Lots of people try LFS demo and they think that the game sucks. Any guesses why? Because the demo's car choices suck.

XFG, XRG and XRT have been there since the beginning... maybe those did represent LFS in S1 days but now we have a lot more interesting and faster cars. Those are maybe the most boring cars too (one reason might be that we have played with them so much in the demo). Some people might even think that LFS is some kind of "Gran Turismo clone" with just regular saloon cars.

Of course the devs don't want that the demo "shows too much" but with these cars - it doesn't represent the wide collection of cars that LFS really has. My own suggestion is that XFG and XRG should stay but XRT should be replaced by some GTR car (maybe XRR). Now it would also have a car with slicks. And XRT makes XRG a bit useless.

If the demo car choices are not going to change I think it should have stupid "BUY THE LICENCE NOW!" screens when quitting. At least then people would know that LFS offers fast race-cars too and not just slow runabouts.

There's nothing wrong with the Blackwood GP track but I think it's not the best "first track to drive".

I have said many times to people that whole version of LFS is a different game than the demo. Actually I wasn't interested in LFS until I drooled those GTR screenshots on the web page.

i dunno what other demo people play for years.
i said years, not months, not weeks, not days, not hours.
when i play a demo for a couple of hours till i finish it its usually a great game. lfs is something else, much beyond.

yeah some nagscreens with screenshots of the s2 content would be great,
however if you replace the lets say XRT with XRR, people would just download the old (XRT) version of the demo and unzip next to the new (XRR) one. wee, 4 cars ...

Maybe the cars could be exchanged in the first release of the s3 demo, where there'll be a bigger difference.

hmm.. now that there are nice cars around, I was thinking maybe the demo should have GTI, FZ50 and MRT5 (as the only cars)? these cars demonstrate the different kinds of physics and car variations that LFS has. It would leave much to be desired IMHO which is what the demo should do IMHO. I think this selection of cars represents LFS better than the current selection.

Make S2 demos/replays be viewable with demo liscenses and include some hot races as a "preview of S2 content". Maybe use some community help to create those demos?

Whatever, we really need some "what do I miss out?" button that shows these demos, or maybe even better: sort of a demo collage, showing the best moments of several races in all car classes. Why demo? Because a video is 1) big, and 2) pretty unpersonal. With a demo you can experience everything first hand - you can see the physics engine working live.


What we do NOT need is different demo content. Seriously, people are cheap bastards and already playing this demo for years. Giving them "food" to enjoy the demo even more (and therefore not buy S2)? Sorry but no.

I agree that the presentation of S2 content is poor, but giving the demo players even MORE for FREE is a big fat NO

You don't get it...illepall

You're not on the same wavelength as the devs are...

When I first tried LFS in june 2003, the first beta, I took the GTI for a lap on BL, and there couldn't be any misunderstanding... The car handling was amazing , physics was one of the best, graphics were quite poor, but good enough to have a real *sim* experience... that's what count !

And still today, as I play from time to time, I really enjoy driving the small cars because that's what I know and that's how my car *would* react...

Did you chek GTR demo ? Maybe it suites you best

But, don't get me wrong, I understand that what you're asking for is for the "good" of LFS... But I would prefer that all the sim-racer join, not all the game-racer...

There are 3 cars, 4 tracks (rallycross and normal and the reversed ones). There is unlimited offline and online play, no time or lap limits. Not sure, pitstops and all other stuff too.

The choise of cars has been done a long ago and therefore it is the 3 cars. Maybe some slicks car but which? Maybe the biggest thing the demo players worry about S2 is the tire model? Do the slick tire cars slide all the time as the xrt does (no)...

The current set: XFG, XRG and XRT is ok. Though I can't find any use for the XRG, except for the lustg..

OT: hmm, does the slickmod work with demo? If yes, there is a racecar - XRTs (s for slicks)

Thanks for so many replies in so little time... A comment from the devs would be good. I think this is a bigger thing than it looks like. Demo is the thing that gives the first impression for everyone.

Quote from AndroidXP :

I agree that the presentation of S2 content is poor, but giving the demo players even MORE for FREE is a big fat NO

Good point but it should be done somehow incompatible with the previous version of demo. But if someone hacks it so what? Isn't it important to get more people buy LFS? With the current car set lots of people (NOT everyone) doesn't find it interesting enough. If they did they would probably consider getting the licence.

Quote from KTy :

When I first tried LFS in june 2003, the first beta, I took the GTI for a lap on BL, and there couldn't be any misunderstanding... The car handling was amazing , physics was one of the best, graphics were quite poor, but good enough to have a real *sim* experience... that's what count !

Indeed, back in JUNE 2003... there wasn't GTR cars, there wasn't S2. As I said the car choices have been there since the beginning and they where representative in S1 days but not anymore.

Quote :

Did you chek GTR demo ? Maybe it suites you best

Huh? Maybe you got it wrong. I am S2 licensed.

Quote from Hyperactive :

There are 3 cars, 4 tracks (rallycross and normal and the reversed ones). There is unlimited offline and online play, no time or lap limits. Not sure, pitstops and all other stuff too.

Those numbers look good (at least when comparing to some commercial game's demos with time limits) but simply those doesn't represent the current WIDE selection of cars.

I really wouldn't like to give any of the GTR cars away for free since they are the things that most people want to drive and that's why they buy the lisence. I bought the game because of them too. (there isn't any other good simulator with these cars imho ) Well, let's give the FXR (not)

But the people thinking about buying the S2 have to make the decision without any specific knowledge about the cars, since there are no slick tire cars in demo. And these cars do behave differently. Maybe XRR with 100hp less power...no, a bad idea, I'd like to drive that too

i think the biggest problem with the demo is the attitude of a lot of racers out there. i remember (long long ago) my shock at how clean and adult the licenced servers were. that was simply due to the completely different atmosphere of demo servers, i really can't race on demo servers anymore, the behavior is shocking sometimes. (ok ok i'm ranting)

i would suggest removing the XRT from the lineup altogether as if you've got the skills to drive it fast, you'll probably be playing for at least a few months anyhow.

it's the best demo i've ever played (of any game anywhere) and it certainly is the thing that sells most licences. BUT as most of you know, a LOT of people are taking the piss. people do need to know how much better off they'll be if they'd bought a licence, there's quite a bit of misunderstanding about what you actually get for you're money, (and i don't mean cars and tracks, i mean PROPER RACING)

Maybe a baby formula car - about the same lap times as the XRG, but slicks and low weight/CoG. But not wings, and not much performance. Oh, and make it really fragile too, so that they HAVE to race cleanly...

It's got to be good enough to make it enjoyable and usable, but slow and frustrating enough to try to get people to pay for a better version - perhaps the same car but with a touch more power and/or wings.

Just a thought :S

If the idea is to give people a taste of the slick-tire cars, then I think the MRT is the way to go. The GTR cars for the most part just feel like more powerful, better-gripping ersions of their stock counterparts, while the MRT has a very unique handling style. At the same time, the MRT is very poorly suited to racing on Blackwood--long straight+low top speed=frustration. In other words, people can get a taste of the high performance capabilities of the other cars in LFS without being able to fully enjoy them.

I agree with the suggestion that the selection of cars be changed to XFG, FZ5, and MRT. I think this selection gives a much more representative range of what the game is like at this point--the classic low-power class, the high-performance street class, and the crazy slick tired cars.

You still have a very limited choice of tracks (compared to how many there are in the full version), and the MRT on blackwood, as mentioned, gets frustrating after a while. I admit that this version of the demo would be "better" than the current one, but S2 is better than S1, and we want people to know that.

Quote from Theafro :

it's the best demo i've ever played (of any game anywhere) and it certainly is the thing that sells most licences.

Not a straight reply to what you said but I want to say this: A perfect demo gives you a taste and an example of what the full version offers. LFS demo doesn't do that because the faster cars are a whole another world. I don't mean it's a bad demo but it would be much more representative. (Goes a bit off topic but the best demo I've played is Half-Life Uplink because it had a whole new level specially made for that demo. It brilliantly summed up the diversity of the full version into a short level.)

Quote :

BUT as most of you know, a LOT of people are taking the piss. people do need to know how much better off they'll be if they'd bought a licence, there's quite a bit of misunderstanding about what you actually get for you're money, (and i don't mean cars and tracks, i mean PROPER RACING)

Well that's a problem in any multiplayer demo.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Maybe a baby formula car - about the same lap times as the XRG, but slicks and low weight/CoG. But not wings, and not much performance. Oh, and make it really fragile too, so that they HAVE to race cleanly...

something like that little formula car in rFactor?

http://www.bhmotorsports.com/sims/RFAC/screenshots/89.jpg

possibly downsized slightly more though would be nicer, that one looks similar to the FOX size

I was thinking

This

Baby formula car IS the MRT
And oh my, we've had SO much fun with the MRT on blackwood. I just made it sub 1.25 when s2 demo came out it would definately make one desperately wanting to try the FOX and FO8

I think there's two ways to look at this:

1) The XFG and XRG are good, but the XRT could be replaced with something a little more different to show the diversity and different handling characterisitics on offer. Thus tempting more people to buy the game. It however is essentially making the demo better, which obviously has a flip side.

2) None of the cool cars are in the demo, I remember from playing lots of shareware games 10 years ago that if the game was fun, but all the coolest stuff was only in the full game, man did I want it! But then I was only 10, and easily persuaded at that age (not any more! ).

Quote from avih :

Baby formula car IS the MRT
And oh my, we've had SO much fun with the MRT on blackwood. I just made it sub 1.25 when s2 demo came out it would definately make one desperately wanting to try the FOX and FO8

ya but the MRT is a real car.. you should have to pay to be able to race the MRT

-so said tristan

I think the demo is fine personally, although i would admit, a faster car would have been nice, but that would stop peopel from buying it. I played the demo for 2 years before investing in S2, althoguh that was mainly because i had no one to race with.

I vote (if it matters at all) for no more demo content
but the next patch with the AI fix, and tyre fix would be nice.

those who find the demo boring are cheapskates anyway. Those who're newcommers will find the ai unplayable and the online races dirty on demo servers.

These are the problems - IMHO - not the content. The content is generous for a demo.

If there is a need for some kind of car in the demo, it certainly is a car with slicks = a race car. Maybe give the UFR? Sure, a fwd, but who said it must be rwd? So then we had 2 fwd and 2 rwd cars... Maybe giving the MRT would make the car more popular as there are hardly any servers running it? Imho, replacing the XRT with FZ5 or other would do no good as the car is pretty much the same as the XRT plus some more power...

If I could redo the whole demo car system:
- RB4 - 4 wheel drive rallycross car
- XRT - powerful rwd car
- UFR - fwd race car

Or not...

Quote from ysu :

I vote (if it matters at all) for no more demo content
but the next patch with the AI fix, and tyre fix would be nice.

those who find the demo boring are cheapskates anyway. Those who're newcommers will find the ai unplayable and the online races dirty on demo servers.

These are the problems - IMHO - not the content. The content is generous for a demo.

:iagree: Most people I know (personally) who race or have raced in real life have negative comments about the known issues of AI awareness and the tyre situation not being quite right (i.e. recovery from spin and slow speed grip) they generally are very positive about all other aspects of the sim .. so getting the AI and tyre model up to a little higher level would do alot more for the sim than more content in the demo mode imo (and that is the course I believe the developers are going in anyways)

One idea that was mentioned earlier in the thread which I think would aid greatly in the maketing of the product is being able to view S2 content replays, even if it's only a selection of replays the developers choose

Quote from deggis :

Lots of people try LFS demo and they think that the game sucks.

How could they think that? I don't believe they can. The demo I played several years ago wasn't one hundredth as good as the current demo, yet even back then it was obvious where LFS was going. Anyone trying the current demo will be struck almost immediately by the awesome physics and car behaviour. It only takes a couple of laps to see what this sim promises. Anything beyond is a free ride. And, apparently, an infinitely enjoyable one to many people.

Quote from Gunn :

How could they think that? I don't believe they can.

I don't mean everyone thinks that way but still too many. I know some people who have played the demo and they think LFS "simulates driving on ice". The problem is that they just don't believe full version is better. I bet they would change their opinion if they had a chance to test it with better cars with slicks.