Hi all! I've been driving the BF1 a lot tonight round BL GP and couldn't help notice that the speed it goes through the corners is pretty much the same if not the same exact grip as the FOX and FO8. I mean, its an F1 car, it should be able to corner much faster than a GP2/F3000 based car and definitely more grip than a Formula Renault/F3 based car. Just some thoughts. I understand that the downforce physics of LFS is still in its early stages and we could see in the future a great improvement in all the purpose-built race cars but I think that at least, give the BF1 more grip for now. Just a thought.
BF1 needs more grip
Are you certain an F1 car should have more grip than a F3000/GP2 car? I'm not saying you're wrong, just wondering...
even then, doesn't the BF1 have traction control?
The corners on blackwood in F1 terms are mostly slow and medium speed corners, and which the difference between these machines are not really great.
Also remember that F1 tires have grooves that cut the contact patch area almost in half. The FOX and FO8 have slicks that should give better low-speed grip.
I think the BF1 currently has plenty of grip. You can get 2.0gs in low-speed corners and up to 5gs in fast corners.
Edit: I checked some data again and these lateral accel numbers seem about perfect.
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I think the BF1 currently has plenty of grip. You can get 2.0gs in low-speed corners and up to 5gs in fast corners.
Edit: I checked some data again and these lateral accel numbers seem about perfect.
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Lack of grip doesn't only count BF1... just wait for the patch Y which hopefully addresses longitudinal grip issue.
Have you looked at and compared the outputs of the G-meter?
If not, you should open LFS and do an experiment where you compare the WR's of the FOX, FO8 and BF1.
Also, keep the circle of traction in mind - the BF1 accelerates a lot faster than the FOX and the FO8.
Longitudinal grip issue? What do you mean? If anything, there is going to be even less grip once a spinning tyre doesn't give as much grip anymore...
Comparison of the car speed, lateral G and logitudinal G forces for the SO4 WRs of the BF1 and FO8 in LRA 0.4. Looks pretty close to me.
I remember clearly from F1 montecarlo 2006 GP that one of the Italian tv commentators, the one that usually speaks about technical things, said that F3 cars had faster top speeds at apexes then F1 cars.
So to me fv8 speed through the corners does not seems that wrong, taking into account that F3 cars are lighter then F3000/F. Renault 3.5 cars like the Fv8.
So to me fv8 speed through the corners does not seems that wrong, taking into account that F3 cars are lighter then F3000/F. Renault 3.5 cars like the Fv8.
Should we really look at the speeds during cornering in order to determine whether the bf1 needs more grip? I'm absolutely no expert on such things, but I don't think so. Afaik, formula 1 cars pull a maximum of 4-5 lateral g during cornering, which corresponds with the data posted by amp88. So therefore it seems to me that the grip of the BF1 is pretty much spot on.
And seeing that the bf1 pulls up to 1g more than the fo8, yet both have the same cornering speed, would imho point to the fact that the line and the steering inputs of the fo8 must be smoother. Which in turn means, that the bf1 could be driven faster through the turns, at least theoretically. Correct?
And seeing that the bf1 pulls up to 1g more than the fo8, yet both have the same cornering speed, would imho point to the fact that the line and the steering inputs of the fo8 must be smoother. Which in turn means, that the bf1 could be driven faster through the turns, at least theoretically. Correct?
Isn't it obvious that there is something wrong with something, longitudinal grip could be most likely target. What explains the flatout starts then? Not sure does even Scawen know where is the problem because the issue is still there. I've tried to read those long-ass posts by Todd but I've always sucked at maths/physics so basicly I have no clue about the theoretical side.
Haven't Todd many times addressed that tyre curvers are pretty close to what they should be but it still can't stay like this forever, that fundamental "icy" feeling that still didn't go anywhere after April patch, if you know what I mean, that in extreme/on the limit situations you always feel that the tyres are simply not sticking to the road.Maybe because a car on the limit should feel as if its floating around? I dunno 
What I meant was, the OP thinks that the BF1 doesn't have enough grip. Now I know that the longitudinal grip has issues because it doesn't lose enough grip on heavily spinning tyres, which is the reason flatout starts work so good. However, once the longitudinal grip is fixed, it means there will be less grip rather than more, so I just don't see how the grip on acceleration has anything to do with this topic?
What I meant was, the OP thinks that the BF1 doesn't have enough grip. Now I know that the longitudinal grip has issues because it doesn't lose enough grip on heavily spinning tyres, which is the reason flatout starts work so good. However, once the longitudinal grip is fixed, it means there will be less grip rather than more, so I just don't see how the grip on acceleration has anything to do with this topic?
Not at all pretty close. You see that the maximum absolute value of lateral G-forces the BF1 can do on that track is about 4.7-4.8 in T1. The FO8 does a whole 1 G less there, and tops out at about 3.8. Also, not to sound like an idiot here, but the track you chose is a street circuit. It's got tight corners, very varying track width.
