Quote from Lotesdelere :

Remove the Shift+S, now Shift+P option.
Cars don't magically vanish from the track.
This is not realistic.

Great idea

Quote from boosterfire :

Actually, I don't think that even Need For Speed games would have an option to actually repair the car on reset. I don't really know why this has even be brought up. It's totally not realistic, so bad for cruising servers, and even worse for racing servers. I mean, you flipped the car; why would you have the right to continue with only that penalty? No way, sir, the car's dead, crawl your way back to pits at 10kph.

This change was made so every serious race server would have reset OFF.

I see two things here. Firstly a lot of people flaming a minority because it is a minority, which is pretty disgusting.

I also see a cruise server operator thinking it cannot run with reset off, which I just dont get. On your system I gather drivers own their cars.

In real life, when a boy racer ruins their car, provided they didnt kill anybody doing it everyone cheers.

So, why have reset on? Teach the little blighters a little responsibility for the first time in their lives .

Quote :

For some people patch X is the first upgrade since W and the first time they'll see the changes. You know, there *are* people who don't install test patches nor follow discussions on the test patch for

You'd think somebody making server software for LFS would keep a little further ahead of changes, especially when Scawen was asking the developers to give feedback and request the features they wanted

Although I stopped working on the CTRA because X test patches kept breaking it, I requested and received a lot of features that i'm now abusing. I have just 1 regret of something I didn't ask for *bangs head against wall* but it's a minor thing.

I think that was Sams point.

All the cruise/real driving stuff is basically a mod right?

I thought mods work within the confines of the game they are a mod of, I've never seen a game make changes to suit a specific mod before!?

Like people have said, LFS is a racing sim, changes, tweaks and improvements are made to make the racing experience better. The cruise servers (and other mods) have to adapt to LFS, not the other way round

huh, have I missed something? Does the car get repaired if you reset it on the servers that allow this?

Quote from Lotesdelere :

OK, next steps:
Etc, etc...

You're stretching it and taking it into absurdity and you (hopefully) know that.
LFS is a piece of software, doing whatever is possible to simulate racing by software.
Why is removing/changing some unrealistic feature always objected to by pointing out some other (allegedly) unrealistic feature in an often absurdistic way? Who knows what else will be removed/changed in the future?

Quote :

Remove the Shift+S, now Shift+P option.
Cars don't magically vanish from the track.
This is not realistic.

+1

I read like 3/4 of the thread so if it was pointed out after that then I am very sorry to repeat but:

Most of you ppl that criticise the old reset button (its your own fault that you flipped, you should not flip at the last lap while leading etc..) fergot one small issue that discredits all your "its real life sim deal with it " statements , and whjat is it ? .... BUGS.. what do i mean by that you ask ?

Well in real life i dont recall that hitting a metal barrier(spelling) makes you fly like you were a f-16 about to take off , or hitting a tyre or other wierd place (and there are lots of place like that on the tracks , example the last chicane on fe just before the finish line , if you hit the wall to fast you go off flying like a rocket) dosent make you fly and spinn at ridiculous speeds and variations.

So sure I am all for the "real life sim = no reset" BUT after they FIX all the ridiculous bugs that make you crash even thou you should not even get a big scratch after that type of bump/hit.

Dont get me wrong I love LFS and am in no way criticising the devs as its the best sim I ever played but please consider that sometimes due to bugs you have to take compromises between realism and common sense

this is a dubble post , but as the other thread has 3 pages and prolly wont be viewed by ppl that made their opinion on page 1 or 2 I'll repost it here also Sorry if thats a violation of any rules ...

Most of you ppl that criticise the old reset button (its your own fault that you flipped, you should not flip at the last lap while leading etc..) fergot one small issue that discredits all your "its real life sim deal with it " statements , and whjat is it ? .... BUGS.. what do i mean by that you ask ?

