comparing to real life the 2 things easier to notice are (first) the possibility to full throttle too soon after an apex (well actually as soon as you start turning most cars in lfs accept full throttle without loss of grip)


and (second) rwd considering the way to do turns the fastest way possible

just go see some wr replays and u can confirm that most of the wr records with rwd for example the xrt make the turns like: start to turn to the apex and then do all the turn just counter-steering... while the best laps in real life are turning gradually to the apex, then straigning the wheel with some counter-steering... resuming the best rwd laps are being made like drifting.

I love drifting... but its not the fastest way to make a lap IRL, also... IRL its easy to start powersliding... but u need be a bit harsh to drift... while here even being gentle some cars start to drift too easily... for example rac in a straight cut the throttle and even the smallest turns make the car slide... that would be too dangerous to drive in a highway IRL.


correct both of these imperfections, give a g-force seat to all s2 license players and lfs becames a true sim

lfs devs rock I must say

maybe if the rwd cars would have a bit more downforce they would behave more like real life... the light weight rwd car of 200 bhp without spoiler that I drive doesnt drift that easilly, you have do a small scandinevian and give some power to start it... (or full throttle out of a turn to powerslide) but I can go on a highway 230 km/h let go the throtle change 2 lanes still the car doesnt drift as the rac or even other cars on lfs do... but maybe with a better setup and a bit downforce they start to behave more realistic... like they are now they feel like real but badly constructed cars lol

btw Im using wr setups... but I tried others and the loose feeling of the rear wheels still persisted... but please dont change the drifting itself because while drifting the car feels very real...

resuming... drift is ok... but to easy to start doing it. maybe the road is a bit wet

fwd and 4wd are almost perfect... so its not the road

still both of my cars have better grip then almost all cars in lfs except gtr and formulas ... well one I must go change tires soon... made fwd oversteer twice now... but the road was slipery

Im loving the s2 license

GG all

What?

Quote from raizde2 :

for example rac in a straight cut the throttle and even the smallest turns make the car slide... that would be too dangerous to drive in a highway IRL.

The RAC has no rear anti-roll bar, thats why it is all over the place, yes it is a poor design, no the devs will not change it because thats how the real car is.

As for the cars in LFS not having enough grip. Last time I took around a sharp turn at 40 mph scared the sh*t out of me, not to mention did my tires squeal.

Only tires I highly disagree with are the slicks, for example: get into the XFR, turn the wheel fully left or right, and you get understeer while moving under 5 mph. That is all wrong.

yeah, i guess we will have to see what scawen eric and victor have instore for us with patch Y.

Quote from XCNuse :

As for the cars in LFS not having enough grip. Last time I took around a sharp turn at 40 mph scared the sh*t out of me, not to mention did my tires squeal.

I was riding with my friend, and he went around a sharp turn at 40mph, in a GMC Safari! It scared the hell out of me. First, the van almost rolled over. Second, the tires were sqealing like crazy.

I have a GMC Jimmy so I think I went through the exact same thing.

that's the problem right there /\! It's that you're driving a van!

For example, I drove a TurboII Mazda RX-7 into(and out of) a series of s-turns, at 80mph, wide open throttle. There was no squealing, no roll, no nothing, only... GRIP...massive grip! .... now THIS is a car.

Quote from Mako. :

For example, I drove a TurboII Mazda RX-7 into(and out of) a series of s-turns, at 80mph, wide open throttle. There was no squealing, no roll, no nothing, only... GRIP...massive grip! .... now THIS is a car.

Key word: s-turns. I'm talking about a sharp hairpin, which my friend hit the brakes while taking.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

I was riding with my friend, and he went around a sharp turn at 40mph, in a GMC Safari! It scared the hell out of me. First, the van almost rolled over. Second, the tires were sqealing like crazy.

Either:

1. Your friend knows his car and the road so well that it was pretty normal to him.

2. He's got balls of carbon nanotube reinforced titanium alloy.

3. He's pretty crazy.

Maybe a combination of the 3?

