Quote from birder :

The number of votes needed to ban and kick should be a server setting which should be a percentage of those on the server

/voteban 50
/votekick 30

or at least make the number needed a setting

/vote 10

that way its up to the server owner how its set

either way i hope someone comes up with an admin tool that allows us to view and edit the bans online or it could be a nightmare on a busy server like ours

Best solution I've seen so far.

+1!

I think Birders idea is brilliant idea... I'd implement that on my server if it was available.

The problem is most ppl don't see the offence, and most ppl vote based on the number of ppl that have voted.. not on behaviour... if a bunch of ppl vote... others will to just cause of group psychology.

I think kick/ban=yes/no should be separated, so host can allow kicking, but not banning... or as Birder mentioned, controlled banning. Too many ppl are banned just for mistakes, and thats wrong. Particularly if the track/car isn't used much such as AS2/fox.. there's usually only 2-3 servers that have that that have ppl in it. Most are empty... It does need to be fairer... The other option to counter group psychology in voting, is to allow a No vote, so some sanity can prevail.

No matter what you do, it will be abused, but even so, it should still be fair.

Ven

One argument also is:

the 8 vote ban leaves the majority principles of democracy:

THAT WAS THE GOOD THING ABOUT IT:

THE MAJORITY made the ban,

not a rather small MINORITY OF VOTERS,

like 8 out of 30 or so...

If You have a server with 30 people driving,

how must they know whom to ban and who not...


Its interesting how some people dont want to discuss

this very intersting topic, a major question about the

atmosphere in the game, which has become very

uncomunicational with "institutions" like wreckers

barricade, witch in my opinion only servers the

omnipotence-fantasies of those who invented it.

THOSE PEOPLE ESTABLISH THEIR PRIVATE LAW ON

INTERNATIONALLY PUBLIC GAME SERVES!!

THEY BAN WHOEVER THEY WANT FOR WHATEVER

REASON for lifetime - AND "SELL" their opinions to

other game-server-owners!

This is very weired - more weired than the subversiv

action of players "driving the wrong way" for whatever

reason.

If WE, the LFS-Community don´t keep up with respect

and dolerance for other ways of life, we will end up like

america.

With as everyday reality, for "HOMELAND-security"

instead of "who is my oposit", with the "axis of evil"

instead of a pluralism of cultures and people, as well

as religions.

Lets NOT have Eight Eggs Votes on, who ever does not

please the G8,

Dandy

Quote from Dandy Dust :

.....

Did you not understand why your other thread was closed?

Wreckers barricade works by people submitting replay evidence of someone wrecking, that information is then passed onto the server owners who have signed up to it and they decided what to do.

The way you try and get your point over is very, very bad and goes way off from what you are trying to say, so much so your original point is totally lost, I don’t know if this is because your English is not great or you are just a muppet, either way you will not get people listening to you.

I'd just like to take this time to remind people that you can go into User CP, then Buddy / Ignore lists and add any user to the ignore list so you don't have to see their posts.

+1 from me. I agree with the sentiment that it's better to have one more idiot than ban an honest racer. If someone is really a problem then surely things like the wrecker barricade could deal with it?

TBH, the people I want to ban the most are people who spam the ban button and cry over chat after an accident.

What is unclear?

There is no justice when there is no law, just executors
of their own powers:

(Thats why I say: In LFS-Land as well as in Iraq.)

Selfdeclarde prosecuters, judges and executoneres:

This is the opposit of what is intended, if at all:

Justice after a LAW based on rules, with the possiblities

of a court and so on.

SEE: We are 700n Drivers on the Servers at a time:

This should work like an Inuit (a.k.a. Eskimo) society,
with people talking to each other instead of inventing
prisons: We dont need that at all - this is just a brutal
illusion. Small comunities should rather sort their problems out by the means of the word, not of the sword!
If this is not possible at this level, good bye mankind!

Offending my Englisch reveales the level of Your mind,

Dandy

Quote from Dandy Dust :

If WE, the LFS-Community don´t keep up with respect
and dolerance for other ways of life, we will end up like
america.

Please continue......
I fail to see your theory.

Quote from Dandy Dust :

What is unclear?

There is no justice when there is no law, just executors
of their own powers:

(Thats why I say: In LFS-Land as well as in Iraq.)

Selfdeclarde prosecuters, judges and executoneres:

This is the opposit of what is intended, if at all:

Justice after a LAW based on rules, with the possiblities

of a court and so on.

SEE: We are 700n Drivers on the Servers at a time:

This should work like an Inuit (a.k.a. Eskimo) society,
with people talking to each other instead of inventing
prisons: We dont need that at all - this is just a brutal
illusion. Small comunities should rather sort their problems out by the means of the word, not of the sword!
If this is not possible at this level, good bye mankind!

Offending my Englisch reveales the level of Your mind,

Dandy

why u always talk about politics?

this is a simulation of racing and this topic is all about banning system only,
i can agree with you in some parts of your words but nevertheless thats OFFTOPIC!

if u want to be the master guru here go and find some hippies that follow your preaches but
HERE we talk about the banning system so please be
ONTOPIC (without any politics!) or Shut Up Really!

