I turned on the TV today pleasantly suprised to see some GREAT SPEED Touring Car action at LimeRock. I was looking forward to seeing some awesome GT action at limerock as well(GT almost always directly follows Touring Car broadcasts). Much to my dismay, the GT series was not at Lime Rock. They were at Charlotte.

The track was the Charlotte 'oval,' with two chicanes added. One being the first turn of the mini oval connecting to the pitlane, the other being some tractor tires placed across the track before NASCAR turns 3 and 4. From the couple laps I watched before turning off the TV in disgust, it looked as if some of the cars barely had enough steering lock to make it around the second chicane it was so tight. You could literally not fit two cars through it, and getting two cars through the first chicane was suicidal. This was taking place on the same weekend of the NASCAR 'All-Star' race at Charlotte, and two NASCAR drivers were scheduled to take part (Only one did, however, due to the other being relieved of his ride when a championship contender needed the car).

What the hell were they thinking? Has SCCA turned into NASCAR's little play toy? Does SCCA Actually think that the SPEED World Challenge needs more exposure, and during a NASCAR event at that? Most importantly, is this moronic display ever going to happen again?

Someone seriously deserves to be fired for this bone-head move. Keep road course racing on the road courses, please.

Hmm... not doubting you here, but are you sure?

I'm from Charlotte, and there is a really nice little infield section (like Kyoto National) that is typically used for the Speed series, ALMS too (like 6 years ago ).

Sad and REALLY confusing as to why they didn't run the infield part of the track.

Utterly silly.

NASCAR have too much control over motorsport in the USA. Over here, the France family would have been ordered to sell ISC ages ago. They won't even sign up to the world governing body FFS!

I'd love to see NASCAR implode, they have a monopoly over stock car racing, they took the sport in the wrong direction with the COT*, they go to superspeedways because they can get more arses on seats than at a track with some balls and they failed to internationalise when there is clearly taste for Cup races in Mexico and Canada.

*The COT was silly. They should have changed over to pony car body styles and that would make the cars look better, seem less stupid and ease international promotion. And dare I mention the lack of fuel injection, unleaded fuel and 5th gears? Moses probably had more technology on his car. **

** If he drove one. Supposedly the roar of his Triumph could be heard from throughout the land

Quote from duke_toaster :

Utterly silly.

NASCAR have too much control over motorsport in the USA. Over here, the France family would have been ordered to sell ISC ages ago. They won't even sign up to the world governing body FFS!

I'd love to see NASCAR implode, they have a monopoly over stock car racing, they took the sport in the wrong direction with the COT*, they go to superspeedways because they can get more arses on seats than at a track with some balls and they failed to internationalise when there is clearly taste for Cup races in Mexico and Canada.

*The COT was silly. They should have changed over to pony car body styles and that would make the cars look better, seem less stupid and ease international promotion.

Wow... worthless, And TOTALLY off the Subject.

SCCA runs Speed Challenge, and has NOTHING to do with NASCAR.

NASCAR is the largest in stock car by far, but don't rule out organizations like CASCAR or V8 touring cars.

COT was (is?) silly? It's Stock car racing, not Sports Car/ Pony car racing. I don't see how Mustangs would ease international promotion.

NASCAR isn't going to disenfranchise their American fan base by cutting US races to add Canada/Mexico ones, it just doesn't make sense.

Oval tracks don't have balls. Nice.

COT went the wrong way? HOW? By making a Safer, more equal and competitive car, that will be less expensive?

Seem less Stupid? Huh? The Camry is what, the best selling car in the world...

I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but PLEASE, don't start bashing them for no real reason in the middle of a thread totally off the subject of NASCAR.

Cute update. The cars are unleaded.

not a huge nascar fan, but the lack of any sort of engine like tech innovation is basically down to how hard it is atm to have any kind of electronics, and apparently with fuel injection it would be too easy to sneak some sort of TC in.

Quote from srdsprinter :

SCCA runs Speed Challenge, and has NOTHING to do with NASCAR.

