I should be getting my motorcycle permit fairly soon, and have been reading up on it as much as possible. I just recently read an article on countersteering, which is causing a bit of confusion...

I've been riding dirt bikes since I was around eight, and have never noticed myself countersteer. Is it possible that i've been turning incorrectly all this time, or is it more likely that I just never noticed myself countersteer.

I'm also a tad confused as to what the actual "countersteering" is. I saw a few videos on youtube that basically showed it as being "a quick turn of the wheel in the opposite direction of the turn, which initiates a lean, at which point the wheel is then turned into the turn". However, watching motoGP, i've noticed that those guys seem to keep the wheel turned away from the turn through the whole turn. To further confuse myself, I saw ANOTHER video on youtube where a guy was going thirty miles per hour, down a completely straight road, turned his wheel so that it faced left, DID NOT LEAN AT ALL, and his bike drifted to the right side of his lane, while he KEPT his wheel facing left.

Help? I'm neither too sure as to what countersteering IS, and not too sure if i've been turning incorrectly all this time.

Countersteering basically means that you don't have to use the weight of your body to lean the bike. Although when you fight with the bike to the opposite side of it's natural lean (when steering) it will act as you saw on that video.

It will all become clear when you've been riding a while. Don't worry about countersteering, you will do it naturally without even thinking about it.

The important thing if you want to corner fast is to get all your weight over the front and push down on the inside bar with half of your butt off of the seat on the side you are leaning towards.

I'm not a biker, and please correct me if I talk nonsense, but I guess that you countersteer all the time. Countersteer on two wheeled vehicles is simply that your vehicle turns opposide direction than your steering rod.

It's near impossible to lean a bike over without the front wheel deflection that c/s gives you.

If you're aware of it, it becomes very useful. Someone that knows that if you give the left hand grip a tug (active c/s) the bike will pitch over hard to the right is going to be better off in a swerve to avoid situation than someone that thinks they should just try to lean to the right (passive c/s).

Don't worry about which way the wheel is pointing mid turn, just remember to change your path (or tighten the line mid-corner) deflect the front wheel in the opposite direction.

btw: post a link to the vid of the guy turning the bars fully to the left and bike not doing anything please.

Thanks for the advice.

I need to head down to the store tomorrow to pick up some air filter oil, i'll try to be more aware of it, and try to play around with it.

Might even take on a hill nearby my house, see if I can notice it then.

And thanks for the weight advice Gentlefoot. That had been confusing me for the past few days. I figured it'd be better to use my rear brakes into and through a turn, yet to get maximum rear brake efficiency, that'd mean that i'd need to drop my ass on the absolute rear of my bike, which didn't make sense for turning.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

It will all become clear when you've been riding a while. Don't worry about countersteering, you will do it naturally without even thinking about it.

The important thing if you want to corner fast is to get all your weight over the front and push down on the inside bar with half of your butt off of the seat on the side you are leaning towards.

Couldn't have put it better myself

Not another one of these threads again....

Don't brake round a turn, thats my advice!

Do all your braking before you reach the corner, and accelerating when out of the corner

Until you are used to your bike (and even when you are), changing speed while conering can be very dangerous!

Quote from sinkoman :

Thanks for the advice.

And thanks for the weight advice Gentlefoot. That had been confusing me for the past few days. I figured it'd be better to use my rear brakes into and through a turn, yet to get maximum rear brake efficiency, that'd mean that i'd need to drop my ass on the absolute rear of my bike, which didn't make sense for turning.

Be very careful of using the brakes in the turn. You are using up your traction circle with lateral grip and any longitudinal forces caused by you braking could result in a loss of grip.

In a car you can brake deep into a corner but this is much more risky on a bike. You will also find that the bike won't want to drop over when you have the brakes on. After about 5 years of riding I was able to brake deeper into corners but it took some time. Sometime I head into a corner still with a small amount of front brake on. As you release the brake the bike drops over but until then you can't lay it down.

Forget about 'backing in' to corners - strictly track riding only - very easy to get wrong.

It will become clear when you get the bike up to speed a bit (say 30 mph) and just give one side of the bar a light push or a pull.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pAkfV9muHk thats bike countersteering by the master.. I wouldn't try that at home, at least not when the nearest hospital is far away..

That driving is what racing is really about! That is wat formula one used to be until the mid 70s as well..

