hi, i dont want this thread become flaming-only again, just the point is:

lets say i will bring tonight 7 friends of mine on a pro server. we all are stupid and have nuttin better to do so we have fun in banning all peopz from the server couz we are 8 together so since patch x ... enuff!

after we successfully banned all, who didnt leave wisely, we go another server together and proceed.

dont think all s2 drivers are as same as nice as the most!

there are plenty of donkeys who think this way, i say to you its just a matter of time...

watched 2 guys talking on bugtestserver 2 days ago, their abusive language was so immense and just think of their racing. (known donkeys from demo)

i am not scared at all but i KNOW loads of "demo idiots" also got s2 next to the nice racers.

so my point is, that should not be the final version of the sys.

me personally would deffo like a voting of majority (>50%) with a reason why function, but its just my opinion

If 8 people think you're a tool and ban you, that's good enough for me. There are plenty of other servers, and you can always host your own if you don't like it.

he is saying, what if a group of 8 friends got together and just went around to different servers banning everyone..

Quote from ans7812 :

he is saying, what if a group of 8 friends got together and just went around to different servers banning everyone..

What are the posibilities for that? It's not demo, people actually payed to race in S2, not to ban people randomly..

i never said i agreed with him, i was just trying to make his point clearer to others

Well... I suppose a band of really boored people could do just that. Team up on a server and start banning people. But don't you think the chance is pretty good they would end up on the wreckers barricade pretty soon? I mean, that sort of behaviour would soon be pretty obvious. I'm not worried, and I like the 8 vote ban.

Silent vote is a bad idea because people will just vote without thinking. I like the fact that atm if you're going to vote to ban someone it displays your name, makes you think about whether it's necessary.

Moonforce,
I think the 8 people ban is really not so bad.8 people need to ban someone is really quite high number and ofcourse after big changes there will be always similar thread because its a big change and some people dont like big changes...pretty normal situation in realife as well.Maybe Scawen will adjust the system a bit.Everything new always need a bit polishing before it can be perfect but to say I really like the current system.

Even before there were servers where was easy to ban someone if these people has "agreed" to ban someone just for the "fun".It will be always like that no matter system you will set up.

The problem is that before the W48 & X patch we have been suffering much with the previous voting system.The race/testing were ruined by several morons on the test servers and with so many people on the server it was impossible to get rid of these guys.It was really frustrating.You say that some people ban for fun but sometimes also other people dont care to ban someone if this really needed.To find the balanced system to suit everyone will be never possible.Someone need to use the force to make the changes when really needed - Scawen. And dont worry DEVs really care about their comunity which is what I really like on LFS.

Look at it this way. With the previous system, if a group of 8 people wanted to go around banning others, all they had to do was find a server with 15 people on it (including themselves). So it's not like it was impossible before.

Also the point has already been made that in a server of 32 racers on track, it's incredibly unlikely that 17 them will have seen the bad behaviour that requires the kick/ban, so they are unlikely to vote. I think that 8 is a reasonable number that are likely to have been affected by an individual and can therefore vote meaningfully.

The number of votes needed to ban and kick should be a server setting which should be a percentage of those on the server

/voteban 50
/votekick 30

or at least make the number needed a setting

/vote 10

that way its up to the server owner how its set

either way i hope someone comes up with an admin tool that allows us to view and edit the bans online or it could be a nightmare on a busy server like ours

Quote from birder :

The number of votes needed to ban and kick should be a server setting which should be a percentage of those on the server

/voteban 50
/votekick 30

or at least make the number needed a setting

/vote 10

that way its up to the server owner how its set

either way i hope someone comes up with an admin tool that allows us to view and edit the bans online or it could be a nightmare on a busy server like ours

That's quite a good idea.

no need to have reason for kick/ban.It slows the system and I dont remember any other games having such a feature.

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

Moonforce,
I think the 8 people ban is really not so bad.8 people need to ban someone is really quite high number and ofcourse after big changes there will be always similar thread because its a big change and some people dont like big changes...pretty normal situation in realife as well.Maybe Scawen will adjust the system a bit.Everything new always need a bit polishing before it can be perfect but to say I really like the current system.

Even before there were servers where was easy to ban someone if these people has "agreed" to ban someone just for the "fun".It will be always like that no matter system you will set up.

The problem is that before the W48 & X patch we have been suffering much with the previous voting system.The race/testing were ruined by several morons on the test servers and with so many people on the server it was impossible to get rid of these guys.It was really frustrating.You say that some people ban for fun but sometimes also other people dont care to ban someone if this really needed.To find the balanced system to suit everyone will be never possible.Someone need to use the force to make the changes when really needed - Scawen. And dont worry DEVs really care about their comunity which is what I really like on LFS.

dobry DEVIl, i like also your point of view...

i know it was a mess in the bugtest server (at all only at the ones with fxo and rb4, couz lx6 and rac server the noobs didnt survive hehe) and therefore the 8 votes limit was quite good and helped to get rid of the "noobs" easy and fast. but i just want to show the other side of this, at all time will show if 50%+1 or 8 votes will the best way...

server side banning as option would be to think of maybe also...

bad idea just got banned by some ****ing idiots ewww

This is one reason we don't have Kick/ban enabled in any of our racing servers, including our demo server, we have quite a few different games running on our servers and not one have it enabled because, it always gets abused by someone, having said that we have a good group of admins chosen from racers who are cool, calm and reasoned when it comes to kicking people, hot heads and people who fly off the handle at the slightest bump or knock are not considered, accidents happen and people really need to get used to that.

