Hello and welcome to LFSCAR,

as we are approaching season 2 of the LFSCAR 360degree.tk CUP SERIES, we are about to have a Warm-Up Event tomorrow Monday 14th of May at 18.15 UTC on the "(FM)360° Event!" Server. The server runs under the latest Test-Patch so if you want to take part make sure you have a copy of LFS running with this patch.

We invite all drivers who have applied to the series no matter if they have been accepted so far or not, just to give everyone a chance.

The Schedule will be like on a normal event like following:
- Single Qualifying; 1 outlap 2 fastlaps
- 6 Laps sprint race with flying start but NO CAUTION during the race
- 60 Lap race on KY Oval (half the length of a league race) with flying start and full CAUTION rules. Mandatory Pitstop

After the 60 lap race, we will have some shorter races on the autocros-based-ovals just to make sure they work.

Please be there on time so there won't be any big delays. As required in the inscription please make sure to have Ventrillo installed according to this website: www.fragmaster.net/vt. I will give out the pre-race information there and it makes coordinating this events much easier. You DON'T need a microphone, as you don't need to talk but listening. If you are experience bandwidth problems with the program, you are free to quit it after pre-race information.

We will meet at the "Event" channel (just doubleclick it).

Don't expect Teamspeak to work tomorrow, i am working on it.

i think this is it.

cheers and see you on track
Fischfix


PS: The event MIGHT by a chance for sharing setups

PPS: Lucky Dog rule states that the first driver one lap down automatically gets his lap back when the caution comes out. Exception: during last 10 laps of the race. there won't be any double file restart during last 10 laps of a race. There won't be any minor Caution during last 3 laps of a race.

I will be there.

Im sorry i cant make it, is that okay? I have a Higher Maths exam the next morning and i just really cant spend a couple of hours on LFS when they can be used studying. Im free for the rest of the monday nights, its just this one.

no problem mate. exam first!

Just one question that not only concerns tonight's event. Will there be multiple servers to make sure everyone can race? It would be a quite annoying to plan in three hours of LFS, only to fail at qualifying.

sorry no, not at this stage of the whole thing. in first season we were lucky when we had more then 12 cars on track (with the exeption of the first and last race). the amount of active drivers decreases during a season. and i know some of them drive only certain combos. however thats one thing a qualifying is for. for the autocross layouts we will see how many can actually race there and the chance for a second server

if there are that much drivers today as have inscribed we will think about a second server. the server is not the problem but the admin and pacecar-drive. which needs some coordination.. FM has lots of servers which is not a big problem if there are really more then let's say 35 drivers around.

but that is also the test-race for, to see who is actually coming. how is the acceptance. i know that there are some drivers not coming today because they can't. we will see.

and the best tip i can give you: PRACTICE; PRACTICE; PRACTICE.

for me as an example, i think, that i won't be qualified on the aston race, just becaus i am not a good circuit driver and there a bunch of good ones.

BUT (this is a big BUT)

YOUR WORST RESULT WILL BE CANCELED IN THE STANDINGS ANYWAY.
It does not matter if it was a 5th, 22nd or a "did not qualify". your worst result out of the 10 races will be canceled.

Ah I see. I hadn't thought of the need for a second pace car driver. I just checked what the current player limit is and it's 32 cars for patch W23 so I guess it mostly won't be a problem. See you this evening.

I will try and make it, but might be stuck elsewhere... if I make it will pop on server!

Two more quick questions:

Where can I get the autocross and dragstrip tracks from to practice on?

What's the easiest way to setup voice chat so that I can always listen to race control and listen and speak to my team mates in private by holding a wheel button to talk.

ATM it seems I need Ventrillo for race control, TS for private chat and joytokey to map the wheel button. The problems I had with ventrillo is that I couldn't find a way to connect to multiple servers (race control and private) or create a private channel or switch between channels by keypress.

yep i need to know that too... i use joy2key. it is a freeware program which lets you set any key or key-combination onto your wheel.

Just my 2c worth And its Constructive, This is what I would change the format too... but its only my ideas

Restart - Single File! NO Lucky Dog ! Slow cars can go to the outside but you can not overtake unless the slower cars dont keep up with the pace car. Race leaders can keep what ever pace they want after the pace car leaves, No over taking to you pass the start finish straight

Pace Car Speed - 60mph....fine when cars are upside down but you need to increase the pace car speed for 2 laps to try and get some heat in the tires. Especialy if the Caution goes on for 30 laps..lol. This might stop the RESTART CRASH RESTART CRASH and so on...



WE CAN WORK IT OUT

I hope will be next "practice-event"...

You guys might like this

http://www.dynoflow.co.uk/banditsystem/

Just gonna post a quick list of problems I saw today. Not bashing, just trying to help.

-chaotic Ventrillo chat causing more problems than helping race control --> channel should be listen only with fishhfix being the only one talking.

-problems with some messages: blue flag overrides green flag message and laptimes, yellow flag overrides drivethrough penalty message etc. I don't know if this can be fixed without Scawen changing something.

