Having originally played the demo and found the roadholding on the one circuit on offer a bit tricky, I assumed it was just me getting used to the game. The dirt track roadholding seemed quite authentic (I've done a very small amount of off-road go-karting as well as some tarmac races) but having just paid for and installed the S1 release (presume Patch X is this latest release and don't need to install that over the top?) I have to question the grip of any of the cars on offer.
I currently drive a fast sports car and at my age (59) am reasonably experienced at handling all manner of cars on assorted surfaces. On dry tarmac, most of the cars in the game should grip very well going round bends - the single seater and some of the two seaters (look like the Lotus or Caterham 7) should grip these surfaces with ease. Their wide wheelbase, fat wheels and low centre of gravity should allow them to whip through bends with hardly a twitch provided one isn't overly heavy on the throttle, but these cars twitch and spin off as if they were running on slicks on wet roads - and even under these circumstances the real cars would have way more grip than those in the game do in the dry.

I've read threads where those in the know say one should drive much slower, accelerate extremely delicately through and out of bends, but I do that in real life and know I can safely rely on my car to grip and hold the road. Not so in the game - you'd think we were driving on snow and ice.
Whilst I'm having a whinge, I realise work is being done on upgrading the A1 so that it doesn't ram into me at every opportunity as though I were invisible (at least I hope that's what the developers are doing), but the merest touch from an A1 car, and mine leaps into the air or develops an interest in revolving on the spot as though it weighs about two pounds instead of the several hundred of the real vehicle. It wouldn't be quite so bad if the A1 cars had the same problems but drive into or nudge one of them and they barely twitch a muscle and continue on their way unaffected as though I don't exist. How come their cars don't weigh two pounds as well?

I don't play any games online but I assume those who play against other human drivers find everyone suffering from similar lack of grip - at least that puts them all on an even footing and thus makes the races fairer. I also presume it's only the A1 that have superglue on their tyres. The roadholding issues need to be attended to if this is ever going to be remotely realistic. We need to play this game on a level setting - either our cars all grip the road and drive realistically or none of them do - I wish the developers would make up their minds.

Despite my moans, I still enjoy the overall driving experience, the realistic sense of speed and the 'normality' of the graphics - skies, trees, roadside rendering that don't look as cartoon-like as some games, but I feel disinclined to pay for and download the S2 add-on until I can see some increased sense of reality kicking into this game. For now I'll just have to deal with the A1's concrete fast cars and hope things improve with later patches.
What is interesting, though, is that after several intense sessions playing the game, when I later jump into my own car and head off into the hills, I find I'm taking bends way more cautiously than before . . .

A few things first before more detailed analysis:
1. Do you have S2 with the latest patch X or are you using an old S1 version? There is a big difference and you can use S2X even with S1 license so you don't need to pay anymore to experience the new physics.
2. What setups are you using? the default setups are really bad.

It's AI not A1 and their cars weigh the same, but they just have superhuman reflexes with correcting slides. AI fixes are coming in the next patch. The collision system isn't perfected yet either, so it's acts a bit funny half of the time.

Without going to in-depth, I do agree some of the cars mainly the road cars all feel a little weird , i think the cars with slicks and down force handle pritty realistic as far as grip goes. Expect the FWD's gtr's they eat tires a little unrealistic for me and skid around alot.

But i do understand what you say about the being on ice feel to the road cars, and i totally agree about how the lx's are portrayed in the game just feels wrong.

Hopefully the new physics changes improve the overall feel plus a better system for tire heating and cooling.

In LFS defense, for me its still the best sim out there. Maybe the physics are a little weird, for now but it does have a very solid base in which to improve on.

Hopefully it goes in the devs go in right direction to improving the overall feel in which the cars handle.

Noone's going to say the tyres are perfect, but they're closer than you suggest and the cars do actually pull very high lateral g in the corners, even the lowest down the ladder road cars pull over 1g. The LX (7type car) cars pull 1.5g+ iirc. Certainly not slicks on a wet track or snow and ice figures.

I put it to you, that you do not realise how fast you are going, and are also unable to feel the severity of your (steering,throttle,brake) inputs. It's quite common that people get this first impression. Some don't get over it, others do and stick around for a long time

But of course, we are all looking forward to every physics/tyre improvement that is coming to us.

The grip is pretty much ok… the sensation of speed isn’t and it depends on your screen size, the field of view you are using and other graphic factors… Also there is the lack of real forces your body feels when you are in a real car and blah blah…

All these have been mentioned many many many times…

The only way to feel the amount of the cars “grip” is to have a close look to the speed you are going ebery time, and on the G values you can see when pressing F9 & F10.

And simply get used with the limited data you get from your screen, your force feedback wheel and your imagination...

