I agree
I agree
i totally agree doorman... alot of the time when im learning a track or something ill get the quick guys behind me.. see the blue flag so i move over, yet i still get a "BLUE FLAG MOVE NOOB" which just makes me eager to turn in on them, but i dont. not only that i think it looks unprofessional.
being relatively fast at some combos (call me arrogant whatever.. but hey i only mean SOME combos
), yes it does get annoying when slower drivers are infront of u, but they are there to have fun too. no point trying to do some big f*** off pass when they are trying to learn the race lines.
being a good race driver, means not only can u win races, but u must be able to get through ALL traffic succesfuly, inc. blue flag drivers.
and im pretty sure when u watch all the top level drivers ( like my favourite bagbag ) they do actually wait for substantial room to pass, they are smart enough to realize, hey, if i hit them, thats my race over too. not only that, u havent won cleanly if u hit someone off.. blue flag or not, its almost a form of cheating 
so yeah, thats my life story.. whats urs?
kbye.
being relatively fast at some combos (call me arrogant whatever.. but hey i only mean SOME combos
), yes it does get annoying when slower drivers are infront of u, but they are there to have fun too. no point trying to do some big f*** off pass when they are trying to learn the race lines. being a good race driver, means not only can u win races, but u must be able to get through ALL traffic succesfuly, inc. blue flag drivers.
and im pretty sure when u watch all the top level drivers ( like my favourite bagbag
) they do actually wait for substantial room to pass, they are smart enough to realize, hey, if i hit them, thats my race over too. not only that, u havent won cleanly if u hit someone off.. blue flag or not, its almost a form of cheating so yeah, thats my life story.. whats urs?
kbye.
^^ that's what i was talking about.
Generic response to this and many similar threads:
I have to say I'm getting scared sh1tless to enter most online games for fear of offending someone with my average driving. I've had LFS for some time and drive with reasonable care but without aids like wing mirrors and peripheral vision I usually end-up going cross-country rather than challenge someone. I'm not a noob by any means but I'm no master of the art either, I just play LFS to have fun and wind-down, but with the proliferation of servers, and threads similar to this - it's getting harder to find somewhere to go and have fun. "Leagues" strike me as too formal to support the average driver and I have no interest in screwing up other peoples gaming.
Answers on a postcard please....
I have to say I'm getting scared sh1tless to enter most online games for fear of offending someone with my average driving. I've had LFS for some time and drive with reasonable care but without aids like wing mirrors and peripheral vision I usually end-up going cross-country rather than challenge someone. I'm not a noob by any means but I'm no master of the art either, I just play LFS to have fun and wind-down, but with the proliferation of servers, and threads similar to this - it's getting harder to find somewhere to go and have fun. "Leagues" strike me as too formal to support the average driver and I have no interest in screwing up other peoples gaming.
Answers on a postcard please....
Ah! I wrongly assumed you'd read beyond the thread title.
Yeah, you quite often find that some fast guys will definitely be faster through the apex, but they haven't outbraked you and they haven't got any overlap at turn in, but they still feel they should be entitled to carry their usual speed through the corner and just barge into the back of you.
It's just bad racing, as if you can carry more apex speed you should be leaving a bit of space at turn in, carrying your usual apex speed and passing the guy cleanly on exit.
It's just bad racing, as if you can carry more apex speed you should be leaving a bit of space at turn in, carrying your usual apex speed and passing the guy cleanly on exit.
If there was a real chance of severe injury or death, we can all be assured of the fact that far fewer racers would be as reckless as they are today. Nothing like a bit of pain and suffering (plus a few months of cardboard hospital food, severe immobility, etc) to put some sense into some people.
The bots are the worst for being "ungentalmanly" They just ram into the back of you and don't take any regard to you being there. Those darn bots
There's no excuse for roaring away with a dismissive "soz" if you've just taken someone out.
