Wow Mikey, Nice!!
One minute i have Dru assuming that im having a go, and then after pointing out that isnt how i feel you chip in with that crap!

1) When we get a grid of V8 Supercar quality of drivers taking part then maybe full grid reversals would be practical.
2) 'A good driver can pass anyone'. We raced pretty tight for a few laps in race 1 when i had to come back through the field cos of a stray hay bail, we faught hard and im pretty sure there wasnt any contact through it all. Why? Because theres a mutural respect and you know the other person knows what they're doing (and because they didnt get there by reversed fu**ing grids!!) however when you turn the whole thing on its head your taking a field of varying ability and asking them to race and wonder why some people arent happy because the whole thing implodes in on itself.
3) Telling people to take it easy and saying its half points is all good and well, but you proved yourself in the heat of racing you do what racers do, you dont fanny about holding hands.
4) You'd rather have everyone twiddle theirr thumbs for 8+ minutes rather than try and ensure safe driving for the next race?? Fantastic!
5) 'Apparently'? Theres nothing apparent about it, I was the one who bl**dy posted on this forum pointing it out because its such a bizarre rule, there doesnt appear to be a reason for it. Many people have asked in the server can we move to the next track, and their request goes unanswered. So apparently what your saying is that its against series rules to open up a 2nd existance of LFS and do a few laps practice rather than sit there doing sweet FA for 8+ minutes?
6) 'Fast drivers hate reversed grids' so that makes it a good idea?

This is your series, and im not telling you how to run it, but i'll be damned if im not entitled to express my opinions on it! If i see something that i feel is just stupid then why am i not entitled to express that opinion? Is nobody allowed to highlight issues or make a comment, you dont bother moaning at McintyreJ for having the same opinion that the sprint races arent good *racing*, they may be fun for some people, but they're also spoiled for some too.

Of the 2 sprint races i havent come out of them badly, i dont think ive been on the receiving end of anything stupid yet however im seeing it left right and center all around me. At the front end of the grid you just drive and dont make a mistake, maybe thats boring to some though the concept of the fastest person winning, but im pretty sure im all set on the definition of racing. If you'd rather have this 'toss of the coin' style of racing then fair enough, I just find im finishing those races feeling frustraited, if they were 14 cars of Mikey ability then i wouldnt have any worries, i'd know i can race with them and i'd know where i'd stand, whats doable and what isnt. Instead its a real mixed bag and i dont enjoy that for organised racing, i can get that any half-full server online right now if i wanted that.

Quote from Dru :

BTW the lap 25 incident, i was thinking what on earth Moose was doing, thinking can this guy not tell i'm by him and hes turned into me, however, when i saw the replay i see your car spun as your back wheel went on the grass so i must take back the things i was saying in my head

Hehe, yeah..i was actually making sure you had plenty of room, and i stayed too wide and put a wheel on the grass, which caught me totally by surprise and i was just glad i managed to gather it all up without totally screwing it up for both of us

Dru:
Its truely amazing how one persons opinion of someone can be changed so quickly!

Either you havent watched that properly or your taking the p!ss! The fact that Rooble is trying to swap lanes seeing as you've already tried forcing him onto the grass on the existing side AFTER he's already moved there, and unfortunately misread things when trying to swap to the outside for the corner where there was plenty of room but you'd insisted on forcing him to the pitwall.
Watch from overhead, 0.125 speed, watch as just after he's edged past the part where you gave him no room, he starts to pull more of the car alongside you and then backs off slightly till the point where you'd *almost* got daylight between you and tries to swap sides. If you still feel thats intentional and not you over-reacting to something petty that at most cost you 0.2 sec, then i'll accept his punishment for it, because i dont believe for one second that he'd intentionally take you out, and if you do then more fool you.
If someone was going to take you out they'd take more of the car than the couple of pixels there and they'd also make more of an effort to do so. Pecker had the same thing happen to him last week, crossing the line after passing one of the 'backmarker on the same lap' cars and they clipped and carried on, but Pecker didnt come on here claiming someone intentionally tried to take them out. The term 'accidents will happen' seems to be forgotten.

