I'd like to know if LFS is good as it is, cause if Scawen stop studing and working on the simulation, the logic tell me that this part of the game is ready.

Is it good at this stage?

Because for months and months I've heard that this bs of infinites resources has been necessary to make the game stronger, consistent and free of bugs.

In fact I can imagine that each time you filled a software with bs, it becomes weak, dangerous and unstable... ok, this is not the real fact with LFS, cause it is still a game with great stability, even being a DX8 based game in the ages of DX10...

But the big question is: is this the big simulator ever? I think that it is in the mind of the majority of this community, and maybe in the dev's heads too, cause I can't see nobody concerning when or how the things will be made to better perform a real simracing.

Where is the oil heating, brake waste, and water boiling?

Will people lose the engine when reducing from 6th to 2nd in a half second?

Will the aerodynamic be seriously calculated and performed?

Will we be able to step at 20 kmh on the grass without skid?

Will the cars stop flying 30m above when soft touch a wall or other car?

No, this is not thread "WHEN". I don't really want to know when. I just ask for a "WILL"...

Quote from Speed Soro :

I'd like to know if LFS is good as it is, cause if Scawen stop studing and working on the simulation, the logic tell me that this part of the game is ready.

Is it good at this stage?

Because for months and months I've heard that this bs of infinites resources has been necessary to make the game stronger, consistent and free of bugs.

In fact I can imagine that each time you filled a software with bs, it becomes weak, dangerous and unstable... ok, this is not the real fact with LFS, cause it is still a game with great stability, even being a DX8 based game in the ages of DX10...

But the big question is: is this the big simulator ever? I think that it is in the mind of the majority of this community, and maybe in the dev's heads too, cause I can't see nobody concerning when or how the things will be made to better perform a real simracing.

Where is the oil heating, brake waste, and water boiling?

Will people lose the engine when reducing from 6th to 2nd in a half second?

Will the aerodynamic be seriously calculated and performed?

Will we be able to step at 20 kmh on the grass without skid?

Will the cars stop flying 30m above when soft touch a wall or other car?

No, this is not thread "WHEN". I don't really want to know when. I just ask for a "WILL"...

All those questions that you have asked should be completed by S3 final. Just we don't when it will be released or finalized. LFS is definitely a very large project by ONLY three people at this moment.

im sure the devs are working on all those questions you asked

Where is the oil heating, brake waste, and water boiling?

im sure this will be in final or s3 cause we have working dials atm, brake waste would be ok but i think we need brake wear first.

Will people lose the engine when reducing from 6th to 2nd in a half second?

not sure if your dumb enough to put a car from 6th to second at full speed should you be playing lfs or N4S?

Will the aerodynamic be seriously calculated and performed?

it already is isnt it?

Will we be able to step at 20 kmh on the grass without skid?

not sure?

Will the cars stop flying 30m above when soft touch a wall or other car?

i know the damage model still needs work but the flying cars is due to internet lag somtimes you get air sometimes just a nudge and slight movement.

i hope ive answerd some of your questions but im sure im wrong on a few maybe some other will have better answers?

also searching some of those questions would have helped too.

I wonder how many times this questions will pop up, maybe whe should have a counter for every time someone starts a thread asking if more realistic features will be implemented.

About what you are asking, every thing you are asking is supposed to be completed in S2 final, well maybe not everything but most of them.

What you're asking for is a development Road Map. I've wanted to know what direction the dev's are heading also, as it helps us understand the little changes and quirks found in the sim.

The best example I can think of is the development of an ongoing space trading game called eve-online. The devs there always have their plans all laid out for everyone to see and discuss. It keeps people interested and involved in the game they enjoy so much.

They have sections such as Patch notes, Dev Blogs, In Testing, In Development, On the Drawing Board. Of course we get stuck into testing with scawen & victor, but we don't get much in the way of blogs, and we certainly get nothing about anythign currently in development or in planning. It either comes down to the size of the dev team (or lack thereof), or that Scawen simply does not with to commit to anything by giving us hints on his plans for the future of LFS. Personally, I think this is a mistake, and I really think they need a Community Manager to handle things like this. No one has a clue what's happening with LFS, and I bet many people have stopped playing because of this.

I mean, when was the last new content added to LFS? We don't even know if Eric is in fact working on the sim, or if he's off on holidays (I'm not making accusations, just pointing out the lack of info here).

I'm not criticising the work, I'm just questioning scawen's way operating... LFS shouldn't stay a 1-3 man operation forever, and I strongly think the "APLHA" label is no longer a sufficient excuse - LFS is too popular now. Expand!

whoops I think I got a bit carried away there :\

If those things aren't on the devs' to-do list I'd be very surprised, considering the number of threads about them that already exist ...

Quote from Hankstar :

If those things aren't on the devs' to-do list I'd be very surprised, considering the number of threads about them that already exist ...

Agreed, nice avatar....

Quote from Burnzoire :

whoops I think I got a bit carried away there :\

It doesn't matter how much or how little Scavier do in public relations area, there will still be threads like these

I've been around these forums since 2004 and I'm pretty confident that they will cover most if not all the aspects Speed Soro raises and much more than that by the time they get to S3 - how do I know this? Simply by reading all the comments from Scawen and Victor over the years.

They have been pretty open and forth coming with info about LFS, it's just people don't seem to take in or remember what they say for more than a few days I don't think Scaviers "will" is any less than in 2002 it's just that people are not very patient - we live in a fast food society these days were every thing is on demand, so quite understandable If a project takes 10 years to complete that is not that unreasonable if its quality work

the devs surely have a plan on how to go about improving LFS. they make changes and adjustments to the plan along the way, of course.

"Dev" does still stand for "developer" and not "some dude sitting around not planning to do anything else", after all

Quote from Hankstar :

Thanks! All my own work Hit the first dead face in my sig to see more [/plug]

OT ALERT!

LOL! I would have never thought that those dead faces were actually links!

I'm utterly convinced that all these items WILL be implemented sooner or later. I'm convinced there exists a roadmap for LFS development. It absolutely doesn't bother me that I don't know that roadmap.

Also, I suspect that many of the missing/buggy items mentioned by the original poster may already be implemented/fixed in one or multiple development versions hidden away in the depths of the development source tree.

I'm happy to wait. LFS is of outstanding quality already. I got my money's worth many times over.

God, LFS fans are spoiled rotten. We get more dev contact and responses (and patches, by the way) than any other sim I've been into and some people still act as if Scawen's hiding under a rock. The dude's got his hands FULL coding this sim and people seem to think he should post in every thread or give us a timeline or a roadmap or make a definitive list of every single thing the team intend to include in LFS or some other such waste of time. Can people not make the link between "Scawen doesn't answer every thread" and "Scawen's probably busy as hell coding LFS"? Why must we keep getting these threads on the front page?

People say they understand how the devs want to work but keeping following it with "BUT ..." like they know better. "BUT Scawen could work faster, BUT the devs could make more money, I don't wanna criticise BUT ..." etc etc. Kids. Come on. Surely we know better after four years?

wow talk about missing the point. When one person is in charge of practically everything, NO WONDER scawen has no time to write blogs or talk about the sim's future or any of that. And as far as hiding under a rock goes, re-read my post, I was referring to Eric. The guy who makes the (wonderful) content, not the functionality. Under a rock would fit in really well there if you ask me. No one can say for certain what is going on in the background with regards to LFS development, not at all. We have Scawen keeping us up to date and working his butt off, and for that I am extremely greatful for... but I don't agree that everything besides the utmost latest features have to be kept secret. People like to be re-assured that their sim is going in the "right" direction. Hell, people have even paid for S3, and we don't have any information whatsoever for it!

It has nothing to do with being "spoilt". Wake up, this isn't 1990 and contact with developers for an online game is a pretty common thing. It's 2007 and to be shot down for politely asking for information on upcoming features is rather childish imo.

Why do people so often think they have to provide the devs with advice so that "LFS can get big", or "Devs can make a lot of money", or "can beat the competition"... You should read up on posts by the devs about their motivations and way of working. Then you would know those aren´t primary motivations for the devs.
Especially Speed Soro should read up more, since this isn´t exactly the first time he is missing the point regarding this. You should start an consultancy agency or something.

I wasn't responding to you Burnzy, for the record. Sorry, but it's not all about you

My post was a general comment about the attitudes some of my forum brethren hold towards LFS' progress. Not my fault if anyone took it personally.

Scawen & Vic post regularly here, giving us plenty of information & assistance so we can all sleep at night. That's two-thirds of the entire LFS team. If one - Eric - wants to avoid this forum and just get his groove on I really can't blame him.

I've never seen an online game where you see the devs posting on the forums regularly. Customer Service reps, sure. Moderators, absolutely. But never the actual coders; the ones who make the decisions in the game. In this, LFS is (as far as I know) unique.

Not only that, but the sim is still in development. You might claim that Game X has devs who post, but my bet would be that Game X has gone gold and they're only trolling for bug reports.

My bet would be that most of the things (if not all of them) from the OP will eventually make it into the game. The basis for engine damage due to over-revving is already there, like the building blocks for most of the other stuff mentioned.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Scawen got bored working on nothing but physics and netcode (who wouldn't?), so decided to make some 'fun' changes, which is why we're getting false starts and more racers added. I bet once that goes live he'll be back to the boring grind until the next time he wants to stop bashing his head off the wall. We're getting a bit of class balancing too.

So to me it looks like they want to keep the current users happy with a bit of new content while they work on the important unseen, behind-the-scenes stuff that forms the basis of the sim. And I bet that's the way they'll keep rolling it out.

Quote from Speed Soro :

I'd like to know if LFS is good as it is, cause if Scawen stop studing and working on the simulation, the logic tell me that this part of the game is ready.

Is it good at this stage?

Because for months and months I've heard that this bs of infinites resources has been necessary to make the game stronger, consistent and free of bugs.

In fact I can imagine that each time you filled a software with bs, it becomes weak, dangerous and unstable... ok, this is not the real fact with LFS, cause it is still a game with great stability, even being a DX8 based game in the ages of DX10...

But the big question is: is this the big simulator ever? I think that it is in the mind of the majority of this community, and maybe in the dev's heads too, cause I can't see nobody concerning when or how the things will be made to better perform a real simracing.

Where is the oil heating, brake waste, and water boiling?

Will people lose the engine when reducing from 6th to 2nd in a half second?

Will the aerodynamic be seriously calculated and performed?

Will we be able to step at 20 kmh on the grass without skid?

Will the cars stop flying 30m above when soft touch a wall or other car?

No, this is not thread "WHEN". I don't really want to know when. I just ask for a "WILL"...

go back to stage one, and read again about LFS development before asking BS questions:

LFS physics isnt finished, LFS gfx isnt finished, LFS netcode isnt finished.

It's just in a stage, where you could say this is Stage 2 on the way to final. The devs wont stop until S3 is reached, and if they stopped, this is not the finished product, but a well working semi-finished one. Most of the community know this, and give a shit on the questions you ask, cause they know it WILL change and be added in the future.

Mission of useful thread creation: failed.

Quote from Speed Soro :

I'd like to know if LFS is good as it is, cause if Scawen stop studing and working on the simulation, the logic tell me that this part of the game is ready.

Erm, what?

Quote from Speed Soro :

Is it good at this stage?

Yes, which is why it's one of the most popular simulators.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Because for months and months I've heard that this bs of infinites resources has been necessary to make the game stronger, consistent and free of bugs.

Infinite? No, it just takes longer to make smaller improvments. Law of diminishing returns and all that.

Quote from Speed Soro :

In fact I can imagine that each time you filled a software with bs, it becomes weak, dangerous and unstable... ok, this is not the real fact with LFS, cause it is still a game with great stability, even being a DX8 based game in the ages of DX10...

LFS certainly isn't weak, dangerour or unstable. And we don't really need DX10. The only thing I'd like that DX10 seems able to provide is the lighting as in Crysis. We do not need crappy cartoony shaders as in other sims.

Quote from Speed Soro :

But the big question is: is this the big simulator ever? I think that it is in the mind of the majority of this community, and maybe in the dev's heads too, cause I can't see nobody concerning when or how the things will be made to better perform a real simracing.

No, I can see it either. We've only had 41 test patches, with better diff simulation and jump starts. Qualifying starts from the pits. These are quite big realism/immersion things. And we know that there will be a patch Y with nice incompatible things. I don't see any progress!

Quote from Speed Soro :

Where is the oil heating, brake waste, and water boiling?

Maybe it's in patch Y on Scawen's drive. Maybe he's got a few tests going on that he plays with now and again. Maybe that's going to be 'selling point' of Y. Who knows. But I assure you it will come. I'll bet my £165,000 house on it.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Will people lose the engine when reducing from 6th to 2nd in a half second?

Only if it over-revs it. I canshift down pretty quickly and not over-rev.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Will the aerodynamic be seriously calculated and performed?

I doubt it will be seriously calculated, as even F1 teams can't do CFD analysis in real time. But I think it will get better, with more features, more accuracy, and more dependance on driving (and yaw).

Quote from Speed Soro :

Will we be able to step at 20 kmh on the grass without skid?

Do you mean stop? I can stop from 20km/h without skidding in LFS on grass. And I can stop from 20km/h on grass with a huge skid in real life. What's your point? Do you want me to come round and modulate the brakes for you?

Quote from Speed Soro :

Will the cars stop flying 30m above when soft touch a wall or other car?

Scawen has acknowledged a few bugs in the collision detection, so I think it'll be reduced soon. But I haven't seen such a crash for months. Have you tried not crashing?

Quote from Speed Soro :

No, this is not thread "WHEN". I don't really want to know when. I just ask for a "WILL"...

Probably.

It all takes time "Rome wasn't built in a day"

Quote from Speed Soro :

I'd like to know if LFS is good as it is, cause if Scawen stop studing and working on the simulation, the logic tell me that this part of the game is ready.

Well, I've said many, many, many, many times, that I'd do this :

Fully Compatible Patches <- DONE
Multiplayer Incompatible Patches <- NEARLY DONE
Physically Incompatible Patches <- SOON STARTING

So, it's all gone exactly as planned so far, only there were a lot more things added in each stage. That's a good sign, isn't it?

Physically Incompatible Patches <- SOON STARTING cool thats good news there.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I doubt it will be seriously calculated, as even F1 teams can't do CFD analysis in real time. But I think it will get better, with more features, more accuracy, and more dependance on driving (and yaw).

speaking of which ... you somewhere posted that cfd is still way off in some cases
have you got any hard data on that ? just out of interest

Quote :

But I haven't seen such a crash for months.

you have been on the bug test servers havent you ?
its absolutely the single most annoying issue with lfs atm and to make it worse murphys law applies whenever i am involved ^^

Quote from Scawen :

Fully Compatible Patches <- DONE
Multiplayer Incompatible Patches <- NEARLY DONE
Physically Incompatible Patches <- SOON STARTING

Thread closed as far as I'm concerned.