Well in real life i dont recall that hitting a metal barrier(spelling) makes you fly like you were a f-16 about to take off , or hitting a tyre or other wierd place (and there are lots of place like that on the tracks , example the last chicane on fe just before the finish line , if you hit the wall to fast you go off flying like a rocket) dosent make you fly and spinn at ridiculous speeds and variations.

So sure I am all for the "real life sim = no reset" BUT after they FIX all the ridiculous bugs that make you crash even thou you should not even get a big scratch after that type of bump/hit.

Dont get me wrong I love LFS and am in no way criticising the devs as its the best sim I ever played but please consider that sometimes due to bugs you have to take compromises between realism and common sense

Quote from Thill :

Well in real life i dont recall that hitting a metal barrier(spelling) makes you fly like you were a f-16 about to take off

And that's why those issues will be fixed in one of the upcoming patches for sure. New steps towards realism shouldn't be held back because of other known realism issues. Remember that this is a sim in development. So it should become more realistic, step by step. Personally I would like Scawen to prioritize on the collision detection for the new patch, but who knows what he will do first, it's up to him
People that have something against the changed resets are in for a tough time when the damage model will be improved. But at least you have a valid reason to object to it

Quote from Lotesdelere :

Remove the Shift+S, now Shift+P option.
Cars don't magically vanish from the track.
This is not realistic.

That would be great.

When someone presses the leave car button in qualifying, the driver would be seen to get out of the car and jump over a barrier (or the driver would just disappear). The car would be removed by marshalls (or disappear after 30 seconds).

The car should take 3 minutes (or longer if the server decides) to recover/be towed to the pits. In the race, it should be a matter of your race being over - no rejoin. Damage before leaving car should need to be fixed first, and that should take time - as should setup changes.

Quote from Lotesdelere :

OK, next steps:

Force people to wear a helmet while racing.
This is more realistic.
This will be controlled by web cam.

Turn the heater on even in summer because it's damn hot in a racing car.
More realistic.
This will be controlled by infra red sensors.

Disable chat.
You don't type while driving. Spectators can't even talk to drivers during a race.
This is not realistic.

Remove the Shift+S, now Shift+P option.
Cars don't magically vanish from the track.
This is not realistic.

Etc, etc...

I think my sarcas-o-meter exploded.

Point taken, Lotes.

Quote from Loltesdelere :

Disable chat.
You don't type while driving. Spectators can't even talk to drivers during a race.
This is not realistic.

Actually, I recall watching an Aussie series (Bathurst ftw \o/) and the commentator had a chat with several drivers, while they were driving the car. Never know, the next step could well be a single Q&A from a random spectator or whatever

Quote from Lotesdelere :

OK, next steps:

Force people to wear a helmet while racing.
This is more realistic.
This will be controlled by web cam.

What, you are not using helmet while racing? Well, me either, only sometimes to get than little bit more realism and here is quite hot when I'm racing, need lot of drink as I sweat a lot because of heat, quite realistic, but not quite as I still need that some g-forces so that after 5laps my muscles start to ache so that I need to get into shape, that is what I would like from sim

But I don't like to get hurt in case of accident, there is line I draw, also I don't like to spend insane amount of real money to sim, but rest should be as close to real world as possible.

Quote from Mike85 :

You are litterally defending Scawen and LFS because of a line of code that could be added and problem would be fixed.

Look at yourselves and think about it

Then you better add me to that list of supporters.

This is a racing SIM. In real life if some bozo hits you and flips you over then that's too bad, people will just have to start taking responsibilities for their own actions and start driving more carefully instead of acting like this is an arcade game.


For example: if in real life you get hit and flip (RIP my friend Cameron Goulette) there IS no reset button. You should be glad that Scawen allowed the reset in the first place seeing as how it is highly un-realistic to begin with... unless of course you'd like to code the crowd coming onto the track and helping you flip your back over like in rallies.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Actually, I recall watching an Aussie series (Bathurst ftw \o/) and the commentator had a chat with several drivers, while they were driving the car. Never know, the next step could well be a single Q&A from a random spectator or whatever

It was 1985 race in Lakeside where they also interviewed leader of race, so certainly it would be possible to have spectators chatting with drivers, but human nature stops this from happening, so those that are in spectate should not be heard by racers, only at pits that should be possible, when car is parked or something like that.
Voice communications with range surely would be quite good realism factor.