Alternatively i could ignore that and point you in the direction of lap 12, turn 1, the incident between ZWR Mikey and (V) Viper, where despite being nothing like nose to tail mikey made a stupid dive for the racing line.
The difference between the way they're handled is quite clear, Viper was quite happy to let it go, it wasnt intentional, bloody stupid but not on purpose. He lost a position because of it (mainly cos i took both there places, thanks Mikey!) and the incident could have wrecked both drivers involved and anyone following behind race because of a silly move. He didnt kick up a fuss and start telling you that your drivers need to sort themselves out, and use that as a reason why everything else commented upon is now invalid, he knew it was a racing incident and grew the balls to accept sometimes sh*t happens.

Now, I managed to listen to Mikey comment on how people shouldnt make rash moves in the sprint race shortly after having made such a move to a teammate, i was able to be sensible about it and not be petty about it and bring something that has nothing to do with the discussion into the matter just to score points.

Personally i think thats quite a low blow, particular paired with all the assumptions made in there about 'Mercury' just because 1 of their members asked if we could remove the wind and the other of which YOU regularly quiz over MSN asking me my opinion on every aspect of the series imaginable, which then changes 24hrs later as you've changed your mind.

'afterall i don't hear NOBODY else complaining from the first two rounds apart from Mercury'
Complaints i know of:
Reversed sprint races - Mcintyre has brought up the issue of the driving in the sprint races twice on the forum, at least once in the server. i've agreed that it doesnt provide good racing and pointed out how other series have used this concept.
McintyreJ complained about peoples driving and being shoved around in the sprint race, he had the same thing again, nothing malicous but he's a quick driver round there who's been punted about in the 2nd race after a clean 1st race.

Sitting in a server for 8+ min doing nothing - Other people have also asked if we can have the 2nd track opened when we've been in the server, not sure who was the first to suggest it, rather than giving an explanation why this simple task couldnt be done they were ignored (by Mikey & hotmail in the first round) and everyone sat waiting.
Apparently though because I was one of the people thats asked it means im the only person. For a fun series im not really sure why people who want to cant do a few laps, if it helps avoid just 1 accident, surely its better than making 90% of people sit there waiting.
Just checked round 1 race 1 replay, i was the first to ask, at least 3 people ask if we can change track, and its ignored. It wasnt missed, like someone stating something three times before i agree with them, just pretended it wasnt being asked. When it finally gets a reply in here its not a reason, its just a stupid retort from Mikey suggesting that apparently im looking to gain an advantage by everyone ELSE doing some laps cos im doing so offline eitherway, but thats Mikey logic, he throws a tantrum after i'd said im not fussed about wind if they really want it, and decides he doesnt want it anymore.

Inconsistant weather/Wind -
Pecker has mentioned he doesnt like Wind, i agreed with that, you guys felt it was realistic, i conceeded thats fair enough its your series, and instead instead take it off!

What/Who else? Thats me and Pecker tarred and feather as being percistant moaners because we've expressed an opposing opinion on something, typically in an attempt to be helpful and make you aware of problems.
2 of an 18 man team, 4 of which are taking part, so half the team has mentioned something in the last 6 weeks. Of the 2 people, one is contacted on a near daily basis to discuss just how things should be done.
So rounded up, its 1 person mentioning they dont like wind and another person that you constantly speak to about finding solutions and ideas for the series and is doing more than enough work for their team to be considered one of them!! Wow, what a bunch of c*nts we are, how you put up with us is beyond me.



If you dont want discussions about them, then dont contribute to the discussion, just say you'll take it on board for the next series but for now things will stay as they are because they're not a significant issue to warrent change midway through. Maybe open up a seperate thread for this sort of thing to be talked about somewhere suitable. It certainly makes more sense than throwing a load of excuses, pointing at incidents involving teammates to invalidate something irrelevent and then say your fed up of hearing discussions - the end.

