@whoever mentioned 10 examples...

The point about 'noob', 'n00b', etc, I don't have to list. Just go to any popular server and wait.

Point 3: Again, go to a popular server and wait for a newly licensed racer to log in, say 'hi, I'm new to S2', he/she will be met with a barrage of 'go practice offline n00b' messages and if he/she does get out on track, they will be treated very very harshly

Point 5: The posts/debates about wheel only control.

@sully: Agreed. join dates mean nothing. I agree with Duke_toaster, I wish they could be removed

DK

Alot of the behaviour mentioned in this thread is even more proof of the theory linked to in my signature.

It's unfortunate, but it's something every online community faces.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

The point about 'noob', 'n00b', etc, I don't have to list. Just go to any popular server and wait.

Yes, there might be a few people who call others "noobs" frequently but you dont really want to say that the majority of drivers does that? Its certainly not as bad as you make it seem to be.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Point 3: Again, go to a popular server and wait for a newly licensed racer to log in, say 'hi, I'm new to S2', he/she will be met with a barrage of 'go practice offline n00b' messages and if he/she does get out on track, they will be treated very very harshly

Sorry, this is simply not true. On the contrary, if a new driver joins a server and states that he is new there most certainly will be drivers who watch him and give him advice on racing lines and braking points. I have seen that many times and also done it myself.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Point 5: The posts/debates about wheel only control.

Have you read them or only looked at the thread title? IF you read them you would know that there were more people in these threads who defended mouse and keyboard driving than people who wanted it to be banned.

Quote from joen :

Again, extremely exaggerated. The poor poor demoracers. It's getting tiresome now.

Example: If a demo racer comes on the forum complaining about the high amount of wreckers, it is a good advice to recommend getting a license.

Another example: If a demo racers comes on the forum saying he would like to drive more cars in LFS, it then is...right.

A challenge: as you say it happens everytime I challenge you to direct me to 10 occasions where this has happened and was totally uncalled for. If it happens that much it shouldn't be hard to do.

But constantly people are complaining about how demo is a

Quote :

CRASH, SMASH, DEMOLITION DERBY CRAZY DISRESPECTFUL REALM

When really it's not that bad. I played on s2 today and people complained about things like that at the stupidest times. Then when I went on demo people just made a few race laps, and me and another chap helped someone with their video card problems regarding LFS.

And. The day before I was given s2:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/6851/s2abusermx7.png


And I know I shouldn't bias all s2 users to being like this, but it's more prevalent than it's accounted for.

Speaking of which I gotta get an avatar real soon.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Yes, there might be a few people who call others "noobs" frequently but you dont really want to say that the majority of drivers does that? Its certainly not as bad as you make it seem to be.

One of the biggest problems here is that the people that do resort to language like this are the vocal minority. Emphasis on vocal.

The only thing that can change this behaviour is normal, well meaning players who don't normally engage in conversations going on to speak up and say "That's enough, I will not accept this kind of childish behaviour."

The level of maturity on a lot of public servers is putting people off of playing them, and that's a terrible shame. There is a job here for server admins as well, they too should not tolerate this behaviour. The lol-rofl internet attitude is really a terrible thing.

Quote from joen :

Again, extremely exaggerated. The poor poor demoracers. It's getting tiresome now.

Example: If a demo racer comes on the forum complaining about the high amount of wreckers, it is a good advice to recommend getting a license.

Another example: If a demo racers comes on the forum saying he would like to drive more cars in LFS, it then is...right.

A challenge: as you say it happens everytime I challenge you to direct me to 10 occasions where this has happened and was totally uncalled for. If it happens that much it shouldn't be hard to do.

Pfft.

I've experienced it, tell me otherwise. Check my post history.

Quote from Tigershark :

One of the biggest problems here is that the people that do resort to language like this are the vocal minority. Emphasis on vocal.

The only thing that can change this behaviour is normal, well meaning players who don't normally engage in conversations going on to speak up and say "That's enough, I will not accept this kind of childish behaviour."

