Quote from Electrik Kar :

I want this as a car option...

I would like a tow truck for broken cars :P

Quote from jtw62074 :

And you're going to control their location, how?

they got to be stored somewhere in memory so it cant be all that hard to manipulate their positions
and by looking at so/curbs the spline system can handle sharp bumps/ruts

id rather worry about the collision detection acting up in those ruts than about the splines themself

I wouldn't really worry about those tire treads seen in the pic in the 1st post because there is nothing so soft in LFS, at least atm.. I'd be quite satisfied with the gravel surface being dynamic,as the rce goes on the surface gets worse and the textures could be enough to visualize it. Or some small holes and bumps generated in places where tires lock and/or lots of wheelspin/sliding occurs.

In short, I'm more interested about the "surface deformation and physics related stuff (grip levels, bumps and holes) than the visual effect". Wouldn't the graphical stuff of the bumps use more resources than the simulation part?

We aren't driving on a corn field wtf

Quote from Shotglass :

they got to be stored somewhere in memory so it cant be all that hard to manipulate their positions
and by looking at so/