The reason its happening in Div1 more-so is because of the standard of driver in there. Its fairly evident that plenty of people were able to put in 1 lap, but throw them into a pack and it becomes something completely different. Hotlapping and Racing are 2 different things, ignoring bladey (+1.2sec) the pack of 13 cars were seperated by 1sec. Top 4 by 0.2s and top 8 by 0.4s so its not like theres slow drivers in there, but the reversed grid is a completely different kettle of fish. When those cars half a second slower (possibly done on just 1 Q lap) have faster cars behind them and are having to defend they become considerably slower, and that inturn creates more trouble. Thats why i think the WTCC method of a half-grid reversal makes more sense, flipping say the top 10 cars means they've got an easier ride but more chance of a proper scrap between drivers without 'slow-coaches' getting in the way. Do those at the very back of a grid really have a chance of finishing right up the table? If they're 1sec a lap slower you've got to wonder.
But thats my suggestion from a more entertaining racers POV, if it was purely selfish reasons i'd be saying stuff reversing anyone, i wanna stay where i finished. But if its a fun series then tip it on its head and everyone stock up on rabbits feet and 4 leaf clovers.

I've NEVER suggested something shouldnt be done or that a decision is wrong, but i know what can cause more trouble than its worth and if i can point it out then i'd take it upon myself to do so rather than keep it to myself and carry on regardless of its issues/problems and the reversed grid is one of the things i feel needs reassessing for the future as mentioned and overlooked in my initial post, it could be that the tracks chosen were the problem more than the whole concept, but even if you dont feel this is the right time to be discussing future changes i dont feel it warrants the fairly hypocritical soundbytes received from mikey after the last race or dru's mercury consipiracy theory.
From the 2 sprint races so far, finish and starting places from Mercury drivers:
1st, 3rd, 4th & 6th (from places 7, 10, 11, 9)
2nd, 3rd, 8th & DNF (from 10, 11, 13, 14)
We can come through the field, and if it was all the more predictable it'd be all the more enjoyable. I love a good scrap, had good ones with Mikey & McintyreJ where i'd dropped those places and had to find a way past slightly slower drivers to regain my place, but theres the definate feeling with reversed races that if you dont act soon you'll get left behind.
As ive said, if its a grid of Mikey type drivers you could reverse the qual and race 1 for all i care, i'd know im due decent race side by side through corners without any worries and 99% of the time silly moves or mistakes. Unfortunately we dont have that.

Quote from PaulC2K :

Dru:
Its truely amazing how one persons opinion of someone can be changed so quickly!

Either you havent watched that properly or your taking the p!ss! The fact that Rooble is trying to swap lanes seeing as you've already tried forcing him onto the grass on the existing side AFTER he's already moved there, and unfortunately misread things when trying to swap to the outside for the corner where there was plenty of room but you'd insisted on forcing him to the pitwall.
Watch from overhead, 0.125 speed, watch as just after he's edged past the part where you gave him no room, he starts to pull more of the car alongside you and then backs off slightly till the point where you'd *almost* got daylight between you and tries to swap sides. If you still feel thats intentional and not you over-reacting to something petty that at most cost you 0.2 sec, then i'll accept his punishment for it, because i dont believe for one second that he'd intentionally take you out, and if you do then more fool you.

It's got nothing to do with losing time i can assure you Paul,

Regarding this matter,

What i do not understand is Franke came out of the corner and whilst he is still in the corner i have alreay started to move to the left to cover the approach on the straight, i did this every lap by the way, but why after Franke have left the corner he still came over to the left i don't know, maybe it was he had this move in mind or thought i would stay right - no idea, but he moved, then rather than lifting and losing momentum he still tried to go past me when the door was already closed. However i get the feeling that you leave half a cars width and someone thinks they can still go for that gap, run there wheels onto the grass then have a go at the guy in front for racing his line.

The lap earlier LArssen and yourself had got to my inside cleanly (as i tried to move across too late) i tried to close the door between you too but there was not space and Larssen was already on my inside (level with my rear tyre, then i have to conceed the place, i can not move across and i didn't and you were already alongside me so i also had to conceed the place, would have loved to have got in the slipstream of larssen but you were already there. it's much easier to defend when the guy doing the passing is on your outside for the next corner.