Quote from XCNuse :

Only tires I highly disagree with are the slicks, for example: get into the XFR, turn the wheel fully left or right, and you get understeer while moving under 5 mph. That is all wrong.

Now try the same without a friggin' locked diff. No understeer whatsoever
I don't want to say LFS is perfect by any means, just that the locked diff causes a lot of low speed weirdness...

Quote from Jamexing :

Either:

1. Your friend knows his car and the road so well that it was pretty normal to him.

2. He's got balls of carbon nanotube reinforced titanium alloy.

3. He's pretty crazy.

Maybe a combination of the 3?

I'm gonna go with 3, 100%.

Quote from Mako. :

that's the problem right there /\! It's that you're driving a van!

For example, I drove a TurboII Mazda RX-7 into(and out of) a series of s-turns, at 80mph, wide open throttle. There was no squealing, no roll, no nothing, only... GRIP...massive grip! .... now THIS is a car.

In my younger irresponsible self I would do 90+mph on English country roads in a Vauxhall Cavalier, doing 80mph 'wide open' in some Japanese washing machine just aint hardcore

The car : http://www.steve.dwest.dsl.pipex.com/sri16osf.jpg
The road : http://www.frontiernet.net/~jnc1/eng2HR_90.jpg


OT : I think the behaviour of cars in LFS compared to the real life situations and cars in the real world is pretty bloody accurate, 90% of the cars on the road are built for 'comfort' and 'safety' - Which basically means crap handling and boring ride. Most road cars roll like a boat around sharpish bends, and they do this at a slow speed which gives you the impression you're doing fast but in reality you're probably only doing 30-40mph. I guess the reason you think the RWD cars handle so poorly in LFS is because you're not actually aware of the speeds you're doing and if you have a nice car setup, well it makes all the difference!

Quote from wheel4hummer :

I was riding with my friend, and he went around a sharp turn at 40mph, in a GMC Safari! It scared the hell out of me. First, the van almost rolled over. Second, the tires were sqealing like crazy.

Quote from XCNuse :

I have a GMC Jimmy so I think I went through the exact same thing.

Both of you guy's comments have one thing in common, General Motors vehicles. GM vehicles are by far, the worst vehicles I have ever driven. The power steering and power brake boosting in every GM car/truck/van that I have driven was so over boosted, that I could not even drive them. My last 4 vehicles previous to what I have now have been Toyota 4x4 trucks and 4Runners (2 each). I felt more comfortable driving at higher speeds on twisty roads in all 4 of them than I do my Nissan Altima. The last time I drove a GM vehicle was when I test drove a Chevy minivan, new off the lot in 2005. I thought surely they've figured out how to design a vehicle that drives ok by then. Nope. I couldn't feel a thing in the steering. I needed to brake to make a turn onto a side road and had no feeling in the brake pedal. I kept pushing and pushing thinking "stop you piece of garbage!"

The only reason I test drove one is because I get an OEM parts supplier discount which would have been in the neighborhood of about $10-12,000 off the price (would be well under the dealer cost by a few $1000). Needless to say, the drivability of a GM vehicle wasn't even worth paying $13,000 for a brand new $25,000 fully loaded minivan for the wife and kids. The next vehicle I test drove was a Honda minivan. Compared to any GM car, that thing felt like a sports car. But I ended up waiting until the kids were older and scrapped the minivan idea for a small AWD carbased SUV. It isn't a fantastic handling vehicle with it's short wheelbase and a bit high center of gravity, but it can be driven. You don't feel like you are going to steer off the road at every corner or crash because it won't brake at every stop.

What I'm trying to say though is that in LFS you're moving way faster than you realize. 40 mph in LFS feels like 20 mph in life, and that is probably the problem that raizde is having.

Quote from mrodgers :

You don't feel like you are going to steer off the road at every corner or crash because it won't brake at every stop.

Funny you should say that. The brakes on his Safari are very nice! We were going 15mph, and someone was sitting in the 3rd row (they removed the 2nd row so they could have more leg room) and they were'nt buckled. He slammed on the brakes, which decelerated us fast enough that the kid flew all the way into the dashboard! And, my dad's saturn has never broken down EVER, and it's 10 years old. Hell, we haven't even changed the head gaskets ever! Although, the alternator has been acting up lately. Driving one GM vehicle (especially a new one) does not say anything about the car company. GM makes crappy cars now. They were better in the 90's.