This is not where you would expect to see the difference between a Formula 1 car and a Formula 3000. Of course these two cars can negotiate a tight 90 degree corner or a hairpin at the same speed. They're both ultra lightweight, both have super sticky tyres and at that speed, the aerodynamics of the car are less important. Also, the Formula 3000 driver has a better chance of tucking the car into the corner at the right speed, because he wont be braking from nearly the same kind of speed as the Formula 1 driver.
If you want to do a proper comparison, you should do it at Kyoto Grand Prix or Westhill - I think you would see the difference there.
And people, don't forget that a Formula 1 car is heavily reliant on aerodynamic grip and speed. The mechanical grip in an F1 car is most likely the same or even less than an F3000 car. It is in the fast corners you will see the difference - that's where all those countless hours of aero development will show.
Remember that the BF1 has a huge wheelbase so isn't going to be terribly nimble around slow, tight corners, take it to somewhere like Westhill and Aston and it will then come into its own.
Remember that the F1 tires are physically bigger so probably still have a larger contact area and will be using a different compound, which seeing as it should be at the fore front of technology one would assume is softer.
Remember that the F1 tires are physically bigger so probably still have a larger contact area and will be using a different compound, which seeing as it should be at the fore front of technology one would assume is softer.
It's not softer no, at least not in LFS, and I doubt it is in real life.
In LFS, the FO8 and the BF1 share the same compounds, the R2, R3 and R4.
The FOX has the softer compounds, R1, R2 and R3.
Basically, less acceleration (be it lateral or longitudinal) means less wear, so that's why the slower cars generally run softer compounds.
If you put R2s on the BF1, they wont last for much longer than 4-5 laps, if not less. R2s on the FO8 however, will last just a couple of laps longer, even though it's the same compound.
Lads, I think I made a big 
of myself. The GP2 car has 600 HP, not the 450 I originally thought it had + F1 spec tyres. Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up . However, the FO8 has ONLY 450 HP while the BF1 has a massive 720 so thats nearly a 300 HP difference which clearly shows down the straights. From what I understand, F1 cars are waay ahead of everything else, thats what makes them so special. I guess there will be some physics updates in patch Y so I'll wait and see what the devs have in store for us .
of myself. The GP2 car has 600 HP, not the 450 I originally thought it had + F1 spec tyres. Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up . However, the FO8 has ONLY 450 HP while the BF1 has a massive 720 so thats nearly a 300 HP difference which clearly shows down the straights. From what I understand, F1 cars are waay ahead of everything else, thats what makes them so special. I guess there will be some physics updates in patch Y so I'll wait and see what the devs have in store for us .Fundamentally, a car on the limit IS floating around, especially street cars. In essense, your tires are constantly slipping to some degree whether you realize it or not, even IRL. Generally it's not enough to feel or notice. But when you push the car, it slips notably...
Hence the term "slip ratio".
As the slip ratio increases, from my limited understanding the part of the tire that slips moves from the back to the front of the contact patch as the ratio increases, until the entire contact patch is in slip to some degree. LFS's lateral grip is extremely accurate...
That "icy" feeling is just a result of proper lateral slip curve behaviour, and it may seem alarming if one is accustomed to the disgustingly feeble and dreadfully silly 85 degree cliffs (i.e. excuses for slip curve data) that are fed into certain other poor attempts at tire simulation. The resultant trolly tracks feeling isn't exactly something I would seek after!
cool, that would be mad... speshly for GTR racing...
Give me a break... I've done a full 30 lap race at WE1 in the BF1 on a single set of R2's. I've also done a 32 lap race at WE1R in the FO8 on a single set of R2's. If you can't get R2's to last, you're doing something very wrong.
Lol, was posting the same!
Wednesday i have done for the italian championship a 38 laps race ad WE1 with Fv8 and i did it with R2 tyres (and 90% of other racers too), and those run very well, probably i could have done about 10 laps more with the same set too without problems. (and we were not going slow, fastest lap on race was 1.21.13, and the polesitter during qualifications with hotlaps took WR...).
So you have something really wrong in your setup
:nol2:
GP2 runs full slicks.
Yeh - the FO8 is an older F3000 car or similar, 3 litre (Judd?) V8.
CCWS has ground effect and a few years back had a couple of hundred more horses but not has similarish levels to F1, but then again the cars are heavier.
IRL can get high speeds on the big ovals, but that's a moot point as the road course cars are similar to the short oval cars
Though I think this rather shows the shortcomings of the current tyre/wear model. I don't think the softest available compound for a car should last entire races, yet alone without losing performance once they're worn out. And once we get different track temperatures, we might one day even see R4s getting used
Westhill has long straights, which allows the tyres to cool down alot
Anyway, I guess I was wrong about the lap count then - that doesn't really matter though. What I was trying to point out was the difference in tyre wear between the BF1 and the FO8, not how many laps you should do in your average race.
It depends on track temperature.
With the actual track temperature (unknown value) R2 is the softer usable r3 the harder usable (r4 is useless)
When we will have temperature changes we will use different compounds, i dont see why R2 should not last one hour in real life in certain tracks, on F1 races too they have one compound softer and one harder, and until 2006 they could choose to race with the softer for the entire race distance.
Obviously you have to take care of your tyres, you cant drift into corners and hope to finish the race...
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BF1 needs more grip
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