I've watched the replay several times and can not still understand why going down the straight when we are running parellel to each other that franke lifts very slightly then steers gentley intome whilst by my back qtr panel, this in my opinion is not a move to the out side and also can not be considered a general mistake as i've watched the first 5 laps of franke and hes very very clean with everyone else he has followed through that time and had been closer and not tagged anyone else, therefore i can not understand why this move was made.

If it was a genuine attempt to go to the outside then i accept that and let the matter drop however my gut feeling was something different and that it was frustration for not beeing able to pass out of the last corner, becuase i'd already covered his move to the inside, also i do not consider running someone into the pit wall when i closed the door at the last corner exit point whilst franke was still in the corner and not even along inside before his car was over lapping mine, surely that just a move to defend my position legally, ie 1 one per straight, i made it immediately and then over the course of the straight was moving back to the racing line as is my right.

Regards,

Dru.

Quote from The Moose :

Hehe, yeah..i was actually making sure you had plenty of room, and i stayed too wide and put a wheel on the grass, which caught me totally by surprise and i was just glad i managed to gather it all up without totally screwing it up for both of us

I was mightly releived that the auto cross that ensued finished up with both of us pointing the right way and still damage free

Quote from PaulC2K :

The reason its happening in Div1 more-so is because of the standard of driver in there. Its fairly evident that plenty of people were able to put in 1 lap, but throw them into a pack and it becomes something completely different. Hotlapping and Racing are 2 different things, ignoring bladey (+1.2sec) the pack of 13 cars were seperated by 1sec. Top 4 by 0.2s and top 8 by 0.4s so its not like theres slow drivers in there, but the reversed grid is a completely different kettle of fish. When those cars half a second slower (possibly done on just 1 Q lap) have faster cars behind them and are having to defend they become considerably slower, and that inturn creates more trouble. Thats why i think the WTCC method of a half-grid reversal makes more sense, flipping say the top 10 cars means they've got an easier ride but more chance of a proper scrap between drivers without 'slow-coaches' getting in the way. Do those at the very back of a grid really have a chance of finishing right up the table? If they're 1sec a lap slower you've got to wonder.
But thats my suggestion from a more entertaining racers POV, if it was purely selfish reasons i'd be saying stuff reversing anyone, i wanna stay where i finished. But if its a fun series then tip it on its head and everyone stock up on rabbits feet and 4 leaf clovers.

I've NEVER suggested something shouldnt be done or that a decision is wrong, but i know what can cause more trouble than its worth and if i can point it out then i'd take it upon myself to do so rather than keep it to myself and carry on regardless of its issues/problems and the reversed grid is one of the things i feel needs reassessing for the future as mentioned and overlooked in my initial post, it could be that the tracks chosen were the problem more than the whole concept, but even if you dont feel this is the right time to be discussing future changes i dont feel it warrants the fairly hypocritical soundbytes received from mikey after the last race or dru's mercury consipiracy theory.
From the 2 sprint races so far, finish and starting places from Mercury drivers:
1st, 3rd, 4th & 6th (from places 7, 10, 11, 9)
2nd, 3rd, 8th & DNF (from 10, 11, 13, 14)
We can come through the field, and if it was all the more predictable it'd be all the more enjoyable. I love a good scrap, had good ones with Mikey & McintyreJ where i'd dropped those places and had to find a way past slightly slower drivers to regain my place, but theres the definate feeling with reversed races that if you dont act soon you'll get left behind.
As ive said, if its a grid of Mikey type drivers you could reverse the qual and race 1 for all i care, i'd know im due decent race side by side through corners without any worries and 99% of the time silly moves or mistakes. Unfortunately we dont have that.

What i do not understand about the suggestion is that the propsal that you are talking about is only or 2 drivers different init?

I mean you talk about flipping only the top 10, but i think that last night there was 12 people, so the effect is not massive tbh?