-lack of information for drivers and probably race control too: difficult to tell whether you are on the lead lap, which cars are on the same lap, who is directly in front/behind you etc. This makes it almost impossible to have organized cautions. Again we probably need Scawen's help here although I don't now how powerfull insim/outsim is to fix these kind of problems.

-organisation (chat and voice chat) needs to be clearer and without delays for discussions etc. Just short commands, if people don't follow them, issue penalties or spectate them.

-after using car reset I went to the pits to do another reset as stated in the rules. But I couldn't do a reset there because LFS told me "reset not possible, would cause a yellow flag". So maybe this should be changed to drivethrough?

-I didn't like how after the main race the organizers decided to have long discussions in ventrillo instead of either declaring the event over or getting on with it.


As I said, I'm not here to flame, I'll be there at the next race and I hope that some improvements can be made until then. I'm sure that if people learn the rules and concentrate and let fischfix get on with his job then this series can work.

Hobaman, in case you're reading here, why did you spin me on lap 50? I watched the replay and I can't see how it could have been unintentional.

thanks for your constructive critic, i will have a close look at them.

some of the things can't be changed due to the game (blue-flag overrides RCM messages and stuff)

as i am not racing in the series anymore ((( me and orgi will be the only one in ventrillo who are allowed to talk. i loved to race but as it looks now, it isn't possible. just to let you know, in the beginning i said, i will only do a 2nd season if i can race in it.

i won't make any voice-chat mandatory. you don't have to be there (it helps a lot if only race-control gives you information. but as it was yesterday when people where yelling about everything it just distracts everyone from racing.

we won't do double-file RE!starts in the future, however i will keep the lucky dog rule. and double-file at the normal start.

what was interesting for me is, the SPRINT-RACE went pretty well with everyone watching ...

... more answers will come

Quote from J.B. :

Just gonna post a quick list of problems I saw today. Not bashing, just trying to help.

-chaotic Ventrillo chat causing more problems than helping race control --> channel should be listen only with fishhfix being the only one talking.

exactly. me and the pacecar-driver

Quote from J.B. :

-problems with some messages: blue flag overrides green flag message and laptimes, yellow flag overrides drivethrough penalty message etc. I don't know if this can be fixed without Scawen changing something.

i can't do anything about it. thats also ventrillo for. if you are not certain, just ask and racecontroll (me) will give you the information in the future.
BUT race-controll won't tell you why your stop and go penalty is not cleared when you don't wait 10 sec.*g*

Quote from J.B. :

-lack of information for drivers and probably race control too: difficult to tell whether you are on the lead lap, which cars are on the same lap, who is directly in front/behind you etc. This makes it almost impossible to have organized cautions. Again we probably need Scawen's help here although I don't now how powerfull insim/outsim is to fix these kind of problems.

yep in the future there will be the pacecar driver and me (or an other admin) doing this stuff and helping you out with that.

Quote from J.B. :

-organisation (chat and voice chat) needs to be clearer and without delays for discussions etc. Just short commands, if people don't follow them, issue penalties or spectate them.

not following race-control commands will result in stop/go-penalty in the future

Quote from J.B. :

-after using car reset I went to the pits to do another reset as stated in the rules. But I couldn't do a reset there because LFS told me "reset not possible, would cause a yellow flag". So maybe this should be changed to drivethrough?

thanks for reading the rules. it was exactly what i expect everyone to do.
in the future i will give a stop/go penalty for every flipped car on the normal tracks (not on the autocross). you will be NOT ALLOWED to do a reset in the pitroad on normal tracks in the future. this will cause a race-disqualification after the race because of cheating.

Quote from J.B. :

-I didn't like how after the main race the organizers decided to have long discussions in ventrillo instead of either declaring the event over or getting on with it.

that was true, in the plan was a short race on one of the ovals but, as the long race was lasting that long i totally forgot about it. but i think the discussion after the race was more important. as ventrillo isn't mandatory in the future you just can leave after the "finish-foto" which we do after each race with all cars lined up on the track.

Quote from J.B. :

As I said, I'm not here to flame, I'll be there at the next race and I hope that some improvements can be made until then. I'm sure that if people learn the rules and concentrate and let fischfix get on with his job then this series can work.

thanks for your critics, this is exactly why i did a warm-up event just to sort everything out.

Quote from J.B. :

Hobaman, in case you're reading here, why did you spin me on lap 50? I watched the replay and I can't see how it could have been unintentional.

that is an issue i will look at when doing the race-analysis. if it turns out intentional it will be probably 25pts penalty. i will have a look at it.

I know that the race overall was a disaster but I also think there were many positives that mean people should stick with this.

For starters the short race went almost without fault, I think only two crashes (unlucky Fish!!!) which is what you would expect. Also when we actually got racing, again no problems.

A few other changes that have not been posted up yet but were mentioned on Vent. I really do believe that the pace car phase is too long. Agrivated drivers have nothing to do but sit and get more annoyed and be worrying about what the cars around are going to do at the flag. I too made an error on the restart and caused crash three (sorry again :schwitzand I would consider myself a very careful racer.

Another idea on the restart that I liked was this one. After the pace car pulls into the pits, I think that the front car should be able to speed up as they wish from then, but cannot loose speed/brake once thay start to build up the pace. This gives the advantage to the front runners (like it should be) and not the backmarkers.

