Heh. Anyway, just to note I wouldn't use this program with patch X due to the changes it the setup format. I'm working on those changes next along with a few of the other issues brought to my attention in this thread.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Heh. Anyway, just to note I wouldn't use this program with patch X due to the changes it the setup format. I'm working on those changes next along with a few of the other issues brought to my attention in this thread.

Since you plan on some updates... any chance you could include some more analisys on dampers as described in this attached document?

Thanks for the document, that's really interesting. I'm planning on adding more analysis and facilities over time, I can't guarantee anything will be added straight away but I want the program to do 'everything' eventually.

Bob, please keep us informed when you will update your nice program. In my opinion you did a fantastic job so far and I hope you will do so in future....
Thxs a lot for that.

Hey Ben.
Great program, very informative and useful, but is there any way you could make it usable for people running 1024x768? I'm running that resolution, and I can't fit the whole setup analyzer window on my screen, and it's not resizable. I dunno if this is just a bug with my version, bu it'd be nice if it could be resized

It will fit on a 1024 display with standard size (i.e. small) fonts. Part of the border will disappear behind the taskbar but you should still be able to read all the text.

I started working on a solution to 1024 large font users but haven't done anything for about a week, I really want to get an update sorted soon, hopefully in about a weeks time, that will support patch X and those users. If everyone's happy at that stage I can strip the "preview" from the title, name the app and update my website (which still only contains GRC2) and get on with adding new features somewhat at my leisure.

Interesting, after launching the program a couple more times, it's all fine on the font front. I just have to slide the window up a little bit to get the bottom line in, but it works okay.

An option to fullscreen the window would be pretty nice, I think. Either that or just a simple scrollbar along the side would be good too. But I'm sure these are things you've thought of already.

Excellent program by the way

Hey,

One thing I'd like to see, is Spring Frequency calculated. Currently it has Natural frequency, so it has all the data there to calculate frequence given in the formulas mentioned in that spring technical analysis pdf.

Another thing I'd like to see is Ride height adjustment too, and analysis. I'm sure you'll get to that eventually.

Another thing I'd like to see, is in clutch preload, an explanation of it, and if possible, an analysis of its effect on oversteer/understeer in the program.

Bob, you'd know detailed info on patch x. Is there anything in there that makes any changes to the physics aside from preload? I've found patch x handling to be quite different in the fox on aston club, and a few others have too. My previous set I'd do low 101's (WR is 100.2), but now with patch x, I can't get anywhere near my PB (101.09). Has something changed aside from preload?

Before, I had no problems taking the chicane with a low downforce set of 3/5 (front/rear). Now, it tends to slide out and skip alot. I loaded it into VDA but it says its fine (but obviously its not been fixed for X).

Venus

Other people are mentioning this but I've yet to notice it myself. There are no other changes in patch X, to my knowledge.

By ride height, are you refering to ground clearance?

I'm not sure what you mean regarding frequencies, I can't see anything relating natural frequency to ride frequency. I know dampers reduce the actual frequency (from natural) but can't find anythig to calculate that, after a quick scan through the document.

This analyzer does not take in count the changes caused by the differential, to the cars behavior.

Before the preload addition it was mainly down to the suspension, not to have sudden oversteery behavior while letting off the brake, by having a proper amount of understeer at that transition.

Now with the preload setting you can have always a certain amount of locking in addition to the power or coast lock.
That means the differential is resisting to the car’s turn more, when it is natural or decelerating, than before. (the opposite during acceleration due to the increased total lock.)

To have exactly the car’s behavior you got used to all that time, you could easily set the preload to 0.
Or if you have time and will to take advantage of the preload benefits, you could reduce the coast and the power locking setting step by step to achieve the same turn in and “power on” capabilities the setup had before and a more stable car trough the brake to acceleration transition.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Other people are mentioning this but I've yet to notice it myself. There are no other changes in patch X, to my knowledge.

It may just be aston club/fox problem. Ppl using both I've spoken to, have said they can't get near their pb's. Others say it feels better. lol Damned if I know, all I know is I can't take the chicane the same lol

Quote :

By ride height, are you refering to ground clearance?

I mean the same Ride Height as mentioned in setup in LFS.

Quote :

I'm not sure what you mean regarding frequencies, I can't see anything relating natural frequency to ride frequency. I know dampers reduce the actual frequency (from natural) but can't find anythig to calculate that, after a quick scan through the document.

Oh? I was referring to his formula to calculate frequency. I assumed this is different to natural frequency because natural frequency was a factor on the right side of the equation. (f frequency was being solved by it). However, I may have misinterpretted the math.


Ven

Quote from Venus :

I mean the same Ride Height as mentioned in setup in LFS.

So what's different between adjusting that and the spring length in this program? The numbers should match with the "motion range" figures and the effect is certainly the same.

ahh lol never thought of that lol...

Right, nearly 2 months without an update, about time I got around to getting this thing out of "preview" status. I'm hoping this will be the last preview release before it goes "official".

Changes since last release (RC2):
* Support for Patch X setup format
* Support for clutch pack pre-load (although no analysis is performed on the setting... yet)
* Support for mass handicaps
* Support for passengers
* More robust loading and saving of files (no more crashes or deleted set files, hopefully*), prompts for over-writing of existing files
* Separate unsprung and rolling mass figures, the wheel moment of inertia values now match with LFS (thus hopefully more accurate acceleration modelling of the LFS cars)
* Ability to use a different fuel type (affects fuel density)
* Test controls for users who cannot fit the main window on screen (turn on from users preferences)
* .vd3 format is now binary for size efficiency and reduced coding complexity - DP1 vehicle has been temporarily removed for this reason
* Other internal improvements and misc changes

*editing the setup you are currently driving with is not recommended, always edit sets from within the garage


Things still to add (for the first proper release):
* Adjustable scales for every graph [done]
* Motion ratio support [done]
* Smartening of the newly added test controls (assuming they successfully work-around the problem) [done]
* Some other internal improvements I have planned [done]
* Decide on a name!