Also the choice of tracks, mmmmmm maybe the smaller tracks are not conducive to this format - i'll accept this point At Aston Club practice race the open tracks and long straights meant that these was less havoc, so lets just see how it pans out, afterall the first two rounds have been on very tight small no error tracks havent they.
I imagine that at Aston Cadet and FE Green we will not have these same related problems that has been seen here, anyway i do hope anyway, i want people to be talking about the close exciting racing, not about how the format is not quite right.. after all i think in the practice race most people came through the field cleanly and it was a mixture of 1st and s2nd division racers , so it is possible, just maybe harder on these opening 'no error' tracks that have been used..

Regarding the people you are comfortably racing with everyones opinion would vary, i dare say that people could say that actually its the fastest people who are the most dangerous (not maliciolsly) but from the fact that you race soooo close behind people that if they make an error or a change of line thatr the guy behind does not expect, then 9 times out of ten this could result in contact or one of them spinning off. Bump drafting also is the baine of my life, if team mates wanna do it, like what you and larssen did last night with each other, thats fine, just don't do it to others. It's not fair and unless you know what you are doing its also bloody dangerous and not to mention totally un realistic

Lets just accpet that diffenret people drive differently and you can not please 100% of the people, 100% of the time.

I am very much looking forward to getting away for the weekend, away from the forums etc etc and coming back on Monday relaxed and concentrate on racing, not on whats beeing written in the forums

Best Regards,

Dru.

Paul: you're forgetting that this is the first league that these guys have run, and I think they're doing a bloody good job!

There's bound to be some things that they don't quite get right, so cut them some slack.

I noticed is was only Mercury complaining about the wind. To be honest, I couldn't care less about wind, because it's the same for everyone it just adds another element to the racing.

I could go on but my keyboard is running out of batteries.

Quote from mr_x :

Paul: you're forgetting that this is the first league that these guys have run, and I think they're doing a bloody good job!

There's bound to be some things that they don't quite get right, so cut them some slack.

I noticed is was only Mercury complaining about the wind. To be honest, I couldn't care less about wind, because it's the same for everyone it just adds another element to the racing.

I could go on but my keyboard is running out of batteries.

Thankyou for the kind words Chris,

Yes, please all bear in mind that this is the first time that anyone involved in the organising of the league has ever done anything like this, plus also most of us have only raced in one or two leagues before, this was also the intention of this league,
Fun,
Learn how to run a league,
Learn how to race and be competative in a League,
also make a league that is accessable to most people

Not really sure how any of them are going at the mo, i guess its still learning time

one other thing:

you don't see real life drivers complaining that they won't race when it starts pissing down with rain and blowing a gale, they just get on with it.

I think common sense should prevail, and have some variables which will test drivers skill and adaptability

Well paul, i hope im still entitled to my own opinion, even when you disagree with most of it.
Loading up a new instance of lfs isn't forbidden, but I did not know people actually did that. I feel it gives an advantage so I can't see why your complaining about it. I asked dru to make the round 2 break shorter and the lag start longer which to my opinion should be good enough. I'm sure next round there will be soemthing else to prevent the carnage (2 lag starts, or maybe a 5 min practice session).
And btw, I did know you were asking in round 1 for a practice session before the 2nd race, but i was taking a piss, so im sorry i didnt reply.

Concerning your reverse grid suggestion of doing only the top 10. Yea, it sounds ok, we did that too in the uxrl. Only i cant see the point as we had only 13 drivers. Dru already had such a system in mind for when patch x comes to not increase the carnage.

And about my hypocritical comments...
Yes i know i said good drivers should do this and that. And yes I know that I didnt follow those tips, but ive never said that im a good racing driver. I just said those things so that the hotlappers among us decide if it's actually worth something to pass the person in front of you.
In race 2 i thought it was. For some laps in a row I saw viper going wide in to t1, so when i was closer to him i decided to give it a try. Unfortunately he didnt go wide this time but extremely tight. I agree it was a stupid move by me. But if you see someone making the same mistake 5 times in a row you just have to try. Luckily we didnt crash out, and I gave him my position a while later. I've still not seen the replay of it, but I dont need to as I already know its my fault.

