RWD cars with decent power are supposed to eat rear tires and FWD are suppose to eat fronts fast. With 4WD, it depends on torque bias and and overall balance. With power shared among 4 wheels, how could it magically eat tires faster? Which tire is better off, one transmitting half of 240+hp or one transmitting a quarter of it? As power goes up, 4WD actually increases tire change intervals by overloading tires less under power.
4WD does NOT magically eat tires faster than other drivetrains. It's suppoesed to save tires and extend tire change intervals if well set up and driven to provide even wear. Unless of course yo resort to 4 wheel drifts.
my point is, the rb4 is fast if driven on the limit, which means braking late, accelerating early. the rb4 is always driven more aggresively than the fxo or the xrt. it should overheat and eat the tyres, as it does currently.
Actually the way the discussion went nicely shows that there isn't a specific direction. Before the change *everyone* said that the FZR and FXO are overpowered. Now there isn't such a general opinion. If that's the case then that is an indication of a good balancing.
The more people disagree and the more they throw mud at each other for different opinions the more even the balance must be.
I appreciate that there will be a 24h race, but does all the balancing have to be based on KY3R
Remember that what wins on one track might suck on another. If they are even at KY3R, they might be totally unbalanced at (say) South City. If flying laps on all tracks were added together all 3 cars should be roughly the same. But different cars have different advantages on different circuits.
It would probably need some coding, but one way for longer races to balance the cars is to change the fuel tank sizes. In ALMS, LMES and the 24 itself they do tweak fuel tank sizes for balancing different fuels. Just a thought ...
Agreed with the first part, however it would appear at least, that a major part of the GTR class balance testing has taken place in preperation for the 24hr race (~45 cars, 150+ drivers). You lost me with the fuel tank stuff, but thats a different story.
If I took a guess, it would seem that KY3R is a higher speed course, and that the weight pentalties would cause more trouble for the FZR at places like South City (accel and decel slower, as well as the increase tire wear). Of course, this remains to be seen. Once this event is run, people might have a better idea of how the balance works for KY3R, but I agree testing will need to be done at other types of tracks as well.
IIRC it was only against the diesels, bc they got so much better mileage. I don't see how that could really work for the GTR's as its all the same class, but an interesting consideration.
I wish there were an easy way to balance the GTRs without having to weigh down the FZR. Was there any testing done to see if maybe -25 to 50(?) hp could be equivelant to the 80kg pentalty?
A HP reduction would be a more effective long term solution to balance the class than the current weight. FZR's burn tires and fuel now at such a high rate, and the added weight has really made the car less lively. Reduced power could maintain the balance of the class, but help the FZR remain competitive in terms of handling and fuel/tire consumption.
True, aggressive driving is necessary to compensate for the unbeatable FXO syndrome somewhat. If well setup and driven, it should wear all 4 tires nice and evenly.
as an awd you have to accelerate very soon to be performant, so you actually push the car very hard into corners, and slide more than with the 2wd to be fast. Add to this the car is slightly heavier, with the actual physics you have to use lots of camber to be competitive, and the result is there : you kill the tires
That is exactly what i said in one of my first posts to this topic. you can't level them out on all tracks and even on one track with different race-length.
There should be obviously made balancing based also on the number of laps/lenght of the race.So lets say for example it will be different for 5 laps race and for longer lap/lenght races.
Not sure if this has already been posted, but imo the TBO balancing is still wrong - last night i was on SO Town in the TBO's, i was in an FXO chasing down an XRT - on the last turn he drifted wide and i got on the power neatly, pulling out a very good exit and gained on him - however because of the FXO's weight and power disadvantage he just pulled away effortlessly - surely the FXO would be slower with thinner tyres, but yet be able to keep up with an XRT (kinda) in a straight line
Very true, especially when trying to get WR. Compared to other TBO cars it is relatively underpowered, undertorqued and more importantly, VERY poorly suited powerband. Not to mention vastly undertired compared to the unbeatable FXO (Well, no other TBO car come close to it) . More weight than the FXO AND significantly LESS tire? No wonder it eats them fast. By the looks of things, it reminds me of the 1st thread I had here (RB4 related). I remember saying that the devs tried too hard and ended up overcompensating for FWD deficits, ending up with this unbeatable FXO problem.
If the RB4 was given the FXO's tires (a much more fair comparison) things would be a LOT different.
Well, at least you get to enjoy driving all 4 wheels off.
Has adding a windshield graphic of the current ballast been considered? This on the front/back could be an easy way for everybody to see what each car is running during the race.
In my opinion XRR should get only 30kg of ballast instead of 40kg because it's a little bit slower than both FZR and FXR with 40kg and this fine adjustment would surely move us nearer to a kind of "equilibrium" within GTR class.
i still don't see any use in balancing the 3 GTRs. if they are all the same speed, and this is what most of the people here talk about, then everyone will drive the FXR just because it is 4WD and the easiest to handle. why not just letting them be as they are now and the league admins can define how they want to restrict certain cars. the track selection and length of a league will tell what car should be restricted in what matter to make it equal. a general equalization will result in a "body-kit" swap thing between the XRR and FZR. so you just choose one of those two cars which looks better to you. but then the use of two different cars is gone. its only body-kits then. every car should have an advantage on certain tracks/race-length. what i would improve to these cars is tire wear. they all use MUCH too less tires imo.
Yes, just leave it like it was beforehand, so the FZR owns everything and the FXR sucks everywhere. :rolleyes:
Class balancing should, can and does not make the GTR class "equal". The purpose of it is to make sure the different cars actually have an advantage on different tracks, instead of the FZR being faster everywhere.
+1 to power restrictions (or power/weight combo) vs solely weight pentalties.
From what I've done (little), it seems maybe a small power reduction of FZR/XRR, combine with maybe 30kg FZR would make even racing, but wouldn't make the FZR so sluggish.
You,re telling me that adding just 40kg is greatly increasinc tyre scrub? Get real. If it's really causing a problem, increase tyre pressures a little. Nobody said you wouldn't have to alter your sets to coep with the changes.
Even if that were true, it was no fun before getting owned by FZR drivers. So it's not a step backwards.