As far as the reports go: I think I experienced three seperate offences but as it is a practice, I will not rock the boat by reporting these this time. However, I am curious to see how many points I will loose for the incident I had

Thanks again for the effort you put in Fish, also thanks to all drivers who came to the race when they could easily have not bothered.

Quote from byrney2004 :

As far as the reports go: I think I experienced three seperate offences but as it is a practice, I will not rock the boat by reporting these this time. However, I am curious to see how many points I will loose for the incident I had

byrney can you write those reports via PM if you don't want to blame anyone. so i have a clue where to look at. i really want to make it this time like it will hapen in the real races. so everyone knows what he can expect.

don't be shy for making reports, it is common business.

the format should be something like this:
Lap 16, #12 crashed me in T3

About ventrillo, it can sometimes be useful for other racers to speak to each other, for instance me asking yankman if hes fuelled to the finish etc

On the racing side, i dont think theres any major things to change, apart from maybe if we are going to have single file restarts, can the leader control the pace, with overtaking allowed as soon as you cross the line, rather than relying on the confusing green flag bind.

I have a problem with that now anyway. Because I was not going to report the problems, I never saved the replay.

ok nevermind. i will have a look at it. as 25 laps are behind the pacecar anyway it is not that much work...

Single Qualifying
1st #38 38,95
2nd #8 38,99
3rd #22 39,01
4th #42 39,03
5th #14 39,04
6th #18 39,04
7th #9 39,10
8th #13 39,17
9th #58 39,31
10th #88 39,32
11th #79 39,34
12th #66 39,38
13th #55 39,39
14th #3 40,12
15th #666 40,23


Starting Position for Main Race
1st #22
2nd #42
3rd #38
4th #14
5th #9
6th #8
7th #88
8th #18
9th #13
10th #58
11th #55
12th #79
13th #007
14th #66
15th #455
16th #74



Race Report


Lap 2
#42 weaved and hit #18 hard on front which caused a mass crash (CAUTION)
---------------------------------------------------------------
CAUTION PHASE #1
Speeding under Caution
#007, #8, #14, #38, #42, #55, #58


Lap 4
#42 overtook #14 before pits when both entered pits under caution


Lap 5
#14 bumps #42 twice when exiting pits under caution


Lap 6
#42 brake to avoid a crash with #18 car, #14 was to close and crashed the #42
END OF CAUTION #1
---------------------------------------------------------------

Lap 8
#13 Lost control and flipped his car
#9 Lost control and flipped his car


Lap 10
#007 Lost control and crashed #18, #18 flipped others crashed (CAUTION)

---------------------------------------------------------------
CAUTION PHASE #2
Lap 12
#007 double filed before command came out and overtook other cars, it had no effect because he was the lucky dog


Lap 16
#13 and # 24 (in outer file) made a jump start, had no effect
#007 Jump start
END OF CAUTION #2
---------------------------------------------------------------

Lap 17
#22 Lost control and caused a mass crash (CAUTION)

---------------------------------------------------------------
CAUTION PHASE #3
Lap 18
#13 bumped #42 under caution because of flipped cars on track
#14 crashed #22 car in pit road


Lap 22
#13 stayed in wrong file and crashed himself out almost causing a crash with #38 which was on 2nd position
#88 gets stuck on apex
END OF CAUTION #3
---------------------------------------------------------------




As the rules have changed a bit i did not give out any penalty, but as you can see in the race report, there are some drivers who would have been disqualified.

here is the points standing for the race according to the rules without the penalties:

Pos-----Car-----Points
1st-----#38-----200
2nd-----#42-----180
3rd-----#22-----180
4th-----#14-----165
5th-----#66-----160
6th-----#88-----155
7th-----#8------151
8th-----#007----142
9th-----#55-----138
10th----#79-----134
11th----#74-----130
12th----#13-----127
13th----#9------5
13th----#18-----5
13th----#58-----0
13th----#455----0
13th----#74-----0
19th----#3------0
20th----#666----0

Bonus:
Poleposition: 10pts Bonus for #22
Qualifying Bonus: 5pts Bonus for #22, #42, #38, #14, #9, #8, #88, #18
Leading Bonus: 5Pts. Bonus for #38,#42,#22
Fastest Lap: 5Pts. Bonus for #38
Highest Climber: 5Pts. Bonus for #66

So im guessing i (#42) would have been disqualified then

not sure on that, i think the first crash was a minor accident (max. 5 points penalty) and the overtaking before pit-road was about the same issue. the first crash causing the pacecarphase may be analized more in detail, maybe it could be a normal racing accident..

This alternative idea really worries me - especially on the reverse where peoples skills on it will vary massively. Just to put another idea in your head, would it not be ok to have two drivers released at intervals. That way it could almost half the time quali will take from practice. Of course this does mean racers will have to concentrate a bit to keep out each others way, but I think that might work. Anyway, like I said just another idea.

PS. I have changed my skin and of course my name to FM. If the skin change is a problem (too late, too much work etc.) just let me know.

Thanks and cant wait - lots of practice put in