About the whole wind thing, I dont give a crap about it. I've had enough complaints about it and decided to just let it go, along with other weather options. In my opinion it would have made the racing closer and more fun, but at that moment i rather picked the choice which was more fun for me personally (not having complaints about your ideas for a day is a nice thing). If you think my opinion about mercury or you is solely based on that, sure go ahead and think that, but thats far from true

Next Sweason will be much simplier.

Finalised rules will be posted prior to signup that will enable people to make a decision about racing based on that and not changing goal posts through the season

For example

Championship length

Race/Rounds/Tracks

Qualifying 1 - 15 min
Race 1 - X laps

Qualifying 2 - 15 min
Race 2 - X laps
or
Reverse Grid - top 10 only

Wind - low
Weather - see specific round

etc etc

Much more simplier i feel, however we have needed this season under our belts to get things sorted.

Post-race thread -> post-race unofficial div 2 standings
these standings are not right... qualifing bonus and fastest bonus are not included
the zip file includes the original Excel file

Quote from Dru :

Next Sweason will be much simplier.

Finalised rules will be posted prior to signup that will enable people to make a decision about racing based on that and not changing goal posts through the season

For example

Championship length

Race/Rounds/Tracks

Qualifying 1 - 15 min
Race 1 - X laps

Qualifying 2 - 15 min
Race 2 - X laps
or
Reverse Grid - top 10 only

Wind - low
Weather - see specific round

etc etc

Much more simplier i feel, however we have needed this season under our belts to get things sorted.

well will it follow directly after this season? will it be the "June-Ham"
a suggestion for it... let the sprint race start behind a safety car -.- even if it would be only in Div 2, because if there is a reserved grid for the top 10 (we were 13 last race in Div 2), there will be a too huge difference between Pole and Winner of the last race... with a safety car and a rolling start, it wouldn't be that dangerous in the first corner!

Quote from TFalke55 :

Post-race thread -> post-race unofficial div 2 standings
these standings are not right... qualifing bonus and fastest bonus are not included
the zip file includes the original Excel file



well will it follow directly after this season? will it be the "June-Ham"
a suggestion for it... let the sprint race start behind a safety car -.- even if it would be only in Div 2, because if there is a reserved grid for the top 10 (we were 13 last race in Div 2), there will be a too huge difference between Pole and Winner of the last race... with a safety car and a rolling start, it wouldn't be that dangerous in the first corner!

This was only a suggestion or example of a simplified set of rules. - there are no immediate plans for a June-Hem.

The series is VERY demanding in terms of organisation time etc etc, so i think a break will ensue after... maybe later in the year.

Also i fancy doing someone elses league, just entering a series rather than running it who knows

Sorry about bringing this up and I don't mean any offence by it Paul but isn't watching someone's lines and braking points part of racing? If you aren't prepared to do that then you're not prepared to have a proper race IMO

Quote from rc10racer :

Here are some unofficial stats

Do we have these for Div 2? i could use em for my team page

youre doing a great job guys, keep it up, i may be slow and crap but im still enjoying the whole thing

Quote from TFalke55 :

hey where did I get all those bonus points?

Quote from anttt69 :

hey where did I get all those bonus points?

i think that is race points not bonus points (its the 3rd line), looks like no bonus points scored for anybody there??

Dru:
As i say, and yourself too, Rooble is a very clean driver. I dont beleive he'd decide to try and spin you halfway down the straight 4 laps into a 15 lap race, he didnt attempt to take you out later when trying to pass you i think you just reading a little more into it because of what led to that. Rooble actually started pulling to the left just before you did and made it perfectly clear he was going to the inside but you refused to let him and to me its not gentlemanly, not against rules or anything like that but its basically slamming a door in his face when he's making a move. But eitherway i dont for one second think he'd intentionally try and ram you out. Qsto who's got his own wacky style of 'driving' i can understand

Dru/Mikey:
For the love of all things sacred, i'll say it once more, NEXT SEASON WITH A 20+ GRID, thats when the current sprint reversal grid would be a complete nightmare. I've said this twice in this thread alone, along with the fact that im not suggesting things be changed midway through, so the number of cars on the track is irrelevent until patch X and Div 1 & 2 are combined.
If you say its already been discussed and your doing exactly what i've been saying then why are you arguing the case with me?? Why do we have to go through what the V8 series are doing and all this 'good drivers can pass anyone' soundbytes?

