Err... Ummm... ahem.

/me runs

Quote from Electrik Kar :

It would be nice if you could teach the AI's to 'talk', so after 300 conversations or thereabouts, they'd become reasonably articulate and chatty. Of course, new AI's should naturally drive very badly and make strange unintelligible sounds, like this... (see pic).

nah that would be too complicated

itd be just fine if the ais were a bunch of elizas

Quote from deggis :

Global combo balancing system

by autobanning every lfsw account with more than 100 laps on as nat ? i love the idea

Quote from Electrik Kar :

I had 10 minutes to spare...

thx that one totally made my day

Quote from Linus27 :

Plus, nobody really run LX4/LX6 races so I need working AI to get any play out of LFS.

what lfs needs is way more dysfunctional mutiplayer incompatible patches
32 car lrf grids *dreams*

Dreams? we had it in Patch W4x Beta Testing, and yet now it's all gone :X

I'd like to see some sliders so that I could tweak the various attributes of the AI.
Aggressiveness
Skill
How much they like/dislike you (for those Senna vs Prost moments)

Option to disable 'AI repair' would be cool, and also giving them the 'skills' to recover from the grass, rather than spin around and around and around and around.

I don't see AI improvements too usefull but maybe it would be possible to make working Pace Car for starts etc . in multiplayer with new AI.

The AI needs to be improved at some point. They should be able to use the ames features (pit stops etc). The game offers the possibility of having AI opponents, so they should be useable.

And we may live in the time of the www, but yet not everybody can use the multiplayer because of maybe living not in a DSL (or whatever) area. I think those people would like to have some decent AI.

Quote :

There should be a lot more important stuff than AI on the to do list. Too bad it doesn't seem like that...

Well there has been, and over the past 3 years the a.i. has been neglected for other priorities; improvements in other areas. I'm happy that the a.i. have finally come up for some treatment.

I agree with heeley

So, for those of you who've tried other sims, which one has (or ones have) the best AI so far, in your opinion?

I like to race online WITH the AI and a few friends. The AI makes thing more interesting for us. We like longer races than the typical 5 lap AS GTR races that are prevalent online.

But we haven't been able to do this since GPL. (LFS online = AS Nat GTR no wind sunny = GPL online = monza no damage 10 laps everyone pile into the Lotus rofflemo)

I am really looking forward to the AI being worked on.

I usually can't be bothered with the stress of racing online all the time. So improvements to the A.I. is fantastic news to me. I seriously can't wait. I use the A.I everyday and still find it fun racing them in slower cars. Just wish they had knowledge of me and where I am on track.

I'm not fussed about AI improvements - LFS is, after all, an online racing sim. However, I can appreciate that sometimes there are no decent combos running online and it'd be nice to set it up without a guaranteed win every time.

As for what's coming for the AI? I assume the intention is to have them behave just like real people - overtaking, making mistakes and crashing, spamming "ZOMG T3H N00B! BLUE FLAG!!!!!11" every few laps (although maybe not the last one).

AI in racing games is normally flawed. Back in Mario Kart, finishing position (other than yours) was determined by your character choice, and barring accidents they all finished in the same order on every track. TOCA3's AI wasn't bad; it seemed to be pretty random with regards to finishing positions. The Colin McRae Dirt demo AI wasn't too bad either. I've not had a chance to test the Forza 2 AI all that much yet, although the demo AI isn't great and seems to be pretty scripted.

Quote from dungbeetle :

So, for those of you who've tried other sims, which one has (or ones have) the best AI so far, in your opinion?

Right now, in order of the 3 games I have (and IMO of course):


GTR2
LFS
rFactor


GTR2s isn't too bad IMO.

LFS used to have great AI back in the S1 era.. if the new updates match that, I'll be very happy and LFS will jump back to the top slot.

rF's Artificial Ignorance is just a bad joke gone incredibly wrong! and was what eventually made me quit being involved with the game as testing tracks during development wasn't much fun with kamikaze AI.

_Really_ looking forward to the LFS AI updates



Regards,

Ian

I really do care about the AI, as someone said it's sometimes hard to get the sort of race your'e looking for. Some days I feel like doing a 40 lap race with forced pit on SO Long, but rare you would see something like online, especially with competative drivers.

I think Scawen will just make the AI better able to pit, and to adjust their style to suit tyre temps and other variables, also it would be cool to have them more 'racey', making passes and stuff. I'd also like to see them get much faster, on highest settings the AI should be challenging for near-WR lap times.

I'm looking forward to the improvements, as always I'm sure Scawen will make them rock!

