Here's that video:
http://video.google.com/videop ... 003314136576108&q=lfs
http://video.google.com/videop ... 003314136576108&q=lfs
That video is impressive! 
And to the guy that asked, nope I don't have a driving license yet, I'm applying for my provisional this month though. I've only ever driven a car at 50mph max, and that was on some runway with many potholes, so I just went with what was happening and took it for what it was. But after my Dad and Brother had a go, they said "No... A car would easily hold to the road at that speed"
Either way, like I have said many times before I find the game very enjoyable.
And to the guy that asked, nope I don't have a driving license yet, I'm applying for my provisional this month though. I've only ever driven a car at 50mph max, and that was on some runway with many potholes, so I just went with what was happening and took it for what it was. But after my Dad and Brother had a go, they said "No... A car would easily hold to the road at that speed"
Either way, like I have said many times before I find the game very enjoyable.
Well what is that speed? And is it a FWD?
Couse i drive a Ford Focus 1.6 100 BHP. Nothin special. Not for racing anyway. And i wnet to do few laps at speed form 20 miles to 50 mlčes per hour and done some turnin on staight and stuff. Now in real life you only dare to bend the wheel suddenly to one side to the other at around 30 deg angle imo at speed around 30 miles per hr ( i know i do). If you do same in LFS, car behaves very close to RL. But if you start to provoke it by turning the wheel lock to lock it does start to loose grip and the ass comes out. And i doubt you can go lock to lock in RL so easily as you can in LFS. There is loads of variables that determine all the facts. All i know is that LFS made me more secure when driving the real car, souse i expected what is about to happen if i do sudden moves. So as many said b4, i too agree the physics is not perfect, BUT it is the closes you can get to RL by a mile ahead of all the other so called sims.
Couse i drive a Ford Focus 1.6 100 BHP. Nothin special. Not for racing anyway. And i wnet to do few laps at speed form 20 miles to 50 mlčes per hour and done some turnin on staight and stuff. Now in real life you only dare to bend the wheel suddenly to one side to the other at around 30 deg angle imo at speed around 30 miles per hr ( i know i do). If you do same in LFS, car behaves very close to RL. But if you start to provoke it by turning the wheel lock to lock it does start to loose grip and the ass comes out. And i doubt you can go lock to lock in RL so easily as you can in LFS. There is loads of variables that determine all the facts. All i know is that LFS made me more secure when driving the real car, souse i expected what is about to happen if i do sudden moves. So as many said b4, i too agree the physics is not perfect, BUT it is the closes you can get to RL by a mile ahead of all the other so called sims.
I'd love to see a replay of them/you driving where it apparently has no grip. I suspect they just haven't compensated for the lack of feel. I bet they've NEVER turned a wheel more than 90° at 50mph in real life.
if anything lfs has too much long grip which should make it feel less like ice
Yeah, no kidding.
I can't express completely what a shock it is to actually drive a car on the track, in anger as it were. The braking forces, the lateral g's (even if less than 1) are brutal compared to anything you do on a real road (unless you are wrecking or just plain insane). When I say brutal, I mean brutal. I am not trying to use a word for shock value. And we are talking about my stock car here; not some race car.
You go a lot slower in a real car on a real track as compared to a sim because of these sensations. It takes a lot of time to get used to these things and to then start to feel what the car is doing underneath you. LFS forces you to feel these things using vision, force feedback and sound. All these things are present in the real car too, they are just masked by the noise, g loads, heat, and smells (yes, smells, brake dust, burning clutches, burning petrol, ah yes... heaven). Once you start feeling these more subtle things, it is very surprising how close LFS comes to matching.
One other thing to consider. LFS makes tires very slippery when they are cold, even the street tires. Make sure the tires are green inside and out before doing a comparison. Real street tires don't have a lot of grip change between cold and hot. Over heated street tires will get greasy, ask me how I know, but not too horribly bad.
Tire simulation is one problem, though it's nowhere as horrible as before patch U.
2 things remain that make LFS not as realistic as possible. On is aero, but that's a complex issue I'll not try to discuss here.
The other problem is suspension. Real cars have 3D suspension geometry instead of LFSs oversimplified 2D models. There's a complete lack of antidive/squat multilink suspensions that move in complex paths don't exist in LFS either.
IRL, just try 2 similar cars similar in every way accept one: rear suspension. A car like the Toyota Corolla runs cheap rear beam suspension that will skittle over bumps and actually skip the rear end and throw the car sideways when pushed hard on very twisty and bumpy conditions. Next try the Mazda 3, with multilink rear suspension that generates desirable bump steer. Good high speed stability and a very controllable but still usable rear end that copes well with mid corner bumps is what one could expect.