Mikey:
You really dont get my point about the practicing midway through do you?? I've explained it twice very clearly but its not sinking in.
Like it or lump it im spending my 5min of 'toilet, drink and feet resting break' practicing the next track, i want to do well, i want to make sure that im up to pace and that im in the rhythem for that track, if i get one corner wrong while racing and hit someone it can be the difference between a good race and many peoples races ruined. So thats MY reason for doing it.
What im asking for is for *everyone else* to be given this opportunity, however for some f*cked up reason its being perceved as if i want to gain something, if i wanted to gain from it i wouldnt tell you im doing it and i wouldnt ask for everyone to be granted 5min open track, either as well as the break or its 'take your pick'.

The Positive aspects:
Everyone gets a couple of minutes to get up to speed, find their lines and just drive. You have a more open track (which is how it is most of the time) rather than the tightly packed track we have when doing lag laps, and it allows any mistakes to be realised when its not in a live race enviroment.

The Negatives:
You spent 5min practicing, so its 5min out of your day!

Of course silly accidents will happen, its a race and sometimes no ammount of practicing will help, but where we have 15min of qual before the first race we have 2-3 tightly packed laps where IMO the majority arent really paying too much attention or take it too seriously.
Case in point - Kaw ramping the middle chicane rather than driving properly.
Sure if some dont want to do this then thats their choice and if they make a mistake which causes an accident they have no excuse if thats their attitude IMO. If we were racing on the same track reverse grid it wouldnt be a problem, but because its a new track, new lines and brake points (with and without others around you) i think it should be allowed for people just to have a few minutes to drive round freely. The lag lap is on the right lines, and IMO is a good idea for helping improve chances of a clean race for the proper start, but would it harm to allow people who wish to the chance to do a couple of laps.
I spotted the 'dont want to give some people an advantage' reason for not doing this in the 5min break, but come on, what happened to the 'this is a fun series', were talking about trying to ensure that EVERYONE has a good clean race, trying to remove as many of the silly mistakes as possible, not all because its impossible, but as many as can be. What negative reason is there for it? I've given dozens of positives and the only reason against is to give equal rights for those wanting a pee, drink or rest. If people need to rest their feet then maybe i can understand that, but surely 1hr into the round people dont need to take a leak or get a drink, why cant these things be done beforehand?? I cant comment on sore feet as i dont have that problem with my G25 (im a pussy, im using clutch pedal for brake ) but that *to me* is possibly a valid reason, but the others are a little silly.


Mr_X:
1st season? really?? Thanks for pointing that out, had NO idea.
Havent spent pretty much every other day listening to Dru's ideas and solutions on how to make things work for that not to have sunk in you know. Plenty of things have been done to ensure that the series is a success, and it has been, but when (other) people are currently saying they've been screwed over in both sprint races and i've had it happen to me on the test race (with a much larger grid) then im going to try and highlight its problems if we do go to a fuller (20+) grid.
As for the wind, as i said in the thread we were discussing this, name me ONE series where the cars go onto the track with the lights about to go red/green and have no idea which way the wind is blowing. Your asking everyone to be on the same wavelength for when to brake for the first turn AND predict the direction the wind is blowing and how much of an effect that will be.
You'd do practice in one condition and in every likelyhood the race in something completely different. Thats more unrealistic than the possibility that there is no wind. If it was a server setting, wind = NW speed=10, then f*ck yeah bring it on. instead its wind = you'll find out the first time you see a flag, speed = i'll tell you on the grid.
Its a fun league, wheres the fun in 'he didnt brake in time', 'didnt think it was that windy' or 'the wind pushed me'. I didnt say they shouldnt have it, but i wanted to point out the problems of running with it. Of course it wasnt interpreted that way because thats too easy, its taken as 'i want dull lifeless hotlapping style racing' rather. If a bit of wind is whats needed to make this series fun then its failed before its even begun. Have it, dont have it, whatever, but im pointing out reasons against it so they're aware of them.

