And what is wrong in staying with patch W ?

But yes repair option on reset online is a bit odd and hard to understand for me too. But again Scawen knows what's best for us.

Quote from joen :

That's where the discussion ends imo. Catering to subcultures like cruising is silly. Cruising was never the aim of LFS in the first place. Just because some people choose to use LFS in such a way does not mean LFS development should somehow change course and keep the cruising into account.

But it is not about keeping cruising in mind or catering to a niche group of users, it is purely that there's a lot of S2 users out there that, for whatever reason, would like the old multiplayer reset to be an option available as well. I think we all need to forget that cruise servers were mentioned at all and consider this.

I think old reset should be back, cause now your pretty much F'ed if you flip. You used to be able to just reset, so your car was right side up, but now since resetting fixes all damage, just like single player mode, they have dissabled the ability to reset.

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

In a cruise server you are F'ed too, because if you spec or pit without driving into the garage first, you get fined and lose your car (which btw takes hours of driving to earn the money for a nice one). Its too much of a pain for the admins to be dealing with that. Sure you could get sombody to flip you back over by ramming you, but what about when you hit a baricade and it sends you flying into the pit wall, or some area outside the track, where you can still drive? Then what?

And cruise servers are NOT a minority. Once all the servers are back, on the right, select the "Conns" button, so it displays servers in order from most populated to least populated, and you will see that the cruise servers are usually in the top 5. Not to mention, there are more than 4 cruise servers.

Also, the thing that where if you drive out of bounds, it specs you instead of setting you back on course... thats also pretty lame. In real life, god doesnt pick you up, put you in the pits, and force you to start back from lap one. Sure, god wont pick you up and set you back on the right course either, but which one do you think is more real?



I didnt want to sound like a whiney b*tch, but thats my 2 cents.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Where exactly does it say that reset = repair? I have never seen it on my server with reset enabled.

DK

Just try it... Your car will be repaired and gets some nice new tires when you do... That's why it's off by default (might be wrong there, Scawen said so in one thread)... The only thing resetting doesn't help you with is fuel...

@Scetchy: Tough. Don't flip then...

Really, when you land your car on your roof in a track race, it's race over, and that's the end of it...

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

-snap-

Don't crash

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

I
So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

Neither is real life. That is why Live For Speed is a racing simulator, to simulate real life elements.

I am all for non resets. You flip, your race is done.

Quote from jayhawk :

You flip, your race is done.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

I think old reset should be back, cause now your pretty much F'ed if you flip. You used to be able to just reset, so your car was right side up, but now since resetting fixes all damage, just like single player mode, they have dissabled the ability to reset.

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

In a cruise server you are F'ed too, because if you spec or pit without driving into the garage first, you get fined and lose your car (which btw takes hours of driving to earn the money for a nice one). Its too much of a pain for the admins to be dealing with that. Sure you could get sombody to flip you back over by ramming you, but what about when you hit a baricade and it sends you flying into the pit wall, or some area outside the track, where you can still drive? Then what?

And cruise servers are NOT a minority. Once all the servers are back, on the right, select the "Conns" button, so it displays servers in order from most populated to least populated, and you will see that the cruise servers are usually in the top 5. Not to mention, there are more than 4 cruise servers.

Also, the thing that where if you drive out of bounds, it specs you instead of setting you back on course... thats also pretty lame. In real life, god doesnt pick you up, put you in the pits, and force you to start back from lap one. Sure, god wont pick you up and set you back on the right course either, but which one do you think is more real?



I didnt want to sound like a whiney b*tch, but thats my 2 cents.

Agreed .

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

I think old reset should be back, cause now your pretty much F'ed if you flip.

As you would be in a real race. Don't flip.

Quote :

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

Why is that not fair? If you flip you made a mistake, so it's your own fault. Doesn't matter if your winning or not. Being able to recover from a flip and still being able to win or finish high, that's unfair because you wouldn't be able to do that in a real race.