2 things remain that make LFS not as realistic as possible. On is aero, but that's a complex issue I'll not try to discuss here.
The other problem is suspension. Real cars have 3D suspension geometry instead of LFSs oversimplified 2D models. There's a complete lack of antidive/squat multilink suspensions that move in complex paths don't exist in LFS either.
IRL, just try 2 similar cars similar in every way accept one: rear suspension. A car like the Toyota Corolla runs cheap rear beam suspension that will skittle over bumps and actually skip the rear end and throw the car sideways when pushed hard on very twisty and bumpy conditions. Next try the Mazda 3, with multilink rear suspension that generates desirable bump steer. Good high speed stability and a very controllable but still usable rear end that copes well with mid corner bumps is what one could expect.
There are a LOT of things keeping LFS from being as realistic as possible. Off the top of my head: horrible clutch model, no stalling, no real engine damage, no radiator or intercooler damage, no stalling, incorrect longitudinal grip, automatic handbrake, far too adjustable suspension and transmission....need I go on?
That said, despite these problems, LFS is still the best sim on the market. And, I believe that Scawen will address most of these issues eventually.
I would also like to see more complex suspension (not to mention solid axle cars). But, I think that in the big picture, these things are fairly trivial, just like chassis flex. These things would have an effect on driving and racing, but they would be insignificant compared to things like clutch model, brake heat, and engine damage. There's only so much we can do with current processors and I'd much rather see those cycles being put to use elsewhere. But your point still stands.
almost (except 1) none of which are physics issues
name 1 trackworthy car with a solid axle
I never said they were physics issues. I was only responding to Jamexing's post saying that there were two things wrong with LFS.
How about three?
his post was about phyiscs issues remaining in lfs though yours however was mainly about fun gizmos which have very little to no impact on the cars handling
you seem to have fallen into the common trap of believing that despite not making any progress in suspension technology since the conestogas of the 1800s an american car doesnt look thoroughly out of place on any track
His post specifically said, and I quote, " 2 things remain that make LFS not as realistic as possible." If you want to be anal about my suggestions not being physics related, go right ahead. But everything I listed is a legitimate issue, not a "fun gizmo".
And you seem to have fallen into the trap of thinking that a solid rear axle automatically makes a car worthless around turns. I dare say that any of the cars in the picture I posted would be more fun on the track than most of the FWD "race cars" that dominate series today. They're certainly more fun to watch. I would also say that many of the most fun cars I've ever driven have been solid rear axle. In addition, the Ford FR500GT has a solid rear axle and it seems to do just fine on the race track, thankyouverymuch.
Lancia Fulvia
Peugeot 205
Both have solid rear axles, albeit not driven ones, one with leaf springs one with torsion bars. Both good fun on a track (as long as you keep the power below 150hp).
Peugeot 205
Both have solid rear axles, albeit not driven ones, one with leaf springs one with torsion bars. Both good fun on a track (as long as you keep the power below 150hp).
wasnt that the one on top gear which didnt have 500 hp and was only slightly faster than a golf ?
at least the peugeot appears to have standard trailing arms
Let's not forget about the Panoz Esperante either. It has a live rear axel and gee, it won its class at Le Mans last year.
Having said that, I still would like to see US car manufacturers produce something other than the Corvette that could tickle my fancy a bit more. The old Cadillacs are coming along, but they are still too big and heavy.
I do agree that the front wheel drive race cars commonly seen on the track in touring car races don't do it for me either. They are fine cars, I am sure, but I just like rwd cars better.
Having said that, I still would like to see US car manufacturers produce something other than the Corvette that could tickle my fancy a bit more. The old Cadillacs are coming along, but they are still too big and heavy.
I do agree that the front wheel drive race cars commonly seen on the track in touring car races don't do it for me either. They are fine cars, I am sure, but I just like rwd cars better.
The 2 points on physics modelling are mainly focused on things DIRECTLY relevant to the handling and performance of a car.
Reliability. Though properly model that all chassis and engine parts that could modified need to be accounted for. Even if we disregard the processing power needed and assume that we all run supercomputers, it'll necessitate freeing up many parameters to the player's manipulation. For instance, the engine must be tunable to allow compromises between outright performance and reliability along with almost all else. Yet so many simply dismiss any suggestion of making engines tunable. What a contradictory load of crap. Or are we just going to do something silly like artificially stating that a car that's revved till redline on every upshift will blow up earlier than the one that's driven at just half its useful revs over a race? Or even more silly stuff like applying randomness and cars blow up at the luck of the draw? IRL, cars fail both due to driver and also often due to engineering/technical error. If only people here have the slightest idea how hard it is to model these things.