No, when I started driving at 16, my mother bought an 88 Chevy Cavalier (I got her hand-me-down car). That car was a complete piece of garbage. I was dating a girl for quite some time. She had an 89 Pontiac Sunbird. I drove it all the time (basically a Cavalier). Her mother had an 89 Pontiac Grand Prix. Yes, it was quite a quick car at the time. Nice 3.8L V6. But again, overall both of those were garbage. When I met my wife, she was driving a 92 Chevy Corsica. Yet another piece of garbage. As soon as we were married, I tossed that crap for the Nissan Altima. That was in 1998. Now in 2007, I just bought her a new ride and inherited that Altima with 150,000 miles on it for a work runner. It runs fantastic (though it needs a few things fixed that has rusted). My previous vehicle that I ran for 10 years? A 1988 Toyota 4Runner with the 22RE motor in it. How many oil changes did I do in 10 years before selling it with 190,000 miles on it? NONE! I never changed the oil and it also never had antifreeze/coolant in it.

So, yes I have a LOT of experience with low milage GM vehicles, which were all garbage. I also have a LOT of experience with very high milage Toyota vehicles which were nearly bullet proof. But my comments were not about reliability, but drivability. GM's design of they're steering systems and braking systems are terrible. It's all in the road feel, or lack of it. Of course, wheel4hummer, I know you are just starting out with your driving, so you don't have much experience. Once you start driving many different types and manufactures of cars, you will realize what the are like.

GM vehicles, from a driving enthusiast's perspective, are complete garbage. I don't mean that the cars won't brake from the comment you quoted from me, but the fact that you can not FEEL how the car is braking, thus you have no idea how or when it is going to stop. GM's may be fine for the normal "drivers" who do nothing but just press the "gas" to go and brake to stop and turn the wheel when they want to turn, but if you enjoy actually driving a car, you get no feedback from them at all.

Quote from mrodgers :

Once you start driving many different types and manufactures of cars, you will realize what the are like.

I have driven other cars. My Mom's 2004 honda accord. I don't like it. I'm sorry you end up driving the crappy GM cars. The 88 Cavalier, 89 Sunbird, 89 Grand Prix and 92 Corsica are complete pieces of garbage in my opinion too. The 6th and 7th gen Grand Prixes are great cars. Sunbirds and Cavaliers suck no mater what year they are from. I have ridden in a 6th gen Grand Prix, it's a nice car!

BTW: I know what you mean about not having a feel for braking, this happens in my Dad's '96 Saturn SL2. I do think "stop you piece of shit" driving it. However, my sister has a '99 SC1, and the brakes feel perfect.

Riding in a car will not tell you how much feedback you get from it, W4H. I am in full agreement with Mike on this one. GM sucks.

That being said, for a first car I'll probably buy a low-mileage Cavalier since it will be cheap, reliable enough, and cheap to repair compared to a german or japanese import. That is, of course, unless I inherit some money. In that case, it'll be a Subaru WRX STi most likely. Or, if I happen to come into 50 grand, It'll be a Superformance Coupe Ah... dreams...

Quote from mrodgers :

My previous vehicle that I ran for 10 years? A 1988 Toyota 4Runner with the 22RE motor in it. How many oil changes did I do in 10 years before selling it with 190,000 miles on it? NONE! I never changed the oil and it also never had antifreeze/coolant in it.

Funny, when I was in the USA my daily driver was an '87 4Runner and it was a horrible thing to drive. It used to break down all the time, too! I knew every cop in my town because they always stopped for a chat when they saw me pushing it to the garage.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Funny, when I was in the USA my daily driver was an '87 4Runner and it was a horrible thing to drive. It used to break down all the time, too! I knew every cop in my town because they always stopped for a chat when they saw me pushing it to the garage.