Download RCX - link removed, please see first post

Update: last nights version had a problem, I'd forgotten to add handicaps to the setup file when saving. That's now added, same link as before. Also fixed the default/open roof inversion bug when saving.

Thanks for the update.

I still have problems with the file open/save function. If I make a setup and save it using "save as", it looks fine on my harddisk (filname.set). But if I try to open it again later with File menu -> Open, I always get the error message "Run-time error '9': Subscript out of range". And then the program close.
I can read setups saved by LFS though.

Aha, I've managed to reproduce that. It only happens if you use an incorrect filename. Specifically, the part of the filename before the first underscore.

The vehicle name is not stored in the setup, only in the filename, so it will try to find a vehicle with the name of the first part of the setup filename name (expanding recognised LFS short-hand names to full). The crash is due to the program searching the custom vehicle array when there aren't any custom vehicles. This array is only searched if a match is not found with the default vehicles, so while I can easily prevent the crash, you still won't be able to open the setup, as you'll just get an unknown vehicle error message instead.

Edit: The crash bug is fixed, re-uploaded the zip. Same link as before. Thanks for pointing it out.

Oh not sure if I mentioned in it my prvt msg Bob.

The test controls you added don't seem to help. Although the window is smaller; sides still off-screen; the graphs are still only partly shown. For instance, the springs view shows only half of the 4th graph and larger graphs show less. But I think leave that; and get the heart of the prog down first.

See pvt msg.

Ven

Quote from Venus :

Although the window is smaller; sides still off-screen; the graphs are still only partly shown. For instance, the springs view shows only half of the 4th graph and larger graphs show less.

The window size has not changed, see PM for more thorough explanation.

Not sure if anyones mentioned this but.........

In LFS, the XF GTi's (and probably other cars) compression and rebound damping is "tied", but in the analyzer, it isn't tied.

Obviously, you can make it the same in the program, but is there anyway you could "fix" the program so that it's "tied" to one slider?

Go to user preferences and tick "use simplified dampers", it does just that. You can also tick "use simplified diffs" to keep coast and power locking equal.

Obviously you'll need to untick again for others cars. I've not made it an automatic process, perhaps that's something I could add.

Cheers Bob

p.s. auto for those cars that have it would probably be a good idea

bob this is awesome thanks so much for creating this, I have learnt so much more about the car and setups now

the only thing id like is when u can do the auto adjust gears,
when u select equally spaced , you should be able to put a predefind % like the other settings, that would make it heaps easier to get ur ratios right

I also had a problem the ratios would go all wacky, like say I have 7th 6th and 5th gear dorted on the F1, when i go to change the slider for 4th, they go all wacky and screw up all the other gears as well, and no im not making the 5th gear shorter then 4th gear problem this is different.

every thing else is awesome, and im sure it will get even better when u fine tune it

also curious in the gear ratio calculator part, the gear graph
rotational velocity (RPM) v Speed graph
there is green line blue line and a red line, what are these lines? my interperetation was blue is the tourque curver and green peak HP ? am I right or completly off track?

cheers for any help and thanks again

Quote from seinfeld :

the only thing id like is when u can do the auto adjust gears,
when u select equally spaced , you should be able to put a predefind % like the other settings, that would make it heaps easier to get ur ratios right

The gearing auto-spacer never adjusts first or top gears. So if you want to change the percentage, adjust either first or last, and press the "re-apply" button.

Quote from seinfeld :

I also had a problem the ratios would go all wacky, like say I have 7th 6th and 5th gear dorted on the F1, when i go to change the slider for 4th, they go all wacky and screw up all the other gears as well, and no im not making the 5th gear shorter then 4th gear problem this is different.

If you could give me a more specific example I can have a look at what is going on.

Quote from seinfeld :

also curious in the gear ratio calculator part, the gear graph
rotational velocity (RPM) v Speed graph
there is green line blue line and a red line, what are these lines? my interperetation was blue is the tourque curver and green peak HP ? am I right or completly off track?

The horizontal lines do indeed represent the rpm values for pean torque (blue), power (green) and the rev limiter (red).
The rev limit has been updated in my version (it was defined as 1.22 * peak power rpm), now it is a unique engine parameter. I have also spruced up the graph below to colour highlight the parts of the torque curve used given the current gear ratios and shift points. That and plenty more to come in the next update.

thanks bob, the only issue with doing the equally spaced gearing, I always use a 1.00 final gear no matter what car, and say the BF1 for example, when I do the equally spaced gear, I only get a 10.3% difference between gears, and your wasting 800 ish rpm ,12 % is perfect hence why im asking, and then while adjustin that little bit more all the gears reset to 7.0 all of them!
to re produce set 7th to 1.00, then hit equally spaced gears, then adjust 6th to drop to 17350 rpm then 5th then 4th, and when u go to do 3rd it just makes all of the gears go to 7.00 I hope I explained that clearly enough for ya mate, let me know how it goes, if it doesnt do it 4 u I might do it and record with fraps or something to show u

Just a little bug report I haven't seen mentioned before:
- if I open your program and LFS is already open, than your program will be EXTREMELY slow, moving sliders happens with huge delay, practically unusable.