And 3D suspension geometry not so important? Whoever says this must have been hiding under a rock for a pretty long time. Ever wonder why BMWs handle so well? Toe in on compression and vice versa from the rear multilink suspension has great influence on a cars ability to turn in and corner well whilst still allowing good powerdown on exit. If the multilink suspension I've just described is applied to the FZ50, you'll all be amazed by the difference it makes to overall balance.
Body flex not important? Oh dear. Last time I checked, any competent and skilled driver could easily spot the difference in handling between a seam welded and non seam welded car. The difference is even greater if additional chassis bracing and a roll cage is installed. Of course, LFS cars behave as if they have infinite stiffness, so when(if) chassis flex does get modeled, the difference between road cars and roll cage braced and seam welded race cars becomes very significant, especially in terms of handling precision.
Since LFS has attempted to simulate downforce cars as downforce dominant as an F1 car, aerodynamic modeling is of supreme importance. Yet we have silly things like 3 VERY different GTS with absolutely identical aero and an F1 car that has absolutely no pitch sensitivity. All these things are DIRECTLY relevant to racing and do more to improve realism and actual driving experience than anything else could.
And don't even get me started on turbo modeling, one of the most blaringly obvious yet neglected phyisics issues that received no improvement to this day.
Thank goodness that clutch LSD preload has finally been implemented properly. One blaring obvious physics problem that's finally addressed after a long time.
My point is, if the most important physics modeling remain as incomplete as it is, many things can really wait unless it's relatively simple and directly relates the potential performance cars or is directly relevant to improving the racing experience..
Reliability. Though properly model that all chassis and engine parts that could modified need to be accounted for. Even if we disregard the processing power needed and assume that we all run supercomputers, it'll necessitate freeing up many parameters to the player's manipulation. For instance, the engine must be tunable to allow compromises between outright performance and reliability along with almost all else. Yet so many simply dismiss any suggestion of making engines tunable. What a contradictory load of crap. Or are we just going to do something silly like artificially stating that a car that's revved till redline on every upshift will blow up earlier than the one that's driven at just half its useful revs over a race? Or even more silly stuff like applying randomness and cars blow up at the luck of the draw? IRL, cars fail both due to driver and also often due to engineering/technical error. If only people here have the slightest idea how hard it is to model these things.
And 3D suspension geometry not so important? Whoever says this must have been hiding under a rock for a pretty long time. Ever wonder why BMWs handle so well? Toe in on compression and vice versa from the rear multilink suspension has great influence on a cars ability to turn in and corner well whilst still allowing good powerdown on exit. If the multilink suspension I've just described is applied to the FZ50, you'll all be amazed by the difference it makes to overall balance.
Body flex not important? Oh dear. Last time I checked, any competent and skilled driver could easily spot the difference in handling between a seam welded and non seam welded car. The difference is even greater if additional chassis bracing and a roll cage is installed. Of course, LFS cars behave as if they have infinite stiffness, so when(if) chassis flex does get modeled, the difference between road cars and roll cage braced and seam welded race cars becomes very significant, especially in terms of handling precision.
Since LFS has attempted to simulate downforce cars as downforce dominant as an F1 car, aerodynamic modeling is of supreme importance. Yet we have silly things like 3 VERY different GTS with absolutely identical aero and an F1 car that has absolutely no pitch sensitivity. All these things are DIRECTLY relevant to racing and do more to improve realism and actual driving experience than anything else could.
And don't even get me started on turbo modeling, one of the most blaringly obvious yet neglected phyisics issues that received no improvement to this day.
Thank goodness that clutch LSD preload has finally been implemented properly. One blaring obvious physics problem that's finally addressed after a long time.
My point is, if the most important physics modeling remain as incomplete as it is, many things can really wait unless it's relatively simple and directly relates the potential performance cars or is directly relevant to improving the racing experience..
No. Google is your friend.
Of course modeling every little parameter in the engine is going to be a huge (and impossible) job. But, when someone can downshift from 5th to 2nd and the engine keeps on ticking, that's an obvious shortcoming. Similarly, when you can crush in the entire front of the car and the engine takes no damage, that's a pretty obvious flaw. You don't have to model every little detail to get somewhat close to real world behavior. Even something to the effect of [if bumper is pushed back more than 10mm, engine is damaged] is better than nothing at all.
It's not unimportant. But I personally feel that it's less important than having a clutch that actually works or punishing people for plowing into the back of my car at turn one. The suspension in LFS now isn't perfect. As you pointed out, it's basically a 2D model. But, even imperfect as it is, it's quite drivable and gives a realistic sensation of driving. Sure, it could be better, but, for now, it's far and away better than anything else on the market. The same cannot be said about the damage model, the longitudinal grip, etc.