They ran a half-assed support race to the NASCAR 'All-Star' event. NASCAR obviously had something to do with it.

Quote :

NASCAR is the largest in stock car by far, but don't rule out organizations like CASCAR or V8 touring cars.

V8 Tourings cars aren't 'stock cars,' they're Touring Cars. Also, CASCAR is dead. It is now owned by NASCAR, and called the 'NASCAR Canadian Tire Superseries.' (Name might be slightly off, but it is not CASCAR anymore, and is owned by NASCAR as of last year)

Quote :

COT was (is?) silly? It's Stock car racing, not Sports Car/ Pony car racing. I don't see how Mustangs would ease international promotion.

The COT is dumb. It goes ever further away from 'stock' than the 'normal' stock cars. The hell is with the wing? Air Dam? Complete lack of anything relating to the road-going counterpart aside from head a tail-light decals?

Quote :

NASCAR isn't going to disenfranchise their American fan base by cutting US races to add Canada/Mexico ones, it just doesn't make sense.

They're doing it already. Bush and CTS run races in Mexico (have for 2 years now?), and Bush is running a race in Montreal this year. (Which kicked the CCWS out of its Montreal date. For the best though, they are now racing at Mont Tremblant, which is a FAR FAR FAR superior circuit) Also, the Cup series had one or two races in Japan. They even raced in the rain over there, windshield wipers and all!

Quote :

Oval tracks don't have balls. Nice.

I think you misread, he said Superspeedways don't have balls. The short tracks, on the other hand, do. At least, that's how I took his comments.

Quote :

COT went the wrong way? HOW? By making a Safer, more equal and competitive car, that will be less expensive?

All good points. But it doesn't change the fact it is even further away from stock than other cars were. Safer and cheaper is a plus, but that could have been done in something that doesn't look like a 17 year-olds riced out Honda POS.

Quote :

I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but PLEASE, don't start bashing them for no real reason in the middle of a thread totally off the subject of NASCAR.

I honestly think this moronic event had a lot to do with NASCAR. The SPEED GT series played second fiddle to NASCAR. Not only that, but NASCAR Gave them the broken fiddle to use, too. NASCAR has monopolised stock car racing, and turned into a pile of crap. I don't hate stock car or oval racing, but I do hate NASCAR. They have ruined oval racing for me, and that will never be repaired.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Wow... worthless, And TOTALLY off the Subject.
SCCA runs Speed Challenge, and has NOTHING to do with NASCAR.

But they are flexing their muscles on SWC by having them as a support event running on a hugely inappropriate course.

Quote :

COT was (is?) silly? It's Stock car racing, not Sports Car/ Pony car racing. I don't see how Mustangs would ease international promotion.

No, that's that NASCAR would be more presentable internationally if they were to use car body styles that are internationally available.

Quote :

NASCAR isn't going to disenfranchise their American fan base by cutting US races to add Canada/Mexico ones, it just doesn't make sense.

Canada and Mexico dates would expand the NASCAR fan base. If fan bases were not expanded by international events, why did NASCAR do an exhibition race at Suzuka in 99 and the NFL play a game in Mexico in 06 (and will play a game in London later this year!)

Quote :

Oval tracks don't have balls. Nice.

No, it's not ovals that don't have balls. It's superspeedways that are lacking in balls. They move towards superspeedways over half mile and short track races. Bristol and so-on are tracks that will generate more action than Talladega.

Quote :

COT went the wrong way? HOW? By making a Safer, more equal and competitive car, that will be less expensive?

Safe? O RLY ... you realise that side impact foam is flammable Yes, the seat is being moved towards the centre which is good. They are improving some things whilst harming others. They could have just moved the seat right to the centre of the cockpit.

Quote :

Seem less Stupid? Huh? The Camry is what, the best selling car in the world.

I thought that was the Ford Focus but I haven't seen any stats on that.

Quote :

Cute update. The cars are unleaded.

Since half way through last year.

