Besides the greater sense of involvement that comes from controlling the engine revs during a shift, is there any advantage to turning off the 'throttle cut on upshift' and 'throttle blip on downshift' assists if I am using auto clutch? (I don't have a clutch).

Thanks. I'll keep experimenting with it to see which I prefer.

Without the auto throttle cut, you can lift on the throttle manually probably faster than the auto cut does. I have it turned off. The only car I flatshift (not lifting off throttle) is the FZR and/or the open wheelers. All other cars I lift when I shift. I have the throttle blip turned on, but usually blip it manually even more as I can get it reved to where I want it when I downshift. I see most doing it this way. I see alot of other's flatshifting also, which I don't like, but everyone else is doing it....

Same for me, i use a PSX dual-shock which is an analog gamepad
with 2 joysticks. I just CAN'T apply throttle while i brake anyways.
I did try to assign brakes to the left (y+ axis) while leaving throttle on
the right (y+ axis), but steering is on the left joystick (x axis) so it
means i have to compromise braking when i turn and vice-versa. Not good.
It WAS different and kinda fun for a while, until you need to brake and turn
at the same time...

Because of that, i leave auto-blip for downshifting (else the powered
wheels lock up on downshifts) but i deactivated the auto-cut. I manually
let go of throttle when i shift, like in realife. It feels more natural after a while
and yes, there IS a very small advantage if you keep throttle on
while shifting, although i can't 'flatshift' in any car without dmaging the engine,
i do apply throttle a bit early, which gives the same advantage. So far,
only guys with actual pedals (including clutch!!) and shifter seem to be
able to shift faster.

As i've mentionned on other posts, i kinda HAD to do it once i realised
i'd never win a drag against people who already do this. You can hear
the rpm raising between their shifts, sounds a bit like someone slipping the
clutch. On a road course it's a small advantage, but on the drag strip,
it can amount to 1-2 car lenghts at the 1/4 mile mark ! You just lost there.

Using these helps is really down to user preference (or in some cases there's no choice, as we've heard). My advice is to turn off throttle cut on upshift because

1. it's the easiest to do manually. I mean you lift up the throttle when you shift in your normal car, too, don't you?
   
2. for the turbo cars the throttle cut seriously hampers their accelleration. When you do it manually, you can either choose to floor it and gain some acc, for example in a qualifying hotlap or in the last lap of the race, or you can lift it very quickly taking care of the engine, but at the same time not losing too much turbo pressure. Throttle cut will always make you lose all the turbo pressure.

Throttle blip on downshift is IMO much harder to do manually (atleast until it becomes second nature, but without a clutch pedal it's kinda... pointless), and it doesn't gain you anything - besides some immersion maybe.

Also, when you're spectating someone, don't jump into conclusions and assume they flatshift. What you hear is very bound to lag, depending on what packet you last received. They may actually have lifted for the upshift, yet you only received a "upshift" and a "throttle 75%" packet (he was lifting off as he shifted), but because the next packet takes some time the clutch stays enaged with 75% throttle until the next packet arrives. And this results in the beloved needle-to-redline sound.

Very useful information. I always thought people were flat shifting during races...

I agree that lifting off during upshifts is more natural and I seem to get cleaner sounding shifts (dunno if it helps my pace).

I have always used auto throttle cut. Now I tested to do it manually and I think I'll keep doing it manually in the future.

How much over-REV really damages the engine?

Thanks to the revlimiters, almost not at all. Flatshifting doesn't damage the engine in any way currently, especially with the faster cars which also shift more quickly. Normally the clutch should get smoked, but as we don't have clutch damage (yet)

Quote from Fonnybone :

Same for me, i use a PSX dual-shock which is an analog gamepad
with 2 joysticks. I just CAN'T apply throttle while i brake anyways.
I did try to assign brakes to the left (y+ axis) while leaving throttle on
the right (y+ axis), but steering is on the left joystick (x axis) so it
means i have to compromise braking when i turn and vice-versa. Not good.
It WAS different and kinda fun for a while, until you need to brake and turn
at the same time...

I wonder if you could use joy2key.exe or something equivalent(sp?) to map the throttle ALSO to one of the trigger buttons. That way you could also blip the trigger throttle when you brake. I don't know, can you map in LFS a keystroke to the throttle also when you are assigning an axis as well? If so, then map the trigger button to that keystroke. I know other stuff you can assign both a button an a keystroke, for example the horn. Just not sure about an axis and a keystroke.

Quote from AndroidXP :

it's the easiest to do manually. I mean you lift up the throttle when you shift in your normal car, too, don't you?

but irl its a coordinated movement of both feet and one hand for most lfs players though its just one foot and the finger they use to press the shift paddle ... so unless you have a shifter and a clutch pedal it feels very unnatural (at least for me)
and since the way to shift is very similar to shifting a half automatic with automatic (fast) ignition cut flatshifting actually is the natural way to do it

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2515
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=1420

Older topics about flatshifting/throttle cut... so the conclusion is that flatshifting is a faster way and it doesn't do (any?) damage to the engine expect turbos? (Some people say that LX6 also gets some damage when flatshifting.)

And what's the most proper way to drive turbos (like XXR or FXR)? Because you loose turbo pressure when throttle cutting or lifting throttle manually but flatshifting damages the engine? I just don't get it.

I think I'm still a bit lost. If someone could tell this in a nutshell once again.

Nah, it doesn't really damage the engine. Although you probably shouldn't do it when participating an endurance race, but for the normal 10 lapper it shouldn't do that much harm. And even IF you start to hear some popping, the power loss is minimal for quite some time (it's only noticeable if you really trash your engine).

As I said, the damage model currently isn't sophisticated enough to give a disadvantage from flatshifting, so flatshifting is still the fastest way around, alteast for turbo cars. Personally I lift off anyways (although not completely) because I simply hate that ugly sound. You may want to consider lifting up in the LX cars though, as flatshifting greatly unsettles them and is often the cause for a spin.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Nah, it doesn't really damage the engine. Although you probably shouldn't do it when participating an endurance race, but for the normal 10 lapper it shouldn't do that much harm. And even IF you start to hear some popping, the power loss is minimal for quite some time (it's only noticeable if you really trash your engine).

Ok. I think this is now clear for me.

Quote :

Personally I lift off anyways (although not completely) because I simply hate that ugly sound. You may want to consider lifting up in the LX cars though, as flatshifting greatly unsettles them and is often the cause for a spin.

I've noticed. And it just feels better to lift off.

I do lift the throttle because I'm used to it... And it feels much better if you do... At a start, I may flatshift too (when in FXR), it's just a whole lot quicker... I sometimes manage to make 4 positions till T1...

really dumb question but i forgot where you find the options to turn those things off?

i had to reinstall and dont remeber how i did it

can anyone tell me?

Options -> Player or Game, if I remember correctly... Too lazy to open LfS now...

It's in Options --> Player