Quote from ORION :

We will use 100kg for the FZR, and 50kg for the XRR, in both race and quali.
People decided to chose the cars with those handicaps, so its the best thing we can do.

You HAVE to be kidding? There is a chance for it to be fair now but you aren't going to allow it? This is only because ZT are driving the FXR isn't it? I don't know why I am suprised really as the organisation has been a complete joke from the start.

Edit: Sign-up for this event started on the 22nd of March, the handicaps didn't come into place until the 14th April. So really, we should all use patch W0 and have no handicaps, right? That's how it was when we signed-up?

Quote from joshdifabio :

You HAVE to be kidding? There is a chance for it to be fair now but you aren't going to allow it? This is only because ZT are driving the FXR isn't it? I don't know why I am suprised really as the organisation has been a complete joke from the start.

Edit: Sign-up for this event started on the 22nd of March, the handicaps didn't come into place until the 14th April. So really, we should all use patch W0 and have no handicaps, right? That's how it was when we signed-up?

This is the only fair thing we can do, beacause everyone has chosen the cars with those settings.
YOU have chosen those settings.

Actually I should disqualify you for this silly statement, really professional Mr.


We are using the same settings we used for all events. Also, the teams have had the chance to change their car just before that quali started.

Quote from ORION :

This is the only fair thing we can do, beacause everyone has chosen the cars with those settings.
YOU have chosen those settings.

Actually I should disqualify you for this silly statement, really professional Mr.


We are using the same settings we used for all events. Also, the teams have had the chance to change their car just before that quali started.

Disqualify me for having an opinion? lol. Why if we have been given an opportunity for a fairer race, can't we use that? Just because the FZR teams were disadvantaged to start with, doesn't mean they have to be now. Lots of people have spent lots of time practicing, not just ZT. I don't think it's fair to deny those people a chance to race against the other cars.

Edit: Also, we had no idea before quali started what a pile of crap the FZR was with the 100kg handicap. We aren't a German team, and we aren't close to any other teams competing and therefore we had no idea of the pace of the other teams until qualifying! I'm sure this is the same for most FZR teams, and I think you should consider them as well as all the German teams which are competing.

The FZR teams have chosen themselves to drive this car, and they knew from the start that it is slower.

If we change any settings, the other teams with FXR and XRR will be moaning...

As said before, YOU have chosen the car - the admin team hasent done anything.

Quote from ORION :

The FZR teams have chosen themselves to drive this car, and they knew from the start that it is slower.

If we change any settings, the other teams with FXR and XRR will be moaning...

As said before, YOU have chosen the car - the admin team hasent done anything.

Yes, and we would accept having the slower car in the race if there was no other choice, but there is. How can the FXR and XRR teams possibly complain about the race being fair? We did NOT know before qualifying that the FZR was slower than the other cars, as I just said. Although I don't really see that it matters.

Quote from joshdifabio :

We did NOT know before qualifying that the FZR was slower than the other cars, as I just said. Although I don't really see that it matters.

But why did all the other teams know that? Because they tested the cars maybe? Why did you chose FZR and not XRR?

Further discussion is not needed, because there is only one fair AND consistent solution an admin team can do - let the racers decide. You DID decide.

Quote from ORION :

But why did all the other teams know that? Because they tested the cars maybe? Why did you chose FZR and not XRR?

Because it was faster when we tried it. Can you show me where these people are that are complaining or will complain about the handicaps? I'm pretty sure that everyone would accept the FZR teams having a fair stab at the race.

Just imagine we change the settings and an FZR wins.
We cant use differnt settings within one event, its just unfair.

Again:
YOU made the decision.


I can only do what Scawen does all the time: If you dont like this, just make your own 24h race... We are trying really hard to get a great event - the biggest racing event in LFS history, and Im getting pretty sad if people like you come here and call this "a complete joke from the start".

You can be 100% sure that ANY other admin would have banned you for this. Im always trying to make things perfect, and the other 3 admins do the same. If you still dont like it, I cant understand that.


Please dont blame the admins for YOUR decision.


Now I know how Scawen must feel... really frustrating.

That really isn't fair. If the community standard is 40 and 80 kg pentalties, i don't believe it fair for you to overrule that.

We dont overrule anything. Scawen overrules our setting and we dont use it because it would be unfair to change things after people decided which cars to use.

Yes, you are overruling the "fair" GTR class pentalties, as they exist as of now for LFS.

Scawen is LFS, and the community has given feedback that the current class balance needs to be 0/40/80 kg. We all agree qualifying was done under different circumstances, but you need to go with the current balance.

If Scawen determined that the 0/40/80kg is fair, it is unfair for you to decide otherwise.

Quote from ORION :

Imortant data for now:

• Patch W21 will be used in the whole quali (=all quali dates)
  
• About the balancing issue, I have no clue yet how the X patch will handle this, so we have to wait I guess. For the race, we will use the latest patch. If patch X isnt out in time, we cant use it of course

This seems to contradict what you are saying now, or at least it contradicts the principle of what you are saying.

Quote from ORION :

Just imagine we change the settings and an FZR wins.

If they won, then it would be fair. They would have won on a level playing field.