The level of maturity on a lot of public servers is putting people off of playing them, and that's a terrible shame. There is a job here for server admins as well, they too should not tolerate this behaviour. The lol-rofl internet attitude is really a terrible thing.

It's not really a big problem, it's just annoying.

Oh and

Quote :

The only thing that can change this behaviour is normal, well meaning players who don't normally engage in conversations going on to speak up and say "That's enough, I will not accept this kind of childish behaviour."

Won't solve it.

What WILL solve it is:

Quote :

‏‏‏‏‏‏. . .

Get it? If we all shut up, maybe it will get quiet

It entirely depends when the slang "LOL"-"ROFL" is used,when used for humour within the group I feel its tolerated,but when to intimidate someone it's wrong,bahh humour can't kill

For the best of this,I think this thread should get closed before a forum war breaks out,we get the point by now,everyone who plays LFS is a jerk who call people "noobs" and LOL at people,get over it

Quote from Cr!t!calDrift :

Pfft.
I've experienced it, tell me otherwise. Check my post history.

Well, I asked DK to give 10 examples since he's saying it happens so often. He has a point to prove, so that does not mean I'm going to search for examples myself.

I feel DK is taking some bad experiences, putting them under a magnifying glass and claiming this is the way it goes all the time. Plus, exaggerating is one of his specialties.

Quote :

And. The day before I was given s2:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/6851/s2abusermx7.png

So you met an ****. Does this prove anything about the community in general? Everybody can go on telling about their own bad experience and how some guy in some race did something to them and wasn't nice, but it has nothing to do with being a community problem. There's idiots everywhere in real life, everywhere online, so they are in LFS too. Plus, on some server types I think you run into them more often, but I'm probably stepping on someone's toe again now.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Point 3: Again, go to a popular server and wait for a newly licensed racer to log in, say 'hi, I'm new to S2', he/she will be met with a barrage of 'go practice offline n00b' messages and if he/she does get out on track, they will be treated very very harshly

So, at this point they just say hi, don't get into the race yet and already getting the "go practice offline noob"? And the way you describe this, it happens like this all the time? That's weird because I have NEVER experienced this.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Hi, and I dunno if this is the right forum/section for this, but I have noticed a few things about the community that get under my skin (and I'm sure a lot of other members' skins)

They are:

1) (This is in /no/ way meant as an attack on the devs, they do a damn good job). Whenever a new patch or feature comes out, there is /always/ somebody whining 'but...why didn't they do it this way'. It is insulting to the devs. Put yourself in their position. You have just spent X amount of time developing a labour of love, only to have people who know nothing about game/program/sim/whatever design, to come along and start flaming you.

2) The use of the words 'noob', 'n00b', 'newbie' and related words as an insult (No offense to Niko/LFSn00b btw). Why do the people who were here earlier see the need to pick on the members with newer join dates. We all have an equal right to be here and give our opinion. OK, so people may not agree with it, but that is no reason to start flaming. On a related note, what /is/ the point of the flaming bannana (sp?) smiley?.

3) The insistance that the aformentioned 'noobs', 'n00bs' and 'newbies' should go play offline. As somebody (I forgot who) said in another thread. LFS is an online racing simulator. It has AI for single-player. I am willing to bet that if the experienced online racers suddenly lost their internet tomorrow and had to race offline for, say...a month, they'd change their tune and welcome people to the servers. After all, every demo racer is a potential S2 racer. And every online racer is potentially somebody you can have a great battle with

4) The constant bashing of demo racers. I just don't get WHY people (S2 licensed) see the need to flame/bash/criticise (sp?) demo racers. LFS is a racing simulator. I am not going to get involved in the quite franky, ugly, drift/grip war, but if people want to drift, they should be able to. It's like buying a box of chocolates and being told you can only open and eat them a certain way

5) The attitudes of some racers to mouse/keyboard racers. Not everyone is able to buy, or indeed, use a wheel. I know a friend in Ireland who wants to get into S2, but has no movement in his arms at all. At this point he could either:

a) Post here, or have somebody post here and get flamed/ridiculed
b) quietly go and buy S2, and get ridiculed/flamed in-game
c) Not bother and tell everyone how bad S2 is

See my point there?