Accidents happen, everyone makes mistakes now and then, and the nature of the game is such that quite often someone else might become involved. It's not always the overtaking driver's fault, though. Quite often I've been completely alongside (more so than I need to be to have the line, in fact) and had someone turn in on me whilst I am right up next to the inside kerb (even if I'd run a little wide, it becomes the overtaken driver's responsibility to take some action and avoid the contact), and yet they will complain that I took them out, and so I go the rest of the race feeling guilty for something that wasn't my fault at all whilst this driver tells everybody else on the server how I "wrecked" them.
Accidents happen, everyone makes mistakes now and then, and the nature of the game is such that quite often someone else might become involved. It's not always the overtaking driver's fault, though. Quite often I've been completely alongside (more so than I need to be to have the line, in fact) and had someone turn in on me whilst I am right up next to the inside kerb (even if I'd run a little wide, it becomes the overtaken driver's responsibility to take some action and avoid the contact), and yet they will complain that I took them out, and so I go the rest of the race feeling guilty for something that wasn't my fault at all whilst this driver tells everybody else on the server how I "wrecked" them.
No, you've steamed in and parked it in the middle of the corner. How can you know if its even possible for the other driver to avoid you?
Maybe you could have avoided the collision by letting off the brakes and sliding wide.
When I say parked at the apex I mean the passer is 30k+ slower.
If you respect the other driver they will respect you, I understand your frustration but remember that intimidation is a big part of racing.
Its possible to make the other driver give up the next corner long before you get to it.
The best drivers will pick the passing point that has the highest chance of success and the least chance of contact.
Its not always possible to do this but don't expect the other driver to back off and give you the line. They may be as commited to the bend as you are.
No he didn't say that, he said if he was more than fully along side then the overtaken driver needs to give way. You can pass people with steaming into a corner you know.
So we should all sit behind one another and try pressure someone into making a mistake!? This is a racing simulator, so why not race!!?
Sometimes you cant afford to wait another lap or for another corner. What if its the last lap?
If your on the outside and someone is on well up on your inside you should always give up the bend if two of you cant make it round the corner. In this case it's the overtaken drivers responsibility to make that decision, if it doesn't pay off then it's their fault.
At the end of the day it IS possible to pass on ANY part of a race track.
It has to be said that sinbad is one of the ones I have no fear of being passed by.
Do you think this thread has run it's course? Before the flaming torches are lit can someone put it out of it's misery?
Do you think this thread has run it's course? Before the flaming torches are lit can someone put it out of it's misery?
Hope you don't mind, doorman, but I checked out your stats on LFSW. I will use them a bit for my thoughts.
My problem with my skill level in racing LFS is getting around the average (or slower) traffic. I am not fast, but I don't feel my lap times are average either. I consider myself the fast of the average. In looking at doorman's PB listings, I see times that I see the majority of the racers doing in public servers. My times are not fast, but they are a bit faster than that.
What happens to me is setting up for the pass in the corners. The average (slower) guys will keep up fine on the straights. They brake fine and normally. But when it comes to the apex, I find the average hitting a much lower apex speed than I take. This is what throws me off from getting around them. See, I'm one who tries to take extreme care in not making contact. Thus, in my avoidance of contact, the average driver is pulling out of the apex faster because I'm slower than I normally am avoiding the back end of him. Then on the straights, I catch back up, but not enough to make a pass before the next corner, thus I'm running back up on his bumper again at the apex.
What is the point of what I'm saying? The point is, I know I am faster, but I refuse to wack them out of the way. I take the penalty of my own apex because the other car is there "in my way" (quotes because he has every right to be there, thus he is not really in my way). This is what racing LFS is all about. Sure the guy in front of me is slower, but I am battling him for track position and that is where the fun is. Trying to anticipate him ahead of me so I may take advantage of that slow apex of his instead of barging through him on my way to victory. We get nothing from a win in LFS. There are many more victories on the track than just winning over all. The many victories are when you finally get around that slow apexxing driver cleanly for the position. Then it's on to the next battle with the next position and another victory when you can get around him cleanly.