SPEED GT is becoming a joke - all US sanctioning bodies are sucking Bill France's cock because unfortuantly SPEED GT and TC won't sell out (or anywhere near) tracks without the NASCAR factor.

In FIA events, this couldn't and wouldn't happen. It sounds like the chicanes were as tight as the A1GP hairpin in China ...

if you ever get to see a broadcast, you'll notice all the cars have 2 ignition boxes on the dashboard, and the driver can switch between the two.

A couple years ago, the number of people having to switch because their primary ignition box went bad skyrocketed. I'm not sure it was ever proven, but the guess is that the ignition is programmed to provide somewhat rudimentary TC system.

NASCAR is different from other motorsport in that the main purpose is fan entertainment. They use engines with carbs and 4-speed tranny's because it still works in the sense of close competition and exciting races for the fans.

While outwardly it is not appealing to racing technology fans, the cars are remarkably developed within their specification.

Quote from duke_toaster :

*The COT was silly. They should have changed over to pony car body styles and that would make the cars look better, seem less stupid and ease international promotion. And dare I mention the lack of fuel injection, unleaded fuel and 5th gears? Moses probably had more technology on his car. **

Firstly the cars have been running on unleaded for a few years

Why should Nascar use fuel injection and 5 speed 'boxes when 4 speed 'boxes and carbs work just as well, stock car racing needn't be the height of technology to be fair it does produce some good racing and has plenty of satisfied fans. Personally it doesn't interest me but I don't see the point in regurgitating the same old argument just for the sake of taking a thread OT.

Quote from duke_toaster :

SPEED GT is becoming a joke - all US sanctioning bodies are sucking Bill France's cock

I sincerely hope that this will prove to be a false statement. If all NA motorsports goes to hell with NASCAR, I'm moving my Canuck butt to Europe.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Canada and Mexico dates would expand the NASCAR fan base. If fan bases were not expanded by international events, why did NASCAR do an exhibition race at Suzuka in 99 and the NFL play a game in Mexico in 06 (and will play a game in London later this year!)

What is this great social responsibility NASCAR have in bringing stock car to the world, they are in the end of the day an American organisation with no need to bring their championships outside the US, it's not as if they're struggling to find fans is it?

Quote from MAGGOT :

The COT is dumb. It goes ever further away from 'stock' than the 'normal' stock cars. The hell is with the wing? Air Dam? Complete lack of anything relating to the road-going counterpart aside from head a tail-light decals?

Oh come on, and the last time you saw someone on the road with a huge NASCAR spoiler was?

Quote from MAGGOT :

They're doing it already. Bush and CTS run races in Mexico (have for 2 years now?), and Bush is running a race in Montreal this year. (Which kicked the CCWS out of its Montreal date. For the best though, they are now racing at Mont Tremblant, which is a FAR FAR FAR superior circuit) Also, the Cup series had one or two races in Japan. They even raced in the rain over there, windshield wipers and all!

Cup series had a exhibition. Busch series has no fan base in America depending on which Cup drivers show up. Busch series will be Walmart or Subway next year.

Quote from MAGGOT :

I think you misread, he said Superspeedways don't have balls. The short tracks, on the other hand, do. At least, that's how I took his comments.

I didn't see that, but that certainly is an interesting opinion.

As for the Foam being flammable, obviously there was some slip-up. The foam burns at like 1200F iirc, and in testing the teams exhausts never got that hot. In the race it did, so they fixed it.
At least it didn't flip off the race track 3 times in one weekend...

The cars are much safer, the greenhouse and window is much larger for driver entry exit as well (which contributes to the new larger profile). The driveshaft is completely encapsulated in case it detatches. SAFER barriers are making racing safer for many series now as well, IRL CART F1.

Providing these attacking one-sided arguments isn't really getting anywhere.

The speed race was held on a Cup event weekend, which is probably why the infield couldn't be used. Despite the crappy track layout, it probably will be one of the best turnouts for a speed race this year.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Oh come on, and the last time you saw someone on the road with a huge NASCAR spoiler was?

I will concede that you are right on that point, but that doesn't make my point any less true. The 'normal' cars have some slight resemblance in terms of a couple dimensions which the COT does not. I think NASCAR needs to remove the 'stock' from the 'stock car' racing title.

Quote :

Cup series had a exhibition. Busch series has no fan base in America depending on which Cup drivers show up. Busch series will be Walmart or Subway next year.

Bush runs many races in locations where the Cup series does not, and they always have a great turnout.

Quote :

The speed race was held on a Cup event weekend, which is probably why the infield couldn't be used. Despite the crappy track layout, it probably will be one of the best turnouts for a speed race this year.

That's probably the exact reason the infield wasn't used. Still, they should not have been there in the first place, they should have been at Limerock. It will be the best turnout for a SPEED race this year, because it was a NASCAR All-Star event. I'd guess it was run just before the All-Star race was, but I Don't know for sure. The people in the stands were more than likely there to see NASCAR stuff, not 'road course' racing.

I gotta wonder how much this has to do with SPEED's 'affiliation' with NASCAR (I know affiliation isn't the right word, but I can't think of the proper word for this situation). Anyone who has the channel knows its half NASCAR programming (they don't even show the races, though. Just all the praccy/quali sessions along with endless hours of stupid talk shows). As SPEED Channel is the title sponsor of the series there could be a connection there.

The stickers are necessary, because NASCAR has made the templates of the cars the same, with the noses being the only thing that physically represents uniqueness between the manufactures. It's in the intrests of competition and decreased owner costs. Good, bad, whatever, it is what it is...

Busch series has had good attendance in Mexico Canada, but as of late has Really Really struggled in the US, especially on weekends where there is no Cup race.

I've had the same conversation with my dad several times, there has NOT been a carburated engine in a Ford/Chevy/Toyota street car for ... ~20 years! And the last 4 speed manual tranny was ... I have no idea.

In fact, the Avenger, Impalla, Mote Carlo, Fusion, and Camry are All FWD (only the Charger is RWD). Only 3 of them even offer a V8, albeit with almost half the displacement for the chevy's.

I personally would love NASCAR to use their might to force the manufacturers to at least create something with the same basic drivetrain configuration as whats raced. But as for now, we are stuck with what NASCAR has evolved into, highly competitive, profitable, racing entertainment.

I wish the stars had lined up differently, and that Trans-am would have made it, ALMS would have taken off, but you Cannot(!) blame NASCAR for their sucess. The landscape would be very different now if the CART/IRL owners pulled their heads out of their own asses and never split up. When they did that, NASCAR was the only thing left on the American scene, and
it filled the void as it had been growing already.

About 26 years ago, Sports Cars went to Charlotte, and had a race (non-nascar weekend). Over 200,000 Fans showed up, paid for tickets, and watched as international sportscars duked it out around the Charlotte infield and oval. 6 (i believe) years ago, ALMS came back. It was the first year of the R8, but audi brought the prior car R7. BMW had its V12LMR there, as well as Panoz, lola, and all the GT cars. Put on a great race too, but only 10,000 showed up. Its just the way things have gone lately, and nothing seems to be to eager to change it.

Quote from MAGGOT :

I turned on the TV today pleasantly suprised to see some GREAT SPEED Touring Car action at LimeRock. I was looking forward to seeing some awesome GT action at limerock as well(GT almost always directly follows Touring Car broadcasts). Much to my dismay, the GT series was not at Lime Rock. They were at Charlotte.

The track was the Charlotte 'oval,' with two chicanes added. One being the first turn of the mini oval connecting to the pitlane, the other being some tractor tires placed across the track before NASCAR turns 3 and 4. From the couple laps I watched before turning off the TV in disgust, it looked as if some of the cars barely had enough steering lock to make it around the second chicane it was so tight. You could literally not fit two cars through it, and getting two cars through the first chicane was suicidal. This was taking place on the same weekend of the NASCAR 'All-Star' race at Charlotte, and two NASCAR drivers were scheduled to take part (Only one did, however, due to the other being relieved of his ride when a championship contender needed the car).

What the hell were they thinking? Has SCCA turned into NASCAR's little play toy? Does SCCA Actually think that the SPEED World Challenge needs more exposure, and during a NASCAR event at that? Most importantly, is this moronic display ever going to happen again?

Someone seriously deserves to be fired for this bone-head move. Keep road course racing on the road courses, please.

I saw both of them, the race at LimeRock was decent to watch, and pretty cool, the NASCAR oval with a couple chicanes made me puke.

Just to throw this out there, the GT race was held on May 24th. The Nascar All Star race was on May 19th, and the Coca Cola 600 was on May 27th. So it is not like the fans went to Charlotte to watch Nascar on a Thursday.


Edit: Well I think Nascar Cup qualifying was on the 24th, so drop the theory I posted above.

I think people are missing the point that the cars in NASCAR have NOTHING to do with their branded counterpart. The branding on the car is an advertising gimic and has been for many years, I wish people would realize that and get off the Ford/Chevy/Dodge bashing.

As for SPEED GT and TC they need as much exposure as they can get.

Even the SCCA has admitted it was a mistake, they wont be returning next season, they thought it was going to be a good idea, It didnt work out...


get the **** over it, nobody's perfect

btw according to dave dispain, the infeild road course is no longer operable

Quote from DodgeRacer :

btw according to dave dispain, the infeild road course is no longer operable

sad to hear that. It was decent, certainly better than oval +2 chicanes.

The international karting course on the infield is very fun though, from personal experience!

Quote from DodgeRacer :

Even the SCCA has admitted it was a mistake, they wont be returning next season, they thought it was going to be a good idea, It didnt work out...

WOOHOO! You just made my day

Quote :

get the **** over it, nobody's perfect

btw according to dave dispain, the infeild road course is no longer operable

I can accept a slip-up like this as long as it's not done again (which according the beginning of your post, wont) so I'm fine now.

Even if the infield was operable, it would not have been used. I don't think they'd want to kick a bunch of drunk NASCAR fans outta the infield for a race :P

On SPEED GT:

It did seem pretty lame. The "T1" chaos (that stupid chicane) on the opening laps were pretty embarrassing. Made everyone look like amateurs, which of course they aren't.

Then there was that stupid wheel. A girl spun a wheel to determine how many of the top 5 positions after "the first session" would be swapped around. WTF? This isn't some

I think some of your post is missing Mattesa. lol

Yea, the big wheel thing was moronic; again, I think that was only there because of the NASCAR situation. IIRC the same kind of thing either happens in the All-Star race or one of the events in Daytona before the 500. Used to be called 'The Winston' I think, but now that Winston is gone as the title sponsor...

IMO!

Nascar has become complete bullsh!t.

COT cars are half a step forward for safety, and 1000 steps backwards for the sport...

International races are ridiculous...

Nascar picks favorites, and basically chooses who wins races from week to week.

Famous Debris Cautions.. where no debris is ever found..

The 35 people locked in: Bullsh!t... if you're too slow to make the race, you shouldn't be allowed to race... period.


but w/e

thats my 2 cents

Quote from MAGGOT :

Yea, the big wheel thing was moronic; again, I think that was only there because of the NASCAR situation. IIRC the same kind of thing either happens in the All-Star race or one of the events in Daytona before the 500. Used to be called 'The Winston' I think, but now that Winston is gone as the title sponsor...

It's the All Star Race. The same thing happens for race 3 in the BTCC. For race 1 the grid is on quali, for race 2 the results of race 1 with no-one reversed and for race 3 it is the top so many reversed.

They don't do the wheel thing any more though, it's 4 20 lap races with a 10 minute break between the first 2 and a few SC laps between 1/2 and 3/4. They used to and it used to be some sort of knockout thing which should be kept in pro cycling.