You must install the S2 release and simply unlock only the S1 content to have the game we are talking about now…

Mr choxaway, i say you try it some more, everyone gets similiar first impression but realizes how wrong they were after a couple of more tries...
You are most certainly going too fast too violently trough bends, and you probably used Default sets.. Try Race_S set at least...
Pay more attention to the speeds you are going and just try and replicate your real life driving while accepting that there are no G forces pulling you, try and compensate for that and try to move your steering wheel and pressing your pedals as you would do in real life...
As it's been said, it's not perfect yet, but closest to RL IMO...
And welcome..

There are a whole lot of different players making pretty varied setups for you to try. It may make a night and day difference to you: http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu. There are about 2 thousand setups in total on that one site.

The tire physics are on the slippery side of realistic, but all things considered, they are close to being the most accurate and definitely one of (if not the) most enjoyable physics and feedback of all racing sims. Most players agree, and a few pros, including Guy Smith more or less echo that impression.
The next patch will include aerodynamics, AI, and maybe tire updates. One of the ideas that's been floating around is to make different brands of tires, which kills two birds with one stone: performance variance between real rubber brands, and the tire physics shortcomings you've noticed.

Quote from Breizh :

The next patch will include aerodynamics, AI, and maybe tire updates. One of the ideas that's been floating around is to make different brands of tires, which kills two birds with one stone: performance variance between real rubber brands, and the tire physics shortcomings you've noticed.

Speculation or have Scawen mentioned this lately somewhere?

Also, try turning the tyre noise volume up to maximum (and the other sound settings down a bit if necessary) so you can hear when the tyres start to scrub more clearly.

This should provide useful feedback for you in the absence of g-forces, until you become more familiar with the handling characteristics for each car.

choxaway - have you played around with the Field of View settings in LFS' options? I think the default is 90, and I find lowering it to about 55 gives a better "connection" to the car, or at least to me with a 20" screen. Problem is, it makes you blind on the sides, and using the left/right look buttons completely makes you lose track of where you're going (or maybe it's the smooth look that throws me off).

I was in a friend's truck the other week and he decided he wanted to steer left and right real fast to scare me (at about 25 mph). The truck gripped easily, and you could feel the bodyroll like it was no problem. Do this same thing in LFS, and you've got skidding tires and loads of understeer, even at those low speeds. Then again, I was using the default setups in LFS, so I don't really know what to believe.

Welcome Choxaway

You are using a force feedback wheel arn't you?

I wont defend LFS tyre physics as perfect, but IMO theres plenty of grip available once you find the limits of the car and set, I use F9 to show tyre temps and muddy or over hot tyres will feel very slippy, but good tyre management helps some

whilst many enjoy LFS in single player, the online gamecode in LFS is second to none and racing human players of similar skills to your own really does make a world of difference to "driving with" those AI cars

I recomend you try it if you can Im sure we would welcome you at one of our T7R servers anytime (provided one is running an S1 available combo) we are all very friendly and can share sets ect.

SD.

LFS may not be quite perfect but as others have said your issue is you're just driving too fast and making far too aggresive steering inputs.

Quote from deggis :

Speculation or have Scawen mentioned this lately somewhere?

How could you forget?

Quote from April Update Page :

Four manufacturers are selectable in the car setup screen. For now, the different manufacturers are selected only for graphical effect...

http://www.lfs.net/?page=t_a_u

With the default FOV (field of view) it feels like you are going slower than if you would go the same speed in a real car. The lack of experiencing the G-forces contribute to this feeling too. And remember that you should warm up your tyres (and have the right camber) before you can judge the overall grip level. From what I have tested on the skid-pad, the values seems quite OK to me.

On the other side, I'm not so sure about the combined lateral/longitudal grip when braking/accelerating through the corner which could be quite non-trivial to simulate properly (for example, see http://www.racer.nl/reference/pacejka.htm how "magic" it could be ... and even if you have the right engine to simulate all of that, getting the real pacejka coefficients from the vendors or by measuring it yourself is close to impossible).

Quote from tigerboyz :

I was in a friend's truck the other week and he decided he wanted to steer left and right real fast to scare me (at about 25 mph). The truck gripped easily, and you could feel the bodyroll like it was no problem. Do this same thing in LFS, and you've got skidding tires and loads of understeer, even at those low speeds. Then again, I was using the default setups in LFS, so I don't really know what to believe.

I haven’t found such a strange behavior with any setup...

You have to give realistic inputs to have the reaction you get when you drive a real car.

You have to turn the wheel at similar speed to what you can do in a real car…
If you turn the wheel to the lock in a faster rate than what the suspension can handle then you only get loads of understeer and that’s absolutely realistic.