Sure, there has been plenty of times I've made contact to the back bumper of drivers such as described above. This of course is my mistake and not the blame of their "slowness". The result of such contact is usually them getting a bit out of shape with their car and me backing off rather than me barging through. A "sorry" is always said, and I try to wait until they are back under control of their car before resuming the battle.
The biggest problems I see with the faster drivers that this thread is about is not really barging through the slower drivers, but not leaving any room left while they are passing. They will make a perfectly fine pass attempt at corner entry, get to the apex, then drift completely out to the curb on corner exit without regard to anyone who may still be there. They seem to thing that "leave room at the apex when on outside" must be followed exactly, but "leave room at exit when on the inside" has nothing to do with racing.
Just letting car after car by because they are attempting to pass or they are faster isn't racing. That is trackday hotlapping. If you can declare yourself a winner because you finished first by barging through others, pushing them off, and expecting everyone to pull over for you because of your elite laptimes, then you are not the winner at all.
EDIT: And post 36 that appeared while I typed this is exactly what I mean by my last paragraph. Post 36 talks about the car being passed must give way. No, he does not have to give way, the passing driver must leave room for him on the exit, just as he left room at the apex for the passer. After all, this isn't a trackday simulator, it is a racing simulator!
My problem with my skill level in racing LFS is getting around the average (or slower) traffic. I am not fast, but I don't feel my lap times are average either. I consider myself the fast of the average. In looking at doorman's PB listings, I see times that I see the majority of the racers doing in public servers. My times are not fast, but they are a bit faster than that.
What happens to me is setting up for the pass in the corners. The average (slower) guys will keep up fine on the straights. They brake fine and normally. But when it comes to the apex, I find the average hitting a much lower apex speed than I take. This is what throws me off from getting around them. See, I'm one who tries to take extreme care in not making contact. Thus, in my avoidance of contact, the average driver is pulling out of the apex faster because I'm slower than I normally am avoiding the back end of him. Then on the straights, I catch back up, but not enough to make a pass before the next corner, thus I'm running back up on his bumper again at the apex.
What is the point of what I'm saying? The point is, I know I am faster, but I refuse to wack them out of the way. I take the penalty of my own apex because the other car is there "in my way" (quotes because he has every right to be there, thus he is not really in my way). This is what racing LFS is all about. Sure the guy in front of me is slower, but I am battling him for track position and that is where the fun is. Trying to anticipate him ahead of me so I may take advantage of that slow apex of his instead of barging through him on my way to victory. We get nothing from a win in LFS. There are many more victories on the track than just winning over all. The many victories are when you finally get around that slow apexxing driver cleanly for the position. Then it's on to the next battle with the next position and another victory when you can get around him cleanly.
Sure, there has been plenty of times I've made contact to the back bumper of drivers such as described above. This of course is my mistake and not the blame of their "slowness". The result of such contact is usually them getting a bit out of shape with their car and me backing off rather than me barging through. A "sorry" is always said, and I try to wait until they are back under control of their car before resuming the battle.
The biggest problems I see with the faster drivers that this thread is about is not really barging through the slower drivers, but not leaving any room left while they are passing. They will make a perfectly fine pass attempt at corner entry, get to the apex, then drift completely out to the curb on corner exit without regard to anyone who may still be there. They seem to thing that "leave room at the apex when on outside" must be followed exactly, but "leave room at exit when on the inside" has nothing to do with racing.
Just letting car after car by because they are attempting to pass or they are faster isn't racing. That is trackday hotlapping. If you can declare yourself a winner because you finished first by barging through others, pushing them off, and expecting everyone to pull over for you because of your elite laptimes, then you are not the winner at all.
EDIT: And post 36 that appeared while I typed this is exactly what I mean by my last paragraph. Post 36 talks about the car being passed must give way. No, he does not have to give way, the passing driver must leave room for him on the exit, just as he left room at the apex for the passer. After all, this isn't a trackday simulator, it is a racing simulator!