Ha! Must have had one of those GM Vortex 4.3 L V6 swaps, eh? LOL

Quote from wheel4hummer :

He slammed on the brakes, which decelerated us fast enough that the kid flew all the way into the dashboard!

Someone should have told his fool ass to belt the kid in so such a thing would have been prevented.

Quote from MAGGOT :

I'll probably buy a low-mileage Cavalier since it will be cheap, reliable enough, and cheap to repair compared to a german or japanese import.

How do you figure? In my experience late 90s-early 2000s Japanese cars like Honda and Toyota are built solid as hell and parts are as cheap as they come. I can't imagine parts for a Cavalier would be much cheaper than a late 90s Civic, of which there seem to be droves on the road these days.

This thread is now thoroughly off-topic.

Quote from mrodgers :

Ha! Must have had one of those GM Vortex 4.3 L V6 swaps, eh? LOL

I remember it had the turbo mounted right on top of the engine, and that whole thing had to be removed every time they worked on it which made our garage bills bigger, that's all I remember about it. And I had to top it up with about a quart of oil a week. And the electric windows would work sometimes and not work others (usually when it started to rain).

The other thing I remember is getting considerably better acceleration - and mileage - out of my other car, a 1962 Volvo 122S station wagon that I think was chiselled out of one large lump of iron by our prehistoric ancestors. I used to drive that in the winter because the heating worked, unlike that ****ing Toyota!

Quote from MAGGOT :

Riding in a car will not tell you how much feedback you get from it, W4H.

Of course not. That's why I only commented on feedback of the cars I have driven. Learn to read.

Perhaps I need to reiterate:

Quote from wheel4hummer :

BTW: I know what you mean about not having a feel for braking, this happens in my Dad's '96 Saturn SL2. I do think "stop you piece of shit" driving it. However, my sister has a '99 SC1, and the brakes feel perfect.

you're getting offtopic, I would prefer comments about possible motives for the problems on rwd, like clutch, diff, suspension, tires, whatever since mechanics aren't my thing... I tell the mechanic what I feel, he changes it

I read you guys driving on national roads at 90 mph... stuff like that... and about doing a sharp turns at 80... or that I think Im going faster than I think...

first I know how to check the speed on lfs... just look at the speedometer :P

so I look at it... Im going at only 100 mph or 160 kmh on a straight and take the foot of the throttle turn a bit and car starts drifting... even if I do it slowly...

I do it in real life much faster and dont have any problems... so no... Im not going faster than I think.

im used to drive at much more than 120 mph/200kmh so I know what Im talking about. never drifted a car unless on purpose... while in lfs is to dam easy to start one.

go pick a m3 without wet road and you'll see that starting a drift is not as easy as you think without making some hard wheel turns.

maybe lfs rwd cars are intended to simulate really bad cars or maybe the setups Im using are real bad (Im dont know much about setups, sorry I only drive ) going to try some other setups, maybe this ones are really oversteery

I feel that when Im not pressing the gas pedal, the car behaves like in neutral or clutch pedal pressed IRL... which is not the same except if you are on low rpms

I still say go check wr times and see how the turns are being made, or go pick some wr setups and see how hard is to make a full lap 2 or 3 seconds slower than wr without making counter steers. IRL only some turn exits where we press the throtlle too soon we need counter steers... not doing the turn like in lfs.

still I think fwd and 4wd are almost perfect, rwd still needs tweaking... or at least improve the cars quality try to simulate a m3, a slk amg, a am vantage.

Quote from XCNuse :

The Last time I took around a sharp turn at 40 mph scared the sh*t out of me, not to mention did my tires squeal.

If we ever meet and I offer you a ride, just walk away , tire squeal is like music to my ears lol


also noticed that first half of the clutch doesnt do anything... which is a bit too much... at least on the cars that I have and drove... on an uphill to make the car not moving I have about 85% of the clutch pressed and a bit of throttle... which isnt too far from real but IRL the clutch as a more dynamic effect than in lfs, in lfs its' just like on, off and one point at about 85%, all the rest doesnt do anything...

well going to try new setups, I'll tell you my opinion later today maybe my idea of the rwd improves.