This is a list of our excellent admins who give their time to look after our servers.

Boost
Martini
Silver77
Trix Wiv Stix
FBUT BMW M5
Oldman@Junior
Me of course

There's a couple more if I've missed you sorry.

Also if S2 is, as is claimed so much better than demo is there a need for kick/ban by anyone but admins. Just a thought

Hi Guys

I must agree with MoonForce and others like me that think that this new kick/ban voting system isn't the best for us.
Opinions may differ but the reality is that this voting system brought us a problem, an abuse problem.

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

The problem is that before the W48 & X patch we have been suffering much with the previous voting system.The race/testing were ruined by several morons on the test servers and with so many people on the server it was impossible to get rid of these guys.It was really frustrating.You say that some people ban for fun but sometimes also other people dont care to ban someone if this really needed.To find the balanced system to suit everyone will be never possible.Someone need to use the force to make the changes when really needed - Scawen. And dont worry DEVs really care about their comunity which is what I really like on LFS.

We know that devs really care for this community but one thing is to create an exception situation to address a momentaneous problem, like the one you describe during test sessions, the other it to maintain it after its no longer needed. I'm not saying the system didn't need some improved, consider this.
I trully believe that the 8 votes needed for kick/ban voting cant continue.
Many of us, good and less good drivers, are facing sad situations, like being ban without reason by a bunch of noobs, or do some bigger mistake then usual and crash a known racer on that server and you're doomed to be ban in a blink of an eye.
I even saw something that i consider really chocking, it was 2 great LFS drivers had an incident on t1 on test server, one vote to ban the other and the vote went thru, was a sad sight i can ensure you.

Quote from birder :

The number of votes needed to ban and kick should be a server setting which should be a percentage of those on the server

/voteban 50
/votekick 30

or at least make the number needed a setting

/vote 10

that way its up to the server owner how its set

either way i hope someone comes up with an admin tool that allows us to view and edit the bans online or it could be a nightmare on a busy server like ours

This could definitly be the solution, host decides the minimum of votes needed in their servers, diferent settings for kick and ban of course.

If not, could at least the Devs consider raising the current amount of votes needed. Again diferent values for kick and ban, as ban should require a deeper though and a bigger agreement among those on the server.

Regards

I luv Patch X

Bans should only be instigated and carried out by admins of that server and not anyone who feels like it.

this is mine story about 8 vote, somoene was crashing me and i said i ill vote to ban ,but hes first make this and i have been banned for nothing.

Quote from X-Ter :

Well... I suppose a band of really boored people could do just that. Team up on a server and start banning people. But don't you think the chance is pretty good they would end up on the wreckers barricade pretty soon?

More or less, I think the same. But anyway a server-side flexible banning system (with the possibility to choose the best method) would be nice and would be appreciated by people with different needs. Who knows, maybe in the future we will see it.

My only experience of this was on one of the bug test servers.

The race had a lot of crashing on pretty much every corner. I found it difficult to tell if this was deliberate wrecking (no one was complaining about it) or just some demolition derby fun.

Anyway I continued trying to race normally. On the second race, second lap, I had a guy behind who had overtaken me once, lost it on a corner and ended up behind me again. T2/3 at Blackwood I came out a bit hot and started to get a bit sideways. Guy behind came past on the inside of the slide and knocked me straight again Unortunately he then slid off in front of me. I straightened up, only to hear a horn and some guy swerving to avoid me. He must have overcontrolled since although he didn't hit me he still lost it and slid off.

First guy votes for a kick and types that I'm a wrecker in the chat. I didn't bother responding - what's the point? Anyway, a minute or so later I was off the server. Ho Hum, I relogged to the server, and before I could get to the track was banned.

So at least 6 of the 8 votes were by people who never saw the incident and 2 of the votes were by people involved who made an error of judgement but regardless, it was a racing incidient and certainly not an intentional wreck.


Anyway, I'm concerned about just 8 votes required for a ban. A kick maybe, but a ban is too far for most public servers (I can see the old STCC/UKCT license servers being messed up as a result). Unless it was possible to only ban after say 3 kicks in an hour or something.

Even better would be a system where a racer is ghosted with enough votes for 30 mins say. During this period they could race (from the back of the grid) but would be invisible (or at least ghosted) to others and not listed in race results and unable to wreck etc but at least able to still "participate" as such until the end of the ghost period. With this you could just get rid of the racer banning (leave that to the server admins).

This might help those who are bascially fair racers but slower or not quite so precise in their car control to get better in a "safe" environment.

Well, I guess the next few weeks will show whether the 8 vote ban works as desired.

Toad.

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

no need to have reason for kick/ban.It slows the system and I dont remember any other games having such a feature.

America's Army has it IIRC.

The vote ban could be reduced to something like an hour, enough so that the offender if they were guilty would have to find something else to do or if it was an innocent person they could come back in not much time.

Trying to develop a system where it can't be exploited by lazy/not smart people is a very hard problem. The recent changes seems to take the approach that it's better to ban an innocent person than allow a guilty person to go unbanned, which of course sucks for the innocent person who gets banned because of the lower threshold.

It's also good to note that only the people who had bad experiences are going to post here, all of the wreckers that did get banned justly aren't likely to come onto the forum complaining that they got banned for wrecking.