Leifde:
Of course it is, and because you bring that up without anything to reference what your refering to... your point being?
I spent 3 laps behind Dru, he was braking at places that dont need to be braked for, however i knew he was doing it (despite knowing he wasnt in practicing) and thats why we never made contact. In fact i think i made contact with 1 person in the whole race, and that was on lap 2 trying to pass dru and viper, any other contact was slight taps/rubs side by side (Dru: it wasnt bump-drafting, i was thinking i could use both drafts to go by both but hit viper at an angle, causing him to slightly nudge into you, but it was my intention to pass you not sit behind you.)
For the rest of that race, and i'd also go as far as saying the Feature race, in which we race closely for a few laps as me and mike did (3 passes in 2 laps) and there was no contact made. I know how to go about close racing, however right towards the end of the race 2 cars touch on T1 and could easily have collected me, which was what happened over and over in the test race. Racing is racing, i can race just fine, not always the fastest but can race and thats one reason I quite happy to do reversed grid, i can drive side by side and overtake people cleanly. I'd bet Kaw was the only person able to say they had a cleaner race.


mikey: The whole 'Mercury' based comments is what i object to, that mercury is always moaning is a generalisation on which is nonsense yet was aimed at us. Asside from myself who's been asked for an opinion on pretty much every aspect of this series, Pecker has said he didnt like the wind. Thats it, Viper hasnt said anything, Rooble hasnt said anything.
Yet MERCURY is always moaning. Its as fair as saying ZWR is always taking people out because you made 1 mistake.

oh, as mentioned in last nights post i'd agree that i dont think the first 2 tracks we've had the sprint race on has helped trial this system.
Club is basically 3 corners, and they're not corners that encourage overtaking and make it easier to make a pass, so 15 laps or 30, its the same corners and you need help from the person you want to pass more often than not. Sprint 1 was that same, perhaps a little easier particularly if you were within drafting distance onto the motorway.

Aston cadet is a great track for UF1s to overtake, theres places to make safe dives down the inside and theres many more corners which makes passing easier to acheive. Green is the same, only it has more corners because its a bigger track rather than Cadet being a small track with no real straights. Town is the same (though it wont have the reversed grid).

Maybe SO Classic would have been a better option than the sprints, its not much better it has to be said, but there are better/safe opportunities to make a pass (although it is a bit dull). Love SO2 & SO3R, likewise FE Club (BL1, FE1 & SO3R are my fav combos), but they're tricky to pass on and the reversed aspect only makes it harder and less predictable.

Extended race stats for division two can be found on the following page,

http://www.piston-broke.com/UF/

Quote from FOGlegsy :

i think that is race points not bonus points (its the 3rd line), looks like no bonus points scored for anybody there??

I did not know who drove the fastest lap and who got howmany points for the qualifing... i'll add them... but it stays unofficial, aslong as the admin (Butz) don't call them official!

so here is are the updated standings incl. Bonus points for fastest laps and for the top 3 of the qualifing

Thanks!

Quote from PaulC2K :

mikey: The whole 'Mercury' based comments is what i object to, that mercury is always moaning is a generalisation on which is nonsense yet was aimed at us. Asside from myself who's been asked for an opinion on pretty much every aspect of this series, Pecker has said he didnt like the wind. Thats it, Viper hasnt said anything, Rooble hasnt said anything.
Yet MERCURY is always moaning. Its as fair as saying ZWR is always taking people out because you made 1 mistake.

I think I said that I didn't base my entire opinion about who or whatever on the whole wind issue. It's based on other things which don't have anything to do with this league. At the moment I cant be arsed to quote myself on that, so you can look for it yourself.

I did not know that kaw treated the lag start as a joke, haven't seen the replay yet as I haven't had any time. So maybe a 5 minutes practice session isn't a bad idea, but only after a short 2-3 minute break so people can still take a leak or rest their feet. And yes, some people need to rest their feet. Some people might have stiffer springs in their pedals, use squashballs or use a load cell which requires 30 kgs for 100% braking. Good for you that you use the clutch pedal as a brake, but I rather think about the people who use one of the above so it's still fun for their feet.