on the drag strip

I voted Feel & Testing, because I don't have a mechanical bone in my body

I've tried to use various setup programs (and Bob's Gear Ratio Calc), but I usually end up messing something up since I really have no idea what I'm doing. Normally I start with the Race_S sets and then modify them to suit the track and my driving style. Through trial and error I can fix over/understeer, suspension/damping problems and I'm starting to get more into gear ratios as well (although I have a long way to go).

So the theory might help if you know a little about the mechanics, but it won't help clueless noobs (like me)

i randomly click around and see how it has changed the handling of the car

First I set the car up without feel or calcs. Smooth track? Harder suspension. Tight corners? Low front ARB, higher rear ARB, etc. Then drive a couple of laps and fix any under/oversteer, camber and such like. Making small tweaks I'll stop when I've found a setup that's as fast as possible for me while being easy enough to be reasonably consistent in.

i used to do random clicks and still do, but i'f i'm working hard on a set i'll use the setup analyser then test it myself and do the rest by feel until i'm stuck then i get the analyser out again and see if it feels good to me.

BTW Thanks Bob!

I usually put standard values (like 2Hz for the springs or something close), and then do a lot of testing to make the suspension better, to find what knid of pressure for tires are the best to be fast etc...
So, it begins with some maths but testing is the only way to find the bugs in the physics

I just download the WR setup and adjust my driving style to suit, so i kinda end up with a slightly different style for each combo, depending on the setup i use.

setups should be custom to the player, for example i might request a setup for that track use it for that race and then when i have time create a duplicte and use it offline to test to get it right for me. what type do i like i like one that has the diff settings and gearbox high toruqe i wanna put out of a corner and get a lot of power without spinning the tail out