Remember, LFS tries to be as realistic as possible. This change is another step in that direction.

And like already said, these changes were already announced so it's no use protesting anymore after they have been implemented.
This game is developed with certain goals in mind. And pleasing as many people as possible isn't one of them.

Quote :

And cruise servers are NOT a minority.

It's not a matter of being a minority or not. Cruising is simply not the goal of LFS, no matter if there are two or twenty cruising servers.

Quote :

Also, the thing that where if you drive out of bounds, it specs you instead of setting you back on course... thats also pretty lame. In real life, god doesnt pick you up, put you in the pits, and force you to start back from lap one. Sure, god wont pick you up and set you back on the right course either, but which one do you think is more real?

The first one. In reality your car would be taken out of the gravel pit and returned to the team's pit box. Where it could be repaired or where you could take a spare car out. Sure, the most realistic would be having to spend hours repairing your car but this would force people to stop playing which ofcourse can never be the aim.

Also of importance:

Quote :

End-user license agreement
1.4 You must be aware that we can alter any aspect of LFS as we see fit. Improvements, fixes and/or changes made to the game, are to be expected.

I wonder how much bitching we see if a proper damage model, which tears up your suspension completely off from a "small" hit, is introduced some day.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

<snip>
In a cruise server you are F'ed too, because if you spec or pit without driving into the garage first, you get fined and lose your car (which btw takes hours of driving to earn the money for a nice one).
<snip>

Congrats, you've discovered just how retarded the cruise servers are, where you have to earn virtual money to get access to cars that you can drive to your heart's content in any other server and with much better competition.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

And cruise servers are NOT a minority. Once all the servers are back, on the right, select the "Conns" button, so it displays servers in order from most populated to least populated, and you will see that the cruise servers are usually in the top 5. Not to mention, there are more than 4 cruise servers.

Yes, you're right, brainless idiots really are the majority.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

Also, the thing that where if you drive out of bounds, it specs you instead of setting you back on course... thats also pretty lame. In real life, god doesnt pick you up, put you in the pits, and force you to start back from lap one. Sure, god wont pick you up and set you back on the right course either, but which one do you think is more real?

The one that punishes you the most for making such a grievous error. I would think that making one's way off the track in any racing series is an indication that the driver has retired from the race.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

I didnt want to sound like a whiney b*tch, but thats my 2 cents.

Too late.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

I don't think its a fair thing when the guy in front crashes out, then just as you reach where he was, he resets and appears right in front of you taking you and himself out of the race !

car reset is BAD for racing

The only time I've found it maybe a little frustrating with no reset is when you're in the MRT and you're facing a wall. Without reverse there's nothing to do but pit because you're just stuck. But overall I prefer the new way.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

But... why? If you make a mistake and flip, then you've lost the race. You shouldn't have made the mistake. Even if it's a 24 hour race. Sorry

If someone else makes you flip on purpose then they should be banned.

Have I missed something? Why does the resetting make a difference anyway? The server host can have it turned on, can't it?

TBH I did like being able to reset, without a fixed car or new tyres, in case I did make a mistake. But considering my first sentence above I'm still behind Scawen for the changes, and would be even if he decided to remove the option completely. It IS a racing simulator

Turning off reset in serious races is great. I´m all for it.

But I don´t understand why the old system was scrapped. Why can´t we have all the 3 options for server admins to choose from: Fix damage / The old system / No reset? The old system was great if you wanted just to have fun in a non-serious way (ramp races, AI challenges, CnR, etc.). The race servers can turn the resetting off so what possible harm does it do to the serious realistic racers in front of their computer screens when others have the possibility to have fun in their own way? Having the third option too won´t harm the "goal". It seems a lot of people here have the attitude "I don´t want/need it, so noone else should have it either" or the complete fanboys "how dare you not agree with Scawen on absolutely everything in this world, blasphemy, HE knows what´s best for you".

Quote from al heeley :

<snip>
Long live democracy.