Again, body flex is important, but not as important as most of the other things that are so very far off. Let's not forget that body flex is important mostly because auto makers are always trying to make their cars stiffer. In LFS we have the perfect platform of a 100% stiff chassis. So, I would say that chassis flex is only really important in two situations: 1) karts. 2) comparing a flexible chassis to a strong one. The first isn't modeled in LFS (and isn't done well in any game that I know of). The second is unimportant as nobody in their right mind is going to choose a noodly chassis when given the option of a stiff one.
I agree with you 100%. I just happen to think that a proper clutch model and proper engine damage are the two things that would most improve the racing experience.
Well if you want me to be really anal, that's not quite true. The aero dynamic devices themselves are shared between the three cars but their placement on the cars varies which alters the forces being applied to the wheels. This, coupled with varying mass distributions, gives the need for very different wing angles between the cars (needed to maintain a neutral aero balance).
hi again,
2 more things: first check if you are in km/h or miles... since you said that your car was sliding at 50... maybe u were in miles. second press f8 I think... or f11 lol dont remember now to check temperature of tires... and the first 3 or 4 turns the car will slide much more since they are real cold.
second: how many degrees are you driving??? your father is used to something like 1080, so put at least 720 on your wheel properties... because if you use 200 the tendency for real life drivers not used to computer wheels its to turn the wheel a lot... so they create understeer and the car looses grip.
oh... and on properties and on lfs turn off combine pedals for a more realistic experience.
2 more things: first check if you are in km/h or miles... since you said that your car was sliding at 50... maybe u were in miles. second press f8 I think... or f11 lol dont remember now to check temperature of tires... and the first 3 or 4 turns the car will slide much more since they are real cold.
second: how many degrees are you driving??? your father is used to something like 1080, so put at least 720 on your wheel properties... because if you use 200 the tendency for real life drivers not used to computer wheels its to turn the wheel a lot... so they create understeer and the car looses grip.
oh... and on properties and on lfs turn off combine pedals for a more realistic experience.
I have bougth two racing games, the last month. One was Rfactor and the other was RACE the WTCC game. I allready own GTR2 and Toca Racedriver 3.
I feel "at home" when i drive Lfs - None of the other games (I will not call any of them simulators), gives me the slightest feeling of beeing in a real car. I have often told why i "fell" for the Lfs simulator. I have tried all the other "games/simulators" and none of them caugth my attention
Then I found the Lfs demo, and was instantly caugth by the physics of the car. What the heck was this. Not a game, this was really hard and drove like the real cars I have owned. (Ok - Only the smaller cars)
I had never dreamt of me, "playing" a cargame (read simulator, when we speak of Lfs) on my computer. This year i hit 50 years on this planet, and I`m sitting by my Pc, driving Lfs, far to much. I will hit 100.000 miles soon and I am not getting the least tired of this simulator
Many call us Lfs fanboys (I must be a fan man ) but I don`t care.
A large percentage of the danish Lfs community, says that Lfs is not developing fast enough. MAN ! Lfs is the best, and if we look close on what we got now, and think of the status = S2 Alpha ! Then we can expect many, many goodies in the years to come
Lfs is = You go east, you go west - But stay at home, that`s best !
/Alland44 the fan"boy"
I feel "at home" when i drive Lfs - None of the other games (I will not call any of them simulators), gives me the slightest feeling of beeing in a real car. I have often told why i "fell" for the Lfs simulator. I have tried all the other "games/simulators" and none of them caugth my attention
Then I found the Lfs demo, and was instantly caugth by the physics of the car. What the heck was this. Not a game, this was really hard and drove like the real cars I have owned. (Ok - Only the smaller cars)
I had never dreamt of me, "playing" a cargame (read simulator, when we speak of Lfs) on my computer. This year i hit 50 years on this planet, and I`m sitting by my Pc, driving Lfs, far to much. I will hit 100.000 miles soon and I am not getting the least tired of this simulator
Many call us Lfs fanboys (I must be a fan man
) but I don`t care.A large percentage of the danish Lfs community, says that Lfs is not developing fast enough. MAN ! Lfs is the best, and if we look close on what we got now, and think of the status = S2 Alpha ! Then we can expect many, many goodies in the years to come
Lfs is = You go east, you go west - But stay at home, that`s best !
/Alland44 the fan"boy"
Where can i get that? Id like to try it just for fun
The answer to your question lies on post #72.
Do these setups work on the demo version? I'm sick of idiots barging me off the track online on the demo version, need something to keep me occupied on single player.
Yup, they work in demo, S1 and S2
Is This Game Really That Realistic?
(143 posts, started )
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