Who or what exactly do YOU THINK You are, moondings?!

I do compare the wreckers-barricade guys with the
bulldogs we send into other countries as an example
for this principle:

Fighting for peace is like ****ing for virginity!

And I exaclty argue about topics (like banning in a toy game) the way I decide to argue and nobody tells me
to shut up.

With best regards to the moon, Dandy

PS: (edit) No that I see the ***-Stars in my writing a story comes to my mind
that I lived through: I went to a local gamers-shop here in vienna and I was offered
the same game twice in englisch language: The one was the European, the other the
U.S.-Version.
So I asked the guy, why there are two versions if they are both in English...?
The salesman anwered me: In the European Version there is no violance allowed,
in the american no s.e.x.-scenes !

Quote from Dandy Dust :

And I exaclty argue about topics (like banning in a toy game) the way I decide to argue and nobody tells me
to shut up.

Actually it's the forum mods who decide the way you/we argue and if you keep insisting on going off topic and bring in ridicules comparisons then the thread will be closed....again.

If you want to discuss this issue then talk about the issue, the more you go off on your self righteous rants the less the real issue gets talked about, the less people will listen to you and the less possibility of something being done about it.

trouble is you have servers with 45 ppl joined but only 32 can race there for the 13 ppl who cant get on the track because of the "race is full" message are going to vote/kick who ever comes up just to get on track.

Quote from Dandy Dust :

Who or what exactly do YOU THINK You are, moondings?!

And you are? Oh i forgot, the one that made an absurd example by starting vote kick/bans against innocent people. In this respect, we only have to worry about the lowered number of votes if people like you are on the server who either do not care about what really happend or just to create and example for their personal enjoyment.

What you do not understand is that the way you argue is just poor nonsense. And before you do that you should at least check your sources more carefully. Look here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=8930

Its been clearly said that there is an investigation before a punishment is justified.

And the "law" can be reviewed here: http://www.lfs.net/?page=agreement

Quote :

he is saying, what if a group of 8 friends got together and just went around to different servers banning everyone..

This used to happen with the 50%+ system too, not on full servers but it happened.

Also, very few people are in a position to accurately vote or not, usually it is based on text chat area rather than the track. People who are 'more familiar' with the vote ban system use this to their advantage.

The net result of enabling vote banning on a server, is that innoccent parties are banned in around 40% of cases anyway.

Quote from boosterfire :

just to add a bit to my argument. Let's say that there are 40 people present on a said server. Somebody commits an act that "could" get him banned, but it's hard to tell; people have to choose what they want to do with it. There are 40 people on the server, 21 vote against ban, 19 vote for it. There you go, banned, the system is flawed. I don't care whatever other people will say, the fact remains that this system is wrong, it doesn't take in consideration what a majority will say.

Well, I do not think that all the people on a particular server need to vote to kick/ban someone simply because not everyone can see the incident that triggered the vote in the first place. How could I vote to ban/kick someone when I was driving on the other side of the track?

The problem with the 8 person ban (which could also apply to any number if the majority of the people on the server are such) is that people are so annoyed by wreckers/juveniles/insert_person_who_ruined_your_race_here that they vote yes to any votekick or voteban that pops up on their screen because they think that person must be a wrecker, ect. In actuality, some of the worst, most disrespectful racers use the tactic of **immediately** starting a votekick/voteban on the person they have just wrecked/crashed/shown_no_respect_for_their_race so as to avoid having a vote against themselves or because, being immature and prone to irrational anger, they can't believe that person blocked their ub3r l33t race by driving on the racing line.

If we can't get the word out to the good, respectful (majority) racers of the LFS community to ONLY vote for ban/kick if they have *firsthand* knowledge that said person deserves this kick/ban, then the more savy of the race ruiners will continue to cause the racers that you want on the server to be banned - leaving a higher percentage of idiots on that server going forward.

This exact thing happened to me last night on ConeDodgers GTR server (43 slot server). I was in the racing line on a straight hugging the curb, not swerving when a FZR comes along side my FXR and proceeds to try to set up for the long right T3 on AS NAT by getting all the way to the left - hitting my car passenger door and forcing both our cars into the sandtrap. I had time only for "WTF?" (voteban starts); "I didn't hit him" (voteban mid-way); "He hit me" (voteban succeeds, I drop). I'm a fast typer, the whole thing from wreck to ban was less than 10 seconds and there were maybe 2 cars that could have witnessed the crash. But, because the disrespectful wrecker was the 1st to start the vote, I got the boot.

Server admins, I don't envy you... its now a fine line between wreckers who cant be voted off and wreckers who vote off all your respectful racers with ever incident. Hopefully, we can get the word out.

Quote from 12ozJesus :

This exact thing happened to me last night on ConeDodgers GTR server (43 slot server). I was in the racing line on a straight hugging the curb, not swerving when a FZR comes along side my FXR and proceeds to try to set up for the long right T3 on AS NAT by getting all the way to the left - hitting my car passenger door and forcing both our cars into the sandtrap. I had time only for "WTF?" (voteban starts); "I didn't hit him" (voteban mid-way); "He hit me" (voteban succeeds, I drop). I'm a fast typer, the whole thing from wreck to ban was less than 10 seconds and there were maybe 2 cars that could have witnessed the crash. But, because the disrespectful wrecker was the 1st to start the vote, I got the boot.

