actually, the accident of the JWRC driver (at Catalunya 2006 iirc) wasn`t classical accident. He crashed and ended off the road, both the driver and codriver unhurt - they were trying to repair the car, when another driver had accident in the same place and unfortunately hit the codriver who was repairing the car.
actually, the accident of the JWRC driver (at Catalunya 2006 iirc) wasn`t classical accident. He crashed and ended off the road, both the driver and codriver unhurt - they were trying to repair the car, when another driver had accident in the same place and unfortunately hit the codriver who was repairing the car.
They used whistles at the WRC Germany Rally. Everytime a car was close enough the marshalls would whistle a few times to make sure people were alert. Similar to the way that people race circuits are warned everytime a car enters the pitlane.
Ah right never new that, the Martin Park one was an example of what's wrong with modern rallying, I remember thinking this was coming after Solberg, Martin and a few others were being lulled into a false sense of security flukily walking away from far larger accidents.
Would that be Super 2000 regulations? S2000 rally cars are IIRC the current PWRC or JWRC formula (not sure which), with some major differences to the S2K tourers.
S2000 rally cars would be a good idea, it would also cut costs as well.
Longer events would be a much better idea, but that would be hard to do - I like the current style of shorter stages. Just give them less service areas and make them think about finishing in one piece.
@Duke - I was thinking far more production based than S2000. Long events aren't that hard to do, look at the old Safari, 8 hour stages, nothing really technically difficult to do today, problem is stupid health and safety/liability issues.
ajp are you aware that the rally cars which were probably the most modified in relation to the production models are the rally safari versions ?
As statement to the quantity
Well... I do not think so... If I'm thinking of the Nürburgring Nordschleife there are about 2-3 deadly accidents each year with drivers. But there are races on it scince 1927 till now! In IRL there were some deadly accidents in the past years too (btw quiet ironic that they made the IRL game(s) for 200x with the data of 200x-1, sothat there race drivers who are dead!)
if i am watching this old movie (link somewhere above) i have to say, that i cannot understand why so many people are that near the track... today there are not these huge masses of spectators, but i don't think that they are more clever then these people back in the past. For these people it is sometimes a "happening".
When i read the heading, well i doubted that the spactator knew that there is a rally (like it happens sometimes on the Rally (Paris-) Dakar). But after I read it, i knew, she must have known it! She was only 200m away from a checkpoint...
I don't realy know what to say... the family is on my mind, but this spactator... if she had waited until the last car passed by, she would still be here in this world...
(sorry for writing a novell)
Guards to toughen the underside of the cars, extra fuel tanks, spare wheels and tougher suspension are nothing compared to sequential gearboxes, active diffs and engines, in fact I'd of thought the typical Safari modifications would have been less complicated than building the rollcage.
you forgot a lot there
- longer suspension arms
- much much longer springs
- double wishbones iirc
- (probably) lockable diffs
Couldn't agree more with you.
I think FIA's approach to rallying is completely wrong, it tries to make it more "sexy" and mainstream than it actually is. F1 is sexy just because it is F1, it's sexy in a different way than rallying if you know what I mean. Doesn't look like it's getting any better anytime soon.
Today rally has probably more TV viewers than ever (I guess?) but how about the fact that there's only three factory teams. That pretty much sums up how FIA has fücked up rallying. Not really a surprise though, what else can you expect from a bunch of monkeys.
This season I have completely lost interest to rallying.
In addition to boring rallies and boring cars, there's just no competition, no excitement. Private teams has no chance against the few factory teams. Only two drivers (without DNFs) has realistic chances at winning isn't real competition. Always either Loeb or Grönholm, all quiet on the western front...F - Fantastically
I - Idiotic
A - Association
Well, with so many manufacturers gone, what's the point? Even good old rally fanatic Mitsubishi aka winner of 4 consecutive WRC championships in the 90's (when cars were more production based aka based on Group A rules) is gone, and that in itself has sealed the future of the WRC into an exponential decline. Next thing we know is they'll be adding NOS buttons to WRC cars...
Mainstream? Next thing we know is that WRC will become just another fashion statement with a useful life as long as NFS:Underground in my hands (Under 10 minutes AFTER winning 2 races AND figuring out all shortcuts in 2-3 laps for each race. Just doing a favour for someone who wanted quick "cash".).
I - Idiotic
A - Association
Well, with so many manufacturers gone, what's the point? Even good old rally fanatic Mitsubishi aka winner of 4 consecutive WRC championships in the 90's (when cars were more production based aka based on Group A rules) is gone, and that in itself has sealed the future of the WRC into an exponential decline. Next thing we know is they'll be adding NOS buttons to WRC cars...
Mainstream? Next thing we know is that WRC will become just another fashion statement with a useful life as long as NFS:Underground in my hands (Under 10 minutes AFTER winning 2 races AND figuring out all shortcuts in 2-3 laps for each race. Just doing a favour for someone who wanted quick "cash".).