Actually, as Scawen himself has stated, LFS is not a democracy. He pretty much has complete control over the development process and can add/remove/change things as he sees fit. We may suggest changes but he always have the final say.

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. I trust his judgement*.

*except maybe with regard to the LX8.

+1 for the third reset option, why the hell not?

This thread is a good example of why I love and hate LFS all at the same time. Someone makes a suggestion that would take very little time to implement and it gets shot down because it's not directly related to racing.

I fully understand that LFS is a racing sim and, indeed, I spend the vast majority of my LFS time racing with the occasional bout of drifting (yes, that's right...I'm a sinner). If adding one small insignificant feature that is already coded anyway allows people to have fun on cruise servers or whatever then why shouldn't it be (re)added as a server option? It doesn't hurt LFS in anyway for it to exist. Sure you can argue that it's bad for racing but race servers aren't forced to have reset on...it's an option. If a server operator decides he wants a serious race server he turns off reset. Job done. If someone wants to set up a cruise server then they can use the reset without repair option. Job done. Did the quality of race simulation in LFS suddenly just take a dive? Apparently it did if 'popular' opinion is to be believed.

Personally I can't stand cruise servers. Do I think they shouldn't exist? Far from it. Their existence has in no way affected my enjoyment of racing in LFS so I'm quite happy for them to go on and if all the support that is requested is one very small feature that doesn't affect the rest of the game in anyway...well...it's not much to ask is it? Giving that minimal support could well be more than worth it. If someone wants to buy the game to cruise it puts money in the coffers for further development and could also bring more people into the racing side of LFS.

If people stopped using their time shooting down perfectly sensible suggestions on the forum and working to stop people spamming 'BLUE FLAG! BLUE FLAG!' in a race or 'EVERYONE RESTART PLEASE! SHIFT + R! SHIFT + R!' as soon as a race has finished then my enjoyment of LFS would be improved immensely.

As an aside, a lot of servers insist that you should hit Shift + S (well...Shift + P nowadays) as soon as you've had a crash. Am I the only person who believes that crashes are part of racing and if you take a spill in the middle of a pack of cars then they should just deal with it and avoid the incident if possible rather than driving blindly into the wreckage? It's not necessarily fun to get collected in an accident but it is definitely part of racing. I wonder how many people who are anti-reset-without-repair would disagree...hell telepitting should be taken out of the game entirely. If you crash then you've gotta wait for your car to be removed by crane/truck/whatever...bad luck...that's racing! Sorry for the off topicness but I was trying to make a point there somehow.

I personally would have preferred that the reset was removed totally, even for single player. What would help is replacing telepit with a retire from race button. And making setup changes take time (especially in quali).

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

I think if you flip in your last lap when leading, you only have yourself to blame really.....like you stuff it into a wall, and bent the car beyond drivable, it can only be your fault.

Its not that but he should have made the suggestion a month ago! Then it possibly would have been there now!

Reset is for wimps!

If you can't keep your car on its wheels it's your problem and you should practise.
I think Scaven should have removed it completely.

All you whining "I can't drive so I need reset" can just go practise. I have managed to get my car upside down only a few times, and I'm not a very good driver, so you really need to practise more. Yes, the collision system is F'ed up but everybody knows that. So just be carefull. It is a SIM after all. You don't go whining to the organisers if you turn your car over on a track day, do you? It was your own fault and you have to live with it.

I'm pissed and I'm going to go play Aliens versus Predator. 'Cause you must not drink and drive

As some of ppl above - this is a racing, not cruising sim.

But I also agree, that there could be 3 options for canreset (no / yes, without repair / yes and repair).

Serious racing servers will remain with canreset set to NO, the rest will be happy too.

Hmm, Ive actually won a couple of races and flipped afterwards, is that a bad thing? Ive even got a replay showing a crash after a rallycross race.

Personally, I have nothing against re-including the old reset option. That said, I understand what Scawen is trying to do by removing it.