Hehe
that's what I was thinking 
smacks of boredom before patch X syndrom All the ones that I know that have posted in this thread are quite clean racers. For me I have very rare occassion were an equal or faster driver is at fault and even then when I review the replay 50% of the time it was my fault
Once you know your opponent it becomes easy to pass though, as you just adjust your strategy accordingly. In that example you would simply time your arrival at the corner so that the slower guy ahead doesn't slow you mid appex and then draft him up the straight overtaking him 200m before the next corner
that can be achieved by braking slightly earlier or staying out wide a moment more taking a late appex depending on the corner.Good thread I race at DMR because I know its a safe place with no messing accepted , not likley to be any swearing and a good mix or racers, I agree with the fact that dismissive sry's are not good enough, and I would expect anyone who is truly sorry to slow and let me repass after knocking me off .
I just realised I was at your server last night Doorman, I hope it wasn't me who binned you off I certianly dont remember it
SD.
I race at DMR because I know its a safe place with no messing accepted , not likley to be any swearing and a good mix or racers, I agree with the fact that dismissive sry's are not good enough, and I would expect anyone who is truly sorry to slow and let me repass after knocking me off .I just realised I was at your server last night Doorman, I hope it wasn't me who binned you off
I certianly dont remember it SD.
That's where the practice comes in. Don't follow so closely, brake earlier and gentler so you can run the next corner at your speed and have the car nicely balanced by the turn-in point. You'll be right on his arse by the kerb on the exit and blast past him up the next straight. He'll be a lot less likely to lose his cool and do something embarrassing if you pass him on a straight, too, so it's safer doing it that way.
+1
Wish more people would turn up at the DMR servers. Proper circuits with proper cars and proper gents driving them. Still my favourite server.
When I have to pass someone under the blue flag, I usually use the horn. I hope it doesn't sound too rude, I only use it to warn the driver in front of me that he is about to be lapped. I don't have that many buttons on my wheel so I have very few preprogrammed messages (a smiley and a "sorry !" button, yeah I also do mistakes sometimes
).I also use the horn very often when I'm side by side other drivers. I only use it as a safety mesure in case they didn't saw me.
Hmm. That does bother me a bit. Imagine if everybody did it. I only ever use the horn in reply to someone who beeps at me. Basically to say "Yes I know, retard, stop banging your stupid horn".
lol!
A friendly toot toot is fine, especially considering the massive blind spots we have in the SIM world, I toot toot alot too
. Leaning on the horn for more than a few seconds would sound rude LOL you haven't been to the Philipines have you
every car on the road is toot tooting! oh and 99% of the cars on the roads are full of dents, even the new ones Hmm ok ok maybe everyone tooting isn't good Kind words sir. No not you mate, you're a diamond.
Well thanks for the lesson there (pretty sure I never mentioned anything about "steaming up the inside and parking it" though), but the point is that you cannot just turn in whenever you normally would if there is a car alongside in the process of overtaking you, and then blame that car for the resulting collision.
It's like if a driver is attacking somebody around the outside, people would be aghast if that driver just turned in on the car that is legally defending its position. Switch the roles, attacker becomes defender and v.v, and it's no different. There's no magic "I can do anything I want because I'm defending my position and you're trying to pass me" rule.
I know it probably bother some peoples, but there is so many stupid things said in the chat in the public servers that I usually ignore them and don't use them much (and a lot of people probably do the same). Flashing my lights wouldn't help much when I'm side by side.
It's always a quick horn though, and I find this better than being thrown out of the track because someone didn't look right/left.
If you have a better idea...
My server and events all cater for driving of all standards (so long as you have reasonable control over the car) Even if someone is useless and keeps crashing that's fine so long as I can see that the intention to drive clean is there.
See http://www.gentlefoot.com/LFS/forum/index.php for information about leagues and ladders and you will see how it works.
Join GentlefootFormulaRacing and you will recieve help not abuse from the drivers on there.
True. But generally I know when I've got in the way and will blushingly deliver a 'Sorry, my fault', pull the wing/fender off my front wheel and soldier on.
@mrogers lol. I had cause to look at my stats the other day and the distance travelled shocked me to the core! I put my mediocrity down to age.
A plea to fast drivers
(70 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG