You´re going way to far with your last suggestion..

edit: imho

Quote from fujiwara :

This type of conversation is not new.

pff, i just marked several points about diffirent things, and its not just ONE point to disagree. There are even points u can't disagree too bacause they are fact. So when someone just says "i disagree" he's totally insane and prolly just suffered braindamage.

Quote from BruTaLysT :

omg, at least say why and on which points u disagree. Now we can't have a decent conversation.

Here is another thread where I have replied to about the subject. http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=17441
Use the search to find more threads about controller elitism.

Quote from Mr.Muh :

You´re going way to far with your last suggestion..

edit: imho

Why too far, it would be a nice OPTION so all can drive the same way. But just as a serverside option. Same like the serverside 'reset' option used now. It certaily has potential bacause all topspeed drivers i talked with would really like such an option so players can't cheat by using a much easier way to shift.

It's going a bit to the extreme side perhaps, but it's just an OPTION, u can turn it OFF. But this is not the right topic to discuss this, so i'm sorry i even started this in here. Plz forgive me

My comment referred to "make S3 a wheel-only game".

Options are fine..

Ok, i agree with that, it would be very uncool to abandon all keyboard/mouse players, they at least need to be able to play the game without having a wheel. Still would like the options though, and i encountered this word 'elitist' several times now which is a bit bothersome. There really seems a big gap between the good and normal drivers, even disgrace. I have nothing against the whole community, LFS is great the way it is getting support so i even like all the very bad drivers and i help them all the time. I don't like to put such suggestions into 'elite' thinking. Terrible word

I'm on keyboard and I can say I'm doing pretty well (Ask peoples like lfsn00b, niall06 or dj-fluxsa). I'm sure it's much funnier with a wheel but a waiting a few years to get a high end PC and a DFP. Until then, I'll still be using my keyboard, but I might move to mouse if I see a noticeable driving feel/easyness compared to keyboard.

J. Jacques

Edit: By the way I use:

Keyboard stabilised
ABS off
Full clutch

And it's as smooth as drifting with a mouse

Quote from Riders Motion :

I'm on keyboard and I can say I'm doing pretty well (Ask peoples like lfsn00b, niall06 or dj-fluxsa). I'm sure it's much funnier with a wheel but a waiting a few years to get a high end PC and a DFP. Until then, I'll still be using my keyboard, but I might move to mouse if I see a noticeable driving feel/easyness compared to keyboard.

I'm pretty sure you can drive quite well with keyboard, i encounter lots of keyboard users who drive pretty 'ok' times, pro-mouse drivers can compete with pro-wheel drivers. The only problem could be the throttle/brake which is not accurate enough but u could use a joystick or even midi controllers to get this done better. When i need to brake into T1 on AS CLUB i need to brake 100%, then 50%, near the apex 10%, then slowly raise the power to 100% throttle. Last turn on the track i can't brake 100% at all, it locks at 80% so precise braking is crucial. It seems impossible to do this with digital keys...

But this is not MY main concern!, the problem is, that digital steering input is not handled well by the network code, cars seem to judder and shake around the track because of faulty interpolation. THAT is my main concern, if u don't get my point it's no problem. I need someone who agrees with this statement of this being a problem to other drivers around the keyboard driver because it's damn scary!!

Quote from BruTaLysT :

My problem is, that digital steering input is not handled well by the network code

Are you sure about that?
Stabilised keyboard steering isnt that digital, like left/center/right?


Since this thread has gone offtopic anyway: whats this lag-indicator all about?

What´s the green stripe, that´s me? And at which length will I be "laggy" for other players?

Dfp is ordered

Quote from Mr.Muh :

Since this thread has gone offtopic anyway: whats this lag-indicator all about?

Here is the explanation for the lag meter: http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Display#Latency.2FLag_bars

Congrats on ordering your DFP, you won't regret it



Well, i don't know if this statement of mine is true, but always when i encounter a Keyboard player his car is going like mad, almost impossible to pass. Or these drivers clearly can't drive at all, or there is some input not handled very well, so the driver actually drives quite well, but to others it seems like he is waving around the track. It also seems it's impossible to drive a straight line. If the actual player really played like this he would be getting sick so i can imagine it has something to do with how the code is handled.

Also i talk about behaviour in the latest official patch, not the testpatches. I don't know if they have changed something to the keyboard input lately, seems like stabilized keyboard has something to do with interpolation between far left/right so they might already have a solution for this problem in the recent testpatches? If that's the case i'm so sorry i went on and on about this and being stupid

There is no interpolation (as such) for LFS network packets, the steering system is irrelevant.

Quote from BruTaLysT :

a pc geek who adores his beloved mouse far too much

Yes, i am such a guy

Driving with only one hand - this mean the other hand is absolutely free for the watch out buttons.
Mouse X = steering
Mouse Y = throttle and brake combined
Mouse left button = handbrake
Mouse right button = horn or watch back
Mouse wheel = gear shifting up and down
Mouse middle = half automatic clutch
Arrow-Buttons = Watch out

This rocks absolutely more than every wheel!

Mouse steering setup

Quote from BruTaLysT :

omg, at least say why and on which points u disagree. Now we can't have a decent conversation.

You should think about the consequences before making suggestion
LFS would lose many players

Hi all,
new here on this forum and furthermore demo - maybe taking chances now...
I enjoy this game, demo content is way too much to be free and I should pay for S2 only to thanks the devs for the good time I already had.
Money is not an issue but only credit card available back home is my wife's and the negociations have started poorly at the best, maybe a few more months / years / decades will be necessary.

On topic now
I am limited in this game by a few things and would appreciate assistance:
I play on company laptop (home=mac) good enough for 40+fps is all demo situations so that should work.
I have no space to accomodate a wheel and it would be years before I can do that, plus I would not be able to use it for noise / kids / wife issues. So I use the mouse to steer.
I used keyboard for throttle / brake and clutch / gears, but throttle control is poor - feasible for GTI but no reliable enough for the 2 other RWDs.
I tried mouse Y axis for throttle / brake and I can not get used to it.
I would like to have steer and throttle on mouse axis X and Y, brake on mouse button. I tried separate axis (attached pic) but then I have no brake anymore. This leads to typical demo driving situations
Is there a way to have throttle on mouse axis Y and brake on a mouse button?
How is the handbrake working? I could tie hanbrake to a mouse button if it works like the brake for a (frustratingly unrealistic) quick fix.

So this issue is the only reason why I register on this forum now, although I enjoy reading it (at work...) frequent demo bashing makes me reluctant to venture on Jakg and the likes ground (although I love reading Jakg's posts).

Sorry for the long post and thanks to dev team for the game and to the community for making it live.

Afraid not. With a stable set and some practise, mouse steering and button throttle is suitable for for cars than you'd think. I drove with the mouse back in S1 days and it sufficed for all cars, even the LXs with some patience and nimble fingerwork. Given that it's easier to drive over the limit in LFS now, you just need more practise. I still use mouse occasionally and it's quite controllable, though I'w not as good with it as I used to be. For how long have you been playing LFS?

The idea for analogue throttle and digital brakes has been around for a while, a friend of mine used to play with joystick and with the throttle slider on the base, such a setup would have been ideal. I wouldn't recommend using the handbrake.

Basically, just keep at it. You'll get the hang of it in time. If you don't keep trying with the XRG, you'll never get the hong of it. Better yet, try with the XRT, then once you get used to it, switch to the XRG and you'll discover how easy it is, all of a sudden.

Good luck convincing the wife.

I did have alot of fun with a keyboard.. that's definitly possible, but a wheel is even alot more fun!

Even when you think you won't get used to a wheel.. you will.

I played this game for about 2 weeks with keyboard and bought a g25.. at first it felt wierd and i was getting worse lap times for a longer period than i was expecting for sure! I even doubted if i would get used to it.

Now after some time.. i never ever want to race with a keyboard again, a wheel is a must for this! But make sure your wheel and you are in a good position. For example if your wheel is placed too low, it's way harder to control. (i had to fix that because i have some sort of badly designed pc desk

Good luck!

Been playing for too long considering I'm still demo user - first download was version Q I think. I Played only offline with some AI (not often, less than 1/2 hour per week) and started online when I received a decent laptop, that was during the W-30ish test patches I think.
During race I can do approx 1.35 consistantly with XFG and 1.36 with XRG - XRT 1.26, usually enough to stay in the 1st half of the pack.
I play a bit more now, this leading to the wife issues and went though your setup guides and the forum helped a lot, thanks.

So I will probably carry on tapping mouse buttons for a while . RWD are more interesting and rewarding to drive but I like closer races with XFG (until the usual crasher pops up to even chances)

Quote from Mille Sabords :

RWD are more interesting and rewarding to drive but I like closer races with XFG

Same here My friend and me literally spent nights with racing the xfg door-to-door when he was still a demo user.

You might consider buying a gamepad, wont take much space and you´ll have 2 analogue sticks to use, however you will have to convince your wife again.
Besides that, a decent gamepad will cost you as much as a Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel, assuming that you live in Switzerland and could order you Dfp in Germany for 34,50 Eur.

Tricky situation
family > pcgame