Quote from Ian.H :

Right now, in order of the 3 games I have (and IMO of course):


GTR2
LFS
rFactor

...

What is it that makes GTR2 the best of the bunch for you at the moment?

Quote from dungbeetle :

What is it that makes GTR2 the best of the bunch for you at the moment?

As things currently stand, they're the only AI that have anything that resembles Intelligence and you can have a pretty good race with them I've found (granted I'm no alien ).

LFS's AI has an issue of following a fixed path (or there abouts) and therefore has absolutely no idea of your presence on the track, the only plus is that after a few laps, you can work out where you don't want to be at a specific time as the AI is going to share the same piece of tarmac regardless.. so at least they're avoidable, just not much fun to actually race yet and have some real issues at BL1 and knowing where the track goes

rF's is just poor. They either don't race at all and just seem to cruise round, or they'll become kamikaze and even go as far as leave the tarmac and head onto the grass to make sure they rear-end you.. this is what makes them worse for me than LFS' current AI.. at least you can learn where to avoid the AI in LFS, in rF you don't have that choice as they're more like a heat-seeking missile.



Regards,

Ian

In addition to making them better on the track, I'd like to see a slider to adjust their speed on track. I'm no alien, so I can't compete with them on the highest setting if they're getting Alien lap times. I'm not too slow in some combos, so I might fall in the middle of two of the skill levels. A slider eliminates this problem.

I'd also like to see certain skill or attribute sliders. Things like attrition, car preparation (could contribute to mechanical failures) prone to snap under pressure, etc etc.

I'm one of the ones who prefers offline racing since I can race what I want, where I want, when I want and how long I want. You don't get that online.

[EDIT] One more thing on the slider; Id to adjust it on-the-fly on the track so I don't have to do several laps, find I'm too slow, exit, adjust, find I'm too fast, rinse and repeat. I want to adjust it while I'm driving so that I don't have to go back and forth.

[EDIT 2] Oh yes, and get rid of that damn learning system. I HATE this stupid AI learning bullocks. I don't want to have to train my AI for 3 days before they're good enough to compete. Remove it or severaly tone it down, please

Well we already have that slider as we choose the level from beginner to pro. The AI is supposed to match that.

Quote from MAGGOT :

In addition to making them better on the track, I'd like to see a slider to adjust their speed on track. I'm no alien, so I can't compete with them on the highest setting if they're getting Alien lap times. I'm not too slow in some combos, so I might fall in the middle of two of the skill levels. A slider eliminates this problem.

thing is with the current system we have certain ais that learn seperaste from each other and increase their skills in a way that depends on the ai strenght
unless scawen ops for something entirely different i dont see how a slider could be done with a self learning ai

Quote from SpikeyMarcoD :

Well we already have that slider as we choose the level from beginner to pro. The AI is supposed to match that.

Quote from MAGGOT :

...I might fall in the middle of two of the skill levels. A slider eliminates this problem.

Having 4 or 5 'strengths' is not a slider.

Quote from Shotglass :

thing is with the current system we have certain ais that learn seperaste from each other and increase their skills in a way that depends on the ai strenght
unless scawen ops for something entirely different i dont see how a slider could be done with a self learning ai

I'd like to see self learning AI removed, as per my second edit. It's a completely useless 'feature' imho.

Some other things to consider...

The development of the AI will take additional steps - as not every form of racing has the same technique..

Oval racing differs in terms of over taking and maintaining pace, drafting etc.

Circuit/ road racing differs in technique to dirt racing.

The AI will have to be able to determin which type of surface thay are on, and the type of track.

Straight forward really to code I would have thought, but the difficulty is in making them good... or great.

Im not so sure its going to be an easy one this -and it may take time...

I wonder if they will be able to determine there own setup? If you never tell an AI to use your own set up - which one are they currently using?

Quote from MAGGOT :

I'd like to see self learning AI removed, as per my second edit. It's a completely useless 'feature' imho.

an ai can only have the "I" bit if its self learning ... if it isnt its just artificial

imho the self learning is the single best idea ever to hit racing games (probably inspired through being on the b&w team)

the learning is a poor idea; why make them start out like crap for no reason? Make the AI good to start out with so that we can have a good race out of the box.

Also, the 'I' part doesn't need to be learning; it should be interpreting the situation and acting accordingly.

I really do not understand the obsession with AI that 'learns.'

Because a learning AI is pretty much the only way to go if you don't want to cheat, at least regarding raw hotlapping speed. General rules regarding fellow racers surely need some extra attention and a special implementation, but getting an AI to lap fast but at the same time adhere to the physical rules and adapt to setup changes is only really possible if it is a self optimizing, "learning" system.