Server admins, I don't envy you... its now a fine line between wreckers who cant be voted off and wreckers who vote off all your respectful racers with ever incident. Hopefully, we can get the word out.

Conedodgers are 47 slot with 5 reserved for admins, i must say that since X both CD1 and CD3 have been full and the ban happy racers have had a field day, sorry but not a lot we can do

You can't unban people as admin? Perhaps look for patterns, i.e. leave ban permanent if said player tends to get banned every other day (may be for real cause) vs second chance for those screwed by rogue banners.

Hi.....

Quote from Dandy Dust :

.....This should work like an Inuit (a.k.a. Eskimo) society, with people talking to each other instead of inventing prisons: We dont need that at all - this is just a brutal illusion. Small comunities should rather sort their problems out by the means of the word, not of the sword! If this is not possible at this level, good bye mankind!.....

Sorry, but I simply had to laugh at this one.....

I've got a few replays where you show how 'Inuit-Like' you behave yourself

CU, Sebastian

PS: About the topic - The current system might not be the ideal one, but I think its a pretty good solution

Guys this is all well in theory - why don't you wait until you need to kick someone and see how the 8 vote thing goes?

Last night I was on the final lap of a 20 minute race, fighting for position, when someone decided to join the race and practice his drifting right infront of us for the entire lap. I kid you not, he was just ignoring the fact that we were trying to race, ignored the blue flags, and just kept unpredictably and violently throwing his car around the track. Then after that he was a complete and utter jerk about it. He just gave me abuse like "stfu" "cry more" and saying stuff like my race wasn't important because I was in 15th position (out of 32 mind you). Why would I spend 20 minutes in one race only to have it ruined by some self centred drifter on the final lap??

Long story short.. I voted to kick him, and explained why. Even still, it took quite a while for people to vote. It was actually only when he kept abusing me and saying those things that people realised he was a tool and then kicked him. He rejoined and was quickly vote-banned by someone else.

If it were the 50% rule he'd have gotten away with it simple because many people ignore votes, some people are afk, and some people don't like to get involved.

Another option would be to have "Yote yes" and "vote no". Each yes vote is +1, and each no vote is -1. With something like 8 required to succeed. We simply need to ability for people to object to a vote, in order to avoid situations where groups of mates abuse the system.

Hi.....

Quote from Burnzoire :

If it were the 50% rule he'd have gotten away with it simple because many people ignore votes, some people are afk, and some people don't like to get involved.

I only vote when I know (usually by being an eyewitness) why someone wants the other driver kicked or banned and rarely (very, very rarely) ever start a vote myself.
It's not that I 'ignore votes' or 'don't like to get involved', it's just that I feel the responsibility to use my 'voice' in a fair and reasonable manner and try to use it accordingly.

But I am aware that the standards for voting behaviour vary very much from racer to racer

CU, Sebastian

so let's say two exactly identical incidents, one happens to me, the other to you. The incident is bad enough to make you vote to kick the offender off the server... but you wouldn't vote for my incident?

Nope.....read what I wrote.....

If I saw your incident I would vote (.....and for my incident I probably would not even start a vote).

To put it simple: I only vote when I know it is justified!



CU, Sebastian

Quote from Dandy Dust :

One argument also is:

the 8 vote ban leaves the majority principles of democracy:

THAT WAS THE GOOD THING ABOUT IT:

THE MAJORITY made the ban,

not a rather small MINORITY OF VOTERS,

like 8 out of 30 or so...

If You have a server with 30 people driving,

how must they know whom to ban and who not...


Its interesting how some people dont want to discuss

this very intersting topic, a major question about the

atmosphere in the game, which has become very

uncomunicational with "institutions" like wreckers

barricade, witch in my opinion only servers the

omnipotence-fantasies of those who invented it.

THOSE PEOPLE ESTABLISH THEIR PRIVATE LAW ON

INTERNATIONALLY PUBLIC GAME SERVES!!

THEY BAN WHOEVER THEY WANT FOR WHATEVER

REASON for lifetime - AND "SELL" their opinions to

other game-server-owners!

This is very weired - more weired than the subversiv

action of players "driving the wrong way" for whatever

reason.

If WE, the LFS-Community don´t keep up with respect

and dolerance for other ways of life, we will end up like

america.

With as everyday reality, for "HOMELAND-security"

instead of "who is my oposit", with the "axis of evil"

instead of a pluralism of cultures and people, as well

as religions.

Lets NOT have Eight Eggs Votes on, who ever does not

please the G8,

Dandy

Bold post brother, bold post!

Id have to say I agree with him regarding Wrecker Barricade servers but I wont go into detail on the subject because it will get me blacklisted (thats the beauty of free speech, its a myth )

Back on topic:
I think the 8 people system works fine as it is now, I've not encountered a problem with it yet and the idea of tribes of people going round to ban people is silly.