In a real car which has a wheel with 2 – 3.5 rotations from lock to lock you just can’t steer the wheel so fast as you can do with any pc game controller…

Quote from bbman :

How could you forget?
http://www.lfs.net/?page=t_a_u

That doesn't mean anything. The tyre manufacturers are only graphical now, but it's not sure how they will be in the future. There has been probably a thought about differences, but no definite decision. It isn't even a very good idea imho.

@deggis & Breizh: I don't think Scawen has mentioned anything specific about the physics updates in Y. Only that there will be some updates. Give links if I have missed something.

The AI update and the (at least) minor improvements to aerodynamics were in one of the Test patch threads, if I remember correctly.
The tires update (not necessarily tire brands physics) is my speculation that it'd be included in what I remember Scawen saying that there would be physics updates besides aerodynamics in the next patch.. IIR, this too I read in a test patch thread, but I'm not sure if that was where he said so, now that I think about it.

Geeman, I am pretty sure I've seen Scawen himself say that this was the objective regarding tire brands. It is a good idea, since like I said real rubber works that way, e.g. tire manufacturers being major factors in World Superbike or MotoGP championships.
Why do you think it's a bad idea? Tire physics are obviously not easy to "solve", so spreading out across a few different tire "brands" all the possible tire physics solutions (in a programing sense) that each come short of "just right" in various characteristics would be a good solution.
I don't have links to Scawen's post saying so, but I'm sure he did say so, as I remembered then and there that I had suggested the same solution some time beforehand.

Quote from Breizh :

Geeman, I am pretty sure I've seen Scawen himself that was the objective regarding tire brands. It is a good idea, since like I said real rubber works that way, e.g. tire manufacturers being major factors in World Superbike or MotoGP championships.

The thing is that there is no logical way of telling how which tyre works. It's just the way they are. It would be just a confusing part of the setup and in the end people would have to look from a guide which tyre fits the best for the current race/track.
LFS is a game so it doesn't work like RL where you are bound by sponsordeals and are forced to use the certain manufacturers tyres, good or bad. In a game you can always choose which tyres you use for every single time you race.

Quote from LFSn00b :

Downloding the S2 "add-on" doesn't need the S2 license, you can still use your S1 license in the S2 add-on.

My fault for not being familiar with the terminology - I have only released the amount of tracks and cars I can drive with my S1 licence - I'll need an S2 licence to release the remainder. It would have been simpler if they'd named the two sections perhaps Phase 1 and 2 to avoid the multiple use of 'S' - being new to this game, I was rather muddled.

Quote from choxaway :

It would have been simpler if they'd named the two sections perhaps Phase 1 and 2 to avoid the multiple use of 'S' - being new to this game, I was rather muddled.

S = Stage
It can be a bit confusing though. Were now at S2 (stage 2). The game is the same, but the license only determines how many cars/tracks you can use. So the licenses only buy you the content, but the stages refer to state of the game.

I see what you mean, but I don't think it would be that troublesome.
You would learn the different rubbers' characters just like you do in reality. That's not hard, you just try it out and see.. that's pretty straightforward and logical. Tires are at the end of the car, setup-wise, so it wouldn't be as complicated to understand and remember what each brand does and doesn't. The physics for a given tire brand won't vary, so there won't be any surprises.
How complicated could it be? Scawen surely wouldn't make it so hard to understand that the common player couldn't easily figure it out with some track time... As it is, most players don't even bother figuring out setup-making what with so many variables (i.e. it's confusing), and that hasn't stopped LFS from being so fun and successful. Sites like Team Inferno's setupfield surely avoided that.

A certain setup would definitely work best with a certain tire brand, but it wouldn't necessarily not work at all with other brands.
And it would indeed be a good option to have one brand permanently selected, but that's not so hard to keep track of, just like you check your fuel load now. I'd say the present tire physics could be one of the brands, sitting right in the middle of the performance spread, with the other brands having better performance in some aspects at the cost of others.

That's just it. You shouldn't have to learn anything like that. It's different from all the other settings of the car, because it would be LFS specific attributes of the tyre.
It's also impossible to force people to always use the same brands. I for one don't want any career mode like stuff like sponsordeals and such.

It's just a big bag of trouble and unless you have a very good argument why it would be benefical to the game it should be left like it is now. Adding things just because they are in real life is not always a good idea.

imho tyre brands would be an interesting option for leagues

How is learning a tyre brand's characteristics any different from learning what a certain setup option does? So they would be LFS specific to some extent, but what is so bad about that? Besides that, the whole current setup system is also LFS specific, or have you ever seen qualifying setups IRL being anywhere close to the current locked-diff-everywhere WR setups?

I think cars like the FOX should only have one control tyre available, and also the road-normal equipped cars really need to be rid of the hybrid tyre thing.

Different brands is meaningless unless you're forced to use the inferior one sometimes, but I don't think that adds anything positive anyway. There are not many series' that have multiple tyre manufacturers, and F1 is better for being rid of that element too.