i dont want to show any disrespect to all those car lovers out there!! lol

does anyone think it would be a good idea to introduce motorbikes into the game?

just a thought as i was sitting here quite bored...

IIRC even Scawen is interested in adding motorbikes. Just don't expect it happening any time soon..

PS. Make a better thread title next time. Please.

Yes.

But only when someone (you? me? Logitech) spend the millions required to make a workable motorcycle controller.

Joypads, mice, steering wheels etc just don't work well enough for a simulation. We need body movment, countersteer, peg loads etc to be input via the human.

Whilst we might see bikes as a crappy arcadey 'look what the LFS engine can do', it will NEVER (imho) be at simulation standard without a controller that doesn't exist yet.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=11937
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=6318
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2082

Wouldn't work, realistic input impossible to simulate--for better or for worse.

p.s. there is a goodly lot of threads on this already.

i suppose you're right but it would still be fun if they introduced the bikes and you could use the keyboard or the mouse to steer.

It might not be as good as expected but at least they will have tested it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes.

But only when someone (you? me? Logitech) spend the millions required to make a workable motorcycle controller.

Joypads, mice, steering wheels etc just don't work well enough for a simulation. We need body movment, countersteer, peg loads etc to be input via the human.

Whilst we might see bikes as a crappy arcadey 'look what the LFS engine can do', it will NEVER (imho) be at simulation standard without a controller that doesn't exist yet.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But only when someone (you? me? Logitech) spend the millions required to make a workable motorcycle controller.

Or Thrustmaster http://archive.gamespy.com/har ... 02/pcspecial/index3.shtml
It's old and discontinued though. Lack of games support probably killed it.

maybe motorbikes are not the best way to go but what about the drag cars that you see in America (drag racing) where the parachute shoots out of the back at the end.

That would be good if they introduced those type of cars and a much longer dragstrip.

Quote from chrislennon16 :

That would be good if they introduced those type of cars and a much longer dragstrip.

The current drag strip is the standard length of 400m or 1/4 mile.

Quote from geeman1 :

The current drag strip is the standard length of 400m or 1/4 mile.

But do you not think that it would bee better if they kept that one and introduced another one that was say... a mile long?

Quote from chrislennon16 :

But do you not think that it would bee better if they kept that one and introduced another one that was say... a mile long?

Nope. It would be the same, but longer. Better just to have the normal length one..

Quote from geeman1 :

Or Thrustmaster http://archive.gamespy.com/har ... 02/pcspecial/index3.shtml
It's old and discontinued though. Lack of games support probably killed it.

How can that simulate counter steering? How can that simulate sider position? How can that simulate peg load? How can that simulate balance?

Answer: It can't. And without pretty much all those above the best you can hope for is very arcadey, just like all bike 'sims' so far. Fun perhaps, but not a simulator, and not in keeping with the rest of LFS imo.

Cars are easy to simulate the control of - you have wheels, pedals etc. The driver movement has little effect. Karts differ though, and is one reason why kart sims will never be simulators without big, expensive hardware (basically a kart on load cells)

Nah, bikes have no place in LFS........

LMAO

I wouldn't mind bikes being added, but it would be really hard to recreate the control. Handlebars and pedals would only cover some of it, because you'd also need an analogue weight shifting control, and that'd be hard to do.

GP500 managed it, so LFS could too.
It would be close enough to make it fun.. more fun than any other game, including big sellers like Tourist Trophy, which would definitely benefit LFS, and probably make enough of a market to tempt at least one big/small/new manufacturer to offer something better than what we have and get the ball rolling again.

I think it would be great to have bikes in LFS. Maybe it would encourage some home brew people to start developing something interesting. There's a lot of amazing home built gear out there.

Quote from felplacerad :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=11937
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=6318
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2082

Just in case you missed it, some people seem to have, or thinking of adding to this useless post.

And if you can't be arsed to click on them, they are 3 separate threads all about adding motorcycles.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes.

But only when someone (you? me? Logitech) spend the millions required to make a workable motorcycle controller.

Joypads, mice, steering wheels etc just don't work well enough for a simulation. We need body movment, countersteer, peg loads etc to be input via the human.

Whilst we might see bikes as a crappy arcadey 'look what the LFS engine can do', it will NEVER (imho) be at simulation standard without a controller that doesn't exist yet.

Using a wheel to control the bars might be awkward, but it could work, and I'd certainly take it over no bikes at all.

I just have to laugh at your suggestion that the weight a rider puts on the pegs has anything at all to due with the balance of the bike. That's more to do with the feedback to the rider than anything else.

Likewise, body position (longitudinal, lateral, and vertical) does have a slight effect on the center of gravity, but to suggest it's absolutely vital in controlling a motorcycle is lunacy. It was Mick Doohan in "Faster" who commented on the old riding style by saying: "Kenny Roberts era, that's when you really started to see the body play more of an active role in what the motorcycle's doing. Before that it was sitting on top of the motorcycle and bending it in and, you know, you dare not move on the thing."

I agree that the controller would be a problem, but I would still like to see them added. It would be great fun, and even with the controller limitations, you just know that it would be far more realistic than any other bike game ever.

Imagine a nice Tourist Trophy style on-bike camera, decent physics- a bike you can push too far. Hell, even with a PS2 style joy-pad that would be good fun online.

I'm sure bikes would be just fine with a G25. If you've never ridden a motorbike, how are you to know the difference anyway?

Of course, attach a 2X2 with some duct tape to the top of your G25, and away you go! :P

Quote from tristancliffe :

How can that simulate counter steering? How can that simulate sider position? How can that simulate peg load? How can that simulate balance?

Answer: It can't. And without pretty much all those above the best you can hope for is very arcadey, just like all bike 'sims' so far. Fun perhaps, but not a simulator, and not in keeping with the rest of LFS imo.

Cars are easy to simulate the control of - you have wheels, pedals etc. The driver movement has little effect. Karts differ though, and is one reason why kart sims will never be simulators without big, expensive hardware (basically a kart on load cells)

When was the last (more like first) time you've ever played a sports game on a computer or platform or at an arcade that was real enough for you to say "Yea.. I think its something like that in the real world"?

@Bob, not sure, I'm sure riding a bicycle would be pretty close to motorcycles.
And for those that have never ridden a bicycle well.. to bad, go learn!

Quote from tristancliffe :

How can that simulate counter steering? How can that simulate sider position? How can that simulate peg load? How can that simulate balance?

how could a handlebar not be suited for countersteering ?

It would work pretty well with the mouse I reckon- not too different from controlling a car with the mouse.

But there'd be a bit of a programming hurdle in regards to the rider coming off the bike. You don't want him stuck on his bike during a crash. Maybe some ragdoll effect- but that would probably take a while to code, all for the benefit of perhaps one vehicle...

I would rather see some weirder cars, like the DP1, or even some karts on smaller tracks, before bikes.

Quote from Shotglass :

how could a handlebar not be suited for countersteering ?

I suspect tristan's talking out of his ass, perhaps even doing a bit of trolling. I don't think he's ever ridden a motorbike before either, at least judging by his lack of a post in the "Your Bike" thread and his lack of enthusiasm for one in LFS.