Currently suspension will get damaged, but never to the point that it can't be fixed. Engines can get damaged, but never to the point that they won't start or run. Will the damage model ever get to the point that hitting a wall will kill the engine? Will we ever see stalls from people who pop the clutch off the line? Will we ever see an engine grenade after someone downshifts at 9KRPM? Will we ever see wheels flying off the cars or tie rods breaking to the point that the car is undriveable?

Everyone complains about wreckers and T1 smashers. If the damage model were more realistic the wreckers would never make it past turn one and the problem would solve itself. People would be less likely to drive over their heads or try to push through traffic if they knew that wrecking meant they'd have to sit on the side of the track until the next race starts.

I think we will.

















EVENTUALLY

I'm sure we will. If not during S2, then in S3.

Do you consider being stuck in the gravel as sortof irrepairable damage?

(though it's a matter of the setup, there ARE setups you can even get out with XRR and other cars )

Quote from Messiah :

Do you consider being stuck in the gravel as sortof irrepairable damage?

(though it's a matter of the setup, there ARE setups you can even get out with XRR and other cars )

That's fine. If you can drive the car out of the gravel then you should be allowed to keep racing. However; when someone plows into the wall at 120, then backs up and keeps racing, THAT is the problem. I would like to see a very realistic and very unforgiving damage model. The closest thing to perfect I can think of is the old Papyrus games. You hit the wall in one of their sims and it's game over.

As long as people can drive into walls, crash into the people in front of them, jump over curbs, etc. and drive away, there will be wreckers in the game.

the damage model (in terms of irapairably damage) should be more like GTR but keeping the best bits of the LFS system.

We also need windows that smash like the toca series, headlights that smash and stop working and wheels that eventually drive on rims once you have completely worn your tyres away.

That stuff would be cool, but way lower priority IMO than just getting engine and suspension damage working properly. I don't plan on ever breaking my windshield, running my tires down to nubs, breaking out my headlights, etc.

I just want to make sure that when someone tries to outbrake me and hits the wall, that person is properly punished for it (by having his car no longer function).

Quote from snewham :

We also need windows that smash like the toca series, headlights that smash and stop working and wheels that eventually drive on rims once you have completely worn your tyres away.

Uhm, this already happens when you've popped your tyres...

You can actually kill the engine completely in LFS. There are two ways:

1) Run out of fuel

2) Stick it in first gear towards the end of the longest straight and keep the throttle floored

But in reality there are a dozen ways to kill the engine which LFS does not model. Any time there is less power being produced by the engine than what's required to move the car, the engine should die. If I get in a spin and i'm sliding backwards with the car in a forward gear, the engine should die. Pop the clutch with the brake on, the engine should die. Come to a stop with the car in gear and the clutch engaged, the engine should die.

The clutch is basically the only thing separating the engine from the tires, but it doesn't act that way in the game. I'm not exactly sure how they model the clutch, but I'm guessing that in order to have an auto-clutch some things had to be compromised.

Edit: Personally, i'd like to see all of the "normal" car functions modeled. Even though it's a game about racing it could easily be used for drivers education type stuff. It wouldn't be too hard to build blinkers, a headlight switch, a hazard switch, ignition key, etc. If the game would model the systems correctly (and we had a few city blocks to tool around in) this game could easily be used to teach a person how to drive.

...so basically you're talking about stalling? that's not really engine damage now is it.

No, it's not. But the point still stands. LFS is one of the most realistic sims out there, yet it doesn't model this basic operation.

I'm not even sure how we got on this subject, to be honest.

Like the idea.
It also would just help to remove the reset button, as it´s not real at all, too. If you lay on you car roof in real, you are out of race.
Another thing is the suspension stuff. Sometimes if you crash into a wall with 10km/h, you damage your suspension, and later, you crash into the same wall with 70km/h and nothing happens to it.
And then, its not real that in pits the car gets fixed like that, There should be damages you should have to drive with the whole race, as physical deformations. If the wheel is flying in the air or standing 90° wrong, this shouldn´t be repaired, you should have to end your race ... .
But the question is, how much simulation we need or want ?
I mean, i guess this is really frustrating, if any wrecker ist destroying your race (let´s say longrun) and you go to box and can´t keep driving.
And on the other side, i think the most lfs drivers aren´t ready for this. On quite every public server in the first corner they are crashing and want to restart again and again.
bd

Quote from Cue-Ball :

Edit: Personally, i'd like to see all of the "normal" car functions modeled. Even though it's a game about racing it could easily be used for drivers education type stuff. It wouldn't be too hard to build blinkers, a headlight switch, a hazard switch, ignition key, etc. If the game would model the systems correctly (and we had a few city blocks to tool around in) this game could easily be used to teach a person how to drive.

There are already blinkers switches (7,8,9), a headlight switch and a ignition switch (i). But there is no key to switch the headlight permanently on as far as I know.
The engine stuff would be nice, but you would have to use a clutch pedal with some kind of Force Feedback effect, so you can feel where the "drag point" is. I have no idea how to translate that correctly, but I hope you get the point.

You may not realise that originally S2 wasn't planned to have any damage model at all, suspension damage was seen as something relatively easy to implement whilst having a large impact on the way people drive.
No doubt we will get a very extensive damage model in the future, most likely with S3.

btw imo there will always be wreckers, irrepairable damage will just be a new toy.

Quote from BioFreak :

There are already blinkers switches (7,8,9), a headlight switch and a ignition switch (i). But there is no key to switch the headlight permanently on as far as I know.
The engine stuff would be nice, but you would have to use a clutch pedal with some kind of Force Feedback effect, so you can feel where the "drag point" is. I have no idea how to translate that correctly, but I hope you get the point.

Or 'bite point' for UK-ers.

Quote from BioFreak :

There are already blinkers switches (7,8,9), a headlight switch and a ignition switch (i). But there is no key to switch the headlight permanently on as far as I know.
The engine stuff would be nice, but you would have to use a clutch pedal with some kind of Force Feedback effect, so you can feel where the "drag point" is. I have no idea how to translate that correctly, but I hope you get the point.

While that would be nice, i don't think it's really "necessary". There are plenty of other games on the market that support a clutch pedal and they seem to work just fine. Even games from the 80's handled this correctly. Even without feeling the clutch grab, you can still do a pretty good approximation of a good start. But not having the clutch work like it does in real life not only throws off the realism factor, but it makes the car not do things that it should (like stall the engine).

That said, I still think this is the best, most fun racing sim on the market and one of the very few that has been worth the money I paid for it.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

That's fine. If you can drive the car out of the gravel then you should be allowed to keep racing. However; when someone plows into the wall at 120, then backs up and keeps racing, THAT is the problem. I would like to see a very realistic and very unforgiving damage model.

Like RBR on realistic damage.. That is unforgiving and very fun.

I am totally for engine stalls, BUT i don't have 3 pedals, and i am sure that 90% of people don't have it too.. so..
As for total damage, i am totally for it!! I want it as realistic as it can get! Run into wall, and you are done, go spectate, I AM SURE, that it would cause less number of wreckers..
That's the whole point of this game, if you don't like that, go play arcade games..
I am so thankfull for the Autocross, and possibility to crete custom layouts.. it is so much fun.. I made a local Karting track, and i practice on it with a MRT, it is so great.. Also, i am practicing parking backwards, and other driving licence stuff, and it really helps.. This game is an exellent driving helper..!!