7) The belief that if you have a blue flag, you MUST dive off the road/the belief that ANY contact is wrecking. These two really, really, really, irk me. A few days ago, I was on the Conedodgers UFR/XFR server at AS Cadet, I got loose coming onto the SF straight, spun into the grass, rebounded off the wall and caused somebody else to spin, and got 'what the f--k were you doing you f---g wrecker, learn to f-----g drive you w------r' Then later on after the race had been restarted, a racer was spamming 'BLUE FLAG! MOVE OVER! BLUE FLAG! MOVE OVER! BLUE FLAG! MOVE OVER! BLUE FLAG! MOVE OVER!' again and again. Wake up people...in the real world, a small tap isn't wrecking, and cussing like that wouldn't be tolerated. And how many times have you seen backmarkers throw themselves off the track to let the leaders through?

8) The belief that LFS /must/ be the most realistic simulator ever. Hint here: NKPro, Look how realistic that is, and look how that's turned out. There is a line between realism and fun, and the people who want LFS to be just like real life, let me paint you the following scenario...

It's 9pm, the kids are in bed, you have an hour before you're going to go to sleep. So you fire up LFS, input 50,000 bits of data needed to create your virtual online persona, and select your favourite server only to find you have to walk across the virtual paddock to your race trailer, which you do happily, as it's another step in realism. Just then the kids come downstairs wanting a drink and a bite to eat, so you go to type 'I'm AFK', but you can't, as chatting's been disabled due to it 'not being realistic'. So your virtual self stands there like a lemon for 5 minutes, then goes to the garage and gets in the FXR, goes through all the checks and starts the engine, only to find the door's shut, and once you get in the car, you can't get out, as it's 'not realistic'. So you stop the engine and force the car's door open, and open the garage door, only to find it drops on your character's foot, there is a wincing sound effect. You think nothing of it until you get back in the car, close the door, and try to accellerate (sp?) Nothing happens, the ignition's on, the car's in first, but it won't go. Because injury to drivers has been modelled 'because it happens in real life'. Frustrated. you go to log out, but are told 'You have to walk back to your motorhome to log out' as people don't want drivers suddenly vanishing as 'it's not realistic', so you do that, then you want to go to anther server, but you can't, as your characters are the same across all servers. So you finally log out and go to sleep.

I want /everyone/ who reads this to think long and hard about the points raised. It just really angers me that the community has gone downhill in the last 2-3 years

Oh i wish everybody were sensible like you man I would love the LFs community more than anything

cleaned up some posts from this thread. Lets not go silly please.

Quote from 11SuLLy11 :

For the best of this,I think this thread should get closed before a forum war breaks out,we get the point by now,everyone who plays LFS is a jerk who call people "noobs" and LOL at people,get over it

Quote from 11SuLLy11 :

It entirely depends when the slang "LOL"-"ROFL" is used,when used for humour within the group I feel its tolerated,but when to intimidate someone it's wrong,bahh humour can't kill

Quote from 11SuLLy11 :

Agree with alot of them points,but at the end of the day everyone is open to an opionion,one thing I don't like is if your not an "OLD TIMER" your not really respected,kinda bugs me

Rubbish. We will respect anyone who turns up with the right attitude and a degree of sense. You find simple concepts difficult to grasp, ask very very simple (noobish) questions, write like a 6 year old, and try to join in in discussions you are not mentally capable of adding to. In those situations, would YOU respect yourself? Then how can you expect several thousand other people to either?

Note: This post, and the accusations within, do not necessarily apply to the quoted person. The 'you' is a generic you.

@joen: Where exactly is exaggerating 'one of my specialties'? Name 10 examples? I can counter them

@tristan: That has just proven the point about attacking people.

DK

Quote from tristancliffe :

Rubbish. We will respect anyone who turns up with the right attitude and a degree of sense.

Should have stopped there, the rest of your post just goes to prove the point.

"Mentally capable"? Really uncalled for and not exactly setting a good example.