Beauty!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... rt/motorbikes/default.stm

Speaking of Rossi, great interview there, Murray asking the questions

this is what they teach in the Netherlands on advanced bike training
counter steer : normally you steer with your body/weight
then you push against the inside steer bar so your bike doesn't steer more in the corner then you want.
you are steering against your "weight"steering(counter steer)
i think everybody does it without knowing it

its pretty simple really
much like a car a bike goes where you steer it ... trouble is like a car it does so down at the tyres so if you steer left your tyres will go to the left your body being inert however wont

and dont try to steer your bike with your weight the only thing youll achieve that way is delay the right reaction (steering) when it really matters

Quote from swingkid :

this is what they teach in the Netherlands on advanced bike training
counter steer : normally you steer with your body/weight
then you push against the inside steer bar so your bike doesn't steer more in the corner then you want.
you are steering against your "weight"steering(counter steer)
i think everybody does it without knowing it

Sorry, I don't think you quite grasp what the term means. "Countersteering" is a term used to describe the way that you push the bars in the opposite direction to the way you wish to turn. In so doing, you deflect the wheels to the opposite side and the bike leans and turns in the chosen direction

If you push the inside bar the bike will turn more, not less.

no you push it dont pull it
(it is in "normal' cornering ,not drifting
the term has nothing to do with the countersteering in cars when sliding )
(i drive 15000 km on my bike in a year so im no "newby", but i also wont say i'm an expert )

Quote from swingkid :

no you push it dont pull it
(it is in "normal' cornering ,not drifting
the term has nothing to do with the countersteering in cars when sliding)

I know. It also has nothing to do with steering against your body weight.

If your bike is leaned over a bit, not sliding at all, and you push the inside bar, the bike will lean more and turn sharper. Pull the inside bar, and the bike will stand up and straighten its course.

i dont mean body weight but you steer with yuor weight on a bike
by moving your weight to a side the bike wil steer
if you try this (don't) with no hand the bike may steer to much
then when you push (ad fore in the direction away from the tank,"moving" it against the steer direction) against the steer side that is the lowest to the ground the steering wil remain to the point you want it to
maybay (probely) whe mean the same (my english isn't that good)

Quote from swingkid :

i dont mean body weight but you steer with yuor weight on a bike
by moving your weight to a side the bike wil steer
if you try this (don't) with no hand the bike may steer to much

no you dont
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644

in the movie you see him using is upper body????
you move your hips if you don't : you have to jerk real hard on the steering
do you drive a bike your self?
at the lessens whe get in Holland whe have to do slalom and avoiding maneuvers then you realize that you cant turn a bike with the steer alone
with all respect whe differ from opinion(i don't have movies to back it up only my lessons and experience) so i probably wont react anny more
BUT i will talk this over with my bikerfriens and probably a instructor and feel the ride (if i have prove your right,not from one source but more, i post it afcourse
have a nice day and discussions will allways make people at least think about things they take for granted

In the movie he tries to use his upper body with fake handlebars (not connected to steering), and the bike barely moves.

He then uses the normal handlebars, applying pressure to one side (with pulling or pushing, doesn't matter, it just reverses the side) and the bike reacts instantly.

Your school in Holland is wrong.

Edit: Yes, I ride a bike. A Kawasaki Balius import (my cousin's bike, and it's rubbish). I used to own various small (250cc) bikes in my late teens. I have also ridden lots of bicycles too (where the same principles apply).

Edit2: Since when is body mass all in the hips. He was rocking his upper body, sitting on the side of the bike, and generally moving his CoG around quite a lot.

does annayone who says i am wrong have tried it themself
ore is that all based on just one movie( he didnt move his hips!)

Quote from swingkid :

does annayone who says i am wrong have tried it themself
ore is that all based on just one movie( he didnt move his hips!)

I think everyone that has posted here rides a motorcycle unless otherwise stated. Maybe you should read some literature on the subject.

I recommend "Sport Riding Techniques" by Nick Ienatsch (endorsed by and foreword written Kenny Roberts).

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP048.html
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.c ... torcycle_countersteering/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
http://www.vsa.cape.com/~wayg/mrep/csteer.htm
http://www.obairlann.net/reape ... nner/countersteering.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/countersteering
http://www.ixion.org.uk/faq/countersteering.html