Well, always we can dream, but truth is that it will be only what Scawen & co likes and what they want from their sim, we can only enjoy from it and support them in creation of sim.

Quote from Mike85 :

Why dont you then ban mouse and keyboard users, because the wheel is more realistic?

Oh hush..

Everyone has the right to play LFS... I don't see your point.

*shrug*

Quote from joen :

And that's why those issues will be fixed in one of the upcoming patches for sure. New steps towards realism shouldn't be held back because of other known realism issues. Remember that this is a sim in development. So it should become more realistic, step by step. Personally I would like Scawen to prioritize on the collision detection for the new patch, but who knows what he will do first, it's up to him
People that have something against the changed resets are in for a tough time when the damage model will be improved. But at least you have a valid reason to object to it

sure thing and I totally agree that the developement should go forward not stay put in the same place , but what i suggest is that untill those patches fix those problems (sure hope they will sooner than later :P) just leave the 3 options for the server admin to decide . Later after they fix those silly crash places go ahead and remove the reset button alltogether for what i care , cause only then you can say "well its a racing sim so get over it as its more realistic".

But untill then just leave it as it is cause those kind of accidents are bound to happen and sooner than later , and i dont think any of the ppl that rush in here to criticise the reset option for now would be to thrilled to be catapulted into space at the last lap just because they hit a barrier at the wrong angle

Quote from Mike85 :

Because thats all they do. Agree on everything and defend Scawen and the game.

And all you do is piss on everything that you don't agree with. And when it becomes clear that most other people don't agree with you you start calling them fanboys who aren't able to form their own opinion. Because it couldn't possibly be that most people simply don't agree with you! Ofcourse not! Oh the thought!

Quote from Mike85 :

Why dont you then ban mouse and keyboard users, because the wheel is more realistic?

Removing keyboard and mouse support will exclude people who don't have a wheel (yet) from getting to know the game. If you read around the forums you will notice that sooner or later people stop by for advice on which wheel to get.
The same goes for auto clutch. Until the G25 arrived there were practically no affordable wheels with a clutch pedal. Removing auto clutch for the sake of realism would put people on the sideline. Changing the reset options does not exclude a certain group of people, it effects everybody. So it
's a totally different thing.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Actually, I recall watching an Aussie series (Bathurst ftw \o/) and the commentator had a chat with several drivers, while they were driving the car. Never know, the next step could well be a single Q&A from a random spectator or whatever

Meh, they try and do it under the SC and on formation laps in the BTCC. Or tried it at rockingham, I hope they have scrapped that stupidity for good.

Quote from bbman :

Yes, but they won't (well, some would)... Taking the old reset behaviour away is FORCING us to cope with the new system... Too big would be the convenience of not changing anything... Remember the big affair when Scawen changed the shortcuts for pitting and spectating? People got used to it and demanded it changed back just for their convenience...

Sorry to quote myself, some obviously don't bother reading... As I said before, people are too much into their own convenience to take a step into the right direction... People's reaction here perfectly justifies Scawen practically forcing the new system to be used...

I have to say. I do use both Racing and Cruise servers. The LTC one is the one I use for crusing and what ever racing takes my fancy tbh.

The reset used to be good. But I like it in a way now. Like on the Cruise server or a race server and you hit a barrier and find all yoru suspension is fecked. Hit reset and its all fine again. Its un fair yes. But it means my race can continue. I also like the fact people choose not to have it for this reason. You wouldnt have a magic reset button in life so why have it in a game?

Theres just my pov though.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

I rolled out of the lead on the last lap at Blackwood on the last turn, and ended up upside down within sight of the finishing line. Served me right for pushing too hard, and to your surprise it made me really happy to see LFS was coming up to scratch with the competition in terms of immersion, which it traditionally took a rather arcade attitude towards.

Quote from duke_toaster :

And making setup changes take time (especially in quali).

nK showed that everyone likes the idea but in practice it is just annoying.

-1

Quote from Mike85 :

I think this is all the effect of Scawen not having a clear idea of how stuff should work in the game.

And why did Scawen put something out that was there before? Its ridiculous. I dont get it.

I think a lot of people are missing the fact that Scawen didn't just forget to include non-repair resets, but that it was a deliberate move by the Devs to mean that the majority of servers would use the more realistic option, along with false starts and the likelihood of proper clutch simulation in Y. LFS is first and foremost an 'online racing simulator', not an 'online car simulator' of course in reality (rather than the ISI world) cars can both race and drift without magic tires so drifting can become a secondary activity made to fit on the race circuits (just like it does IRL). Cruising has nothing to do with racing or driving on race circuits so TBH you'd probably be better off looking for something like TDU if you think that being punished for crashing into things is unfair. TBH though most of the cruising servers I've popped into seem to be a load of idiots doing donuts round a car park with a rather unimaginative road layout consisting of red/white barriers IMO it looks silly and if I had a desire to do this kind of thing then I'd get TDU/NFS/midtown madness, but not GPL/RBR/Super Mario Kart or Tetris because they are not meant for cruising.

If LFS happens to be useful for something else that's great so long as the alternative activity doesn't hurt its primary activity.

Ok, so to the people who quoted back to my little essay on page two, i see what your saying, and yes i can agree with it, and i have now changed my mind about reset on serious races. If its a serious race, then you really cant flip it like that, i agree.

But i still think the old option should be avaliable for Cruise servers, Practice servers, and Mess around servers. Why would it be hard to do? It would make everyone happy.


Also, in a serious race, if you flip, your not f'ed completley. You can still manually flip the car.

I have an idea. You hit the reset button, but it resets you on the grass, where you flipped, in the same direction, BUT theres a 30 second time period holding you back before you go. Why the 30 seconds? Makes it more realistic, as to how in real life you CAN flip the car back over, but it takes time.

Just a thought?

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

But i still think the old option should be avaliable for Cruise servers, Practice servers, and Mess around servers. Why would it be hard to do? It would make everyone happy.

It's not hard to do. That is not the reason why it was removed. The reason is that Scawen was afraid that most of the servers would then be running the reset-nofix option instead of the full realistic option of not resetting at all. I think that is true. Sometimes you just have to shove people in the right direction, otherwise they will just take the easy way out.
LFS is a realistic simulation, people need to accept that.

True story:
When I first moved into my house there was a freak car accident that happened on an early monday morning. And this happened in my front yard.
These guys in a mustang, an 80's one, were obviuosly all f'ckd up and were hauling ass and flipped their car over. it landed totally upside down in the small drainage ditch in between my front yard and the street. the top of the car was smack in the middle of the ditch with the car parallel to the street.
I go outside after hearing the tire squeal, the silence, then the crash.
I didn't actually see the wreck, I heard it. So naturally I grab the phone and call 911. Well while I was explaining to the operator what I heard and what I saw, these guys, I think 6 of them crawl out from under the car(i don't know how) and flip the car over, jump back in and take off! I didn't know what to think and then I gotta explain THAT to the operator.
I'm not making this up. It really did happen.

SOOOOO The point could be taken that in a "realistic" illegal street race - which is a race nonetheless, if you eat it, a carload of your drunk buddies tagging along can help you flip your DAMAGED car back over and into the action.
And since LFS has PASSENGERS.....

But seriously, I think that in a LFS race if you flip over or crash that bad, that should be it. No reset. GO HOME.
And no offense, but I think that instead of complaining about the new options, maybe you ought to think of some sort of workaround?