Quote from ORION :

Further discussion is not needed, because there is only one fair AND consistent solution an admin team can do - let the racers decide.

So how about we let the racers decide, and have a vote? Somehow, I'm rather certain that you won't allow this.

We chose our cars based on the knowledge that the would be as provided by LFS. We did not chose knowing that they would be "balanced" by means other than LFS.

As you said, Latest Test patch, at the moment, 0/40/80 kg. Don't go back from your rules...

let it be like it was in qualy, everything else would be a mess, everyone had the chance to decide untill qualy.

So use this specs or you would have to allow everyone to change again, new qualy....blabla

how about you let the orga decide.....and just quit the race if you cant agree with the rules?

same as some weeks ago... when the question about w or w17 was discussed..

we chose w17/any Test-Patch because of some advantages (player slots and so on) ...

after this, EVERYBODY had the chance to change his car because some performances had changed!..

we drove the quali and practised with 0/50/100..

if we drove with 0/40/80 now.. we would have to allow a carchange again, then we must do a new quali, new car-settings.. ...

OR, we just say that we drive with the old 0/50/100 and everything is ok..

YOU decided which car you want to drive with the 0/50/100 settings.. and now you have to live with your decision.. everybody has to! ... but you also have the right, that this settings will be used..


this is the main reason why we will drive with the old penalty settings

nice greetz from germany
da^reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemixx


ps: nobo, thx you are GREAT!! ZT loves you

Quote from Remix :

if we drove with 0/40/80 now.. we would have to allow a carchange again, then we must do a new quali, new car-settings.. ...

OR, we just say that we drive with the old 0/50/100 and everything is ok..

YOU decided which car you want to drive with the 0/50/100 settings.. and now you have to live with your decision.. everybody has to! ... but you also have the right, that this settings will be used..

You all are using some really backwards logic. Sorry, but that is the truth.

You said the latest test patch would be used. Latest test patch is 0/40/80 kg.

Its going to be a huge headache for you to ensure everyone is using the right ballast, and what if they don't? There is no easy way for everyone to know that no-one is cheating, so you have jeopardized the legitamicy of the event already.

Again, the reason the 0/50/100 was changed to be Fair to everyone. Therefore, NOT changing is Not Fair...

Please think about this.

+1 from me too. the weights should be as the rules suggest, latest patch is used!

Ok, well I see that all three of you (Nobo, PudelHH, Remix) are driving FXRs, so I can understand that you don't want the FZRs to be competitive with you. Especially since the XRR, in my opinion, is already the better car over a race distance, compared to the FXR.

We will accept the rules as they are, as although we feel that they are unfair, there is clearly nothing we can do about it. So, it is most likely that we will take part in the race, and with some luck compete for the GTR class win in the slower car.

ORION - I hope that we can put this behind us, maybe some of the things I said were taken a little personally, but I only stated my honest feelings and I can't change how I feel.

Quote from srdsprinter :

You all are using some really backwards logic. Sorry, but that is the truth.

You said the latest test patch would be used. Latest test patch is 0/40/80 kg.

Its going to be a huge headache for you to ensure everyone is using the right ballast, and what if they don't? There is no easy way for everyone to know that no-one is cheating, so you have jeopardized the legitamicy of the event already.

Again, the reason the 0/50/100 was changed to be Fair to everyone. Therefore, NOT changing is Not Fair...

Please think about this.

Quote from Clownpaint :

+1

Quote from BenjiMC :

+1 from me too. the weights should be as the rules suggest, latest patch is used!

I don't think that we will be able to change this now, but I am grateful for your support, especially the two of you from clownpaint whose team the new ballasts (0/40/80) would possibly disadvantage.

Respect.

+1

FZR is now slower AND uses more fuel? This makes it *completely* useless.

My team is XRR, so I don't really have a bias in the matter (and I'm driving the other car anyway, the XFR).

latest test patches has nothing to do with "global balancing" from master server....so if we would use w17 we had same weights...0/40/80...so dont argue with testpatches!!!!

the cars were choosed with 0/50/100....so be sportsmen and accept the rules to drive the race with that setting. nobody could imagine that devs are going to change the balancing one week before the race and giving avdvantages to xrr/fzr cars without giving the fxr cars a chance to change the car.

0/60/90 would be nice

Quote from PudelHH :

the cars were choosed with 0/50/100....so be sportsmen and accept the rules to drive the race with that setting. nobody could imagine that devs are going to change the balancing one week before the race and giving avdvantages to xrr/fzr cars without giving the fxr cars a chance to change the car.

I'm still not sure why you're so scared of the 0/40/80 thing, since it would at least make the cars more equal, NOT make the FZR faster. and given that the FZR still has a much higher rate of gas consumption you'd still be better off driving the XRR or FXR.

And as far as a chance to change the car... you either mean to change to use a different car or to change the setup of your existing car. In the former case... would you really switch to the FZR? C'mon. In the latter, you still have a week to tweak the setup. I don't really see the problem here.

Quote from PudelHH :

latest test patches has nothing to do with "global balancing" from master server....

Actually they do.

Go download a fresh install of LFS S2alpha Patch W. NO balancing weights.

Download a TEST patch. Global balancing.