By the way, what I read in local newspaper was that the car had some sort of malfunction and went off the track and then rolled over 3 people, sadly one of them died, so it's not the spectators fault.
I am marshalling at the Manx International Rally this weekend and I have not been issued with a whistle but we have been told to be very vigilant for people in forbidden zones and crossing the track. However, we are not to put ourselves in danger for the sake of stupid spectators. Shouting and arm waving, but no going on the road unless a car needs assistance.
Suspension components have no relation to production ones anyway, I assume the only production part retained is the upright, so designing new suspension for a tougher rally really isn't any different to smooth rallies. The big bits on a rally car are the engine/gearbox and diff. Running a near standard engine with the production gearbox casing and banning active diffs would cut costs dramatically. I very much doubt they did run locked diffs on the Safari but if they had a need to they could create a permanent locked diff by reprogramming the active diff.
I suppose now is a bad time for chicken crossing the road jokes.
I dont think crossing the road on the day of a rally is unreasonable or stupid. It's just a road, and life goes on, and unlike normal it's devoid of traffic. I understood that marshalls would warn spectators when a car comes?
Not all race marshalls are on the ball sadly, i've seen drivers injured as a direct result of marshalls before - so it would not suprise me to see a spectator harmed.
I dont think crossing the road on the day of a rally is unreasonable or stupid. It's just a road, and life goes on, and unlike normal it's devoid of traffic. I understood that marshalls would warn spectators when a car comes?
Not all race marshalls are on the ball sadly, i've seen drivers injured as a direct result of marshalls before - so it would not suprise me to see a spectator harmed.
I dont think people find it wrong that she crossed the road on the same day as the rally was taking place Becky, i think what people find stupis is the fact she crossed the road infront of a WRC car!
I mean whatever about marshals etc... there is no way she could not have known there was a rally car close, the noise of those things!
It's a shame, Darwinism is doing it's rounds!
I mean whatever about marshals etc... there is no way she could not have known there was a rally car close, the noise of those things!
It's a shame, Darwinism is doing it's rounds!
@Becky - marshals do a bloody good job but ultimately they cannot take care of everything, crossing a rally special stage without checking is really the same as crossing any racing track, you wouldn't just amble across Silverstone even if there wasn't someone there to tell you not to.
This is going to sound ghoulish, but I always assumed that spectators were killed fairly often in rallying and it just didn't make the news. When you look at the way people line both sides of the road, even on corners, in some WRC rallies it seems hard to believe that deaths are not frequent. If I'm wrong and this death in Argentina is the first spectator death for several years then that's good news. Anyone have any figures?
i was under the impression that a standard wrc car uses a fairly stock macpherson suspension which the safari ones didnt iirc
nice idea why dont we just ban all development dirctions which over the long term might prove useful in production cars (prodirve already showed how great active diffs are on a raod car as senn on top gear)
thats the same thinking that has made f1 useless as a spectator sport
but the bit of traffic thats on it comes at you at highway speeds ... and i wouldnt run across an autobahn no matter how deserted it might look at the time
In all seriousness, it's always sad when someone is killed but as the warning signs say for spectators motorsport is dangerous.
Spectators must take responsibility for their safety especially at a rally event where it's impossible to marshal everywhere. Look at how many people park themselves on the outside of corners or down service roads at hairpins, it's crazy. I remember seeing Solberg lose his brakes and was trying to use the handbrake to stop himself from hitting the crowd who were on the service road.
At my local club we had (not sure if the problem still persists, I guess so) a problem with parents sitting their children on top of the safety barrier using the tyres as a foot rest. Even after warning they'd often just move along and do it again. If a kart was to go off there is a chance that the child could get hurt. My Dad has cleared that fence before in a 210 gearbox when the needle popped up out of the carb.
Ultimately by being in the confines of a race track the spectator accepts the risks. So they should be thinking hard about where they stand.
Well the current WRC engines are all fairly formulaic with very little if any relevance to production cars.
lets review that in a couple of years maybe decades
What's your point? My point was the current WRC engines are completely unrelated to the production ones and any other motor racing engine, either by regulations or choice (I suspect regulations) they've become static, every car has a similar engine and they aren't being innovative or developing new technology just spending a lot of money building the same things again and again.
Two big issues facing WRC atm:
1) Cost
2) Safety
Using less expensive less highly specialised engines nails both and actually opens up the development of near production engines, far more likely to actually have an impact on the real world than the current system.
Very sad news, sorry to hear. 
which doesnt mean that they havent made extensive research that will sooner or later dibble down into the consumer market once it gets affordable
just because racing technology progresses much quicker than consumer tech doesnt mean limiting it will in any way speed up the development of consumer tech
if anything it might slow it down as consumer market engineers dont have any well documented racing research to fall back on 10 or 20 years from now
i suspect that fia is to blame for that rather than the teams
Spectator killed in Rally Argentina
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