@Tigershark: It worries and alarms me that people on the forum have to resort to attacking each other in threads.

@mods/devs: Can we please remove join dates and post counts from the forum? They do nothing but cause strife

DK

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

@joen: Where exactly is exaggerating 'one of my specialties'?

You blow things out of proportion. If you don´t realise that yourself or don´t have any proof of the things you mention so often as you claim then there is nothing I can say that would be able to convince you really.
This thread is getting a bit silly imo. I guess some people are just overly sensitive.

@joen: Examples?

DK

It's not attacking, it's answer his question about why people (but he meant him) aren't respected. A few home truths. Sometimes, the truth hurts. But I'm not a liberal, so I don't mind telling people.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Rubbish. We will respect anyone who turns up with the right attitude and a degree of sense. You find simple concepts difficult to grasp, ask very very simple (noobish) questions, write like a 6 year old, and try to join in in discussions you are not mentally capable of adding to. In those situations, would YOU respect yourself? Then how can you expect several thousand other people to either?

Note: This post, and the accusations within, do not necessarily apply to the quoted person. The 'you' is a generic you.

LOL Tristian you should know now that sarcasm doesn't go down well with an international audience

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

@joen: Examples?

DK

Give some of examples to back up your claims too. I don't see what gives you the right to accuse everybody (therefore me) of doing certain things, without producing a shred of evidence, or even specific examples.

If I had my cynic hat on, I'd say this thread is pointless, useless, sensationalist, melodramatic and unnecessary.

@sinbad: If you have read through this thread, you would have seen eaxmples. I am no McCarthy.

DK

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

1) Fact of life, complaining about it isn't going to change it. Also, some of the criticisms are apt, even if blunt and timed wrongly.

2) 'Newbie' is not an insult, it's a politically correct way of calling someone a noob. There are much worse insults one can come up with to really insult someone. As annoying as it may be, not letting it get to you is the best way to fight it.

3) There are many, many cases when such a call is actually warranted. There's a difference in taking it easy ito brake points and insisting on driving in the middle of a pack when they can't keep the car on the road for a single lap, even if there's nobody else pressuring them.

4) Demo racer bashing has nothing to do with drifting, which is a case on its own regardless of licence status. Demo racers who can't be bothered to put in the effort to express themselves properly, and feel they are obliged to demand more content are justifiably flamed. Crying for new content and updates as a demo racer appears selfish because it's more for nothing, I care not for selfish, arrogant people.

5) I disagree, it may eventually turn into a flamefest but initially he will get constructive responses from the several knowledgeable people. I'd foresee that it would turn nasty when someone would make a comment how they were 'surprised' nobody's insulted anyone yet.

6??

7) Tough poo, tbh. No offence to ConeDodgers, but their servers are not ones one should base generalisations on. Those who spam blue flag will continue to do so until it's not permitted. They aren't going to 'see the light' because they don't want to. Go to another server where such is not tolerated.

8) Dude, srsly. Take a break, have a holiday, take a chill pill, take the dog for a walk w/e. Now you really are just whining.

The LFS community has not gone downhill. The community has grown (= more idiots around) and it has kept its intergrity admirably. Basing general consensus on actions of individuals you don't like is pointless (and by that I mean that it's human nature to take more notice of things we don't like than things that we agree with and take for granted). Instead of looking at how 'bad' the community is, look at how good it is. Free licences flying left right and centre, support given to the devs in patch testing, the addon programmers are still updating their software, UKCT has made a masssssssssssive contribution, yadda yadda etc etc.

It's people who question and undermine the community by posting about how bad the community is that really make it annoying sometimes. Oh, and, if this community was as bad as you make it look, I dare say this thread would look much worse than it is.

+1

Quote from joen :

I feel DK is taking some bad experiences, putting them under a magnifying glass and claiming this is the way it goes all the time. Plus, exaggerating is one of his specialties.

+1
:twocents:

ok this thread is now repeating itself, The points have been made and i cant see anything more productive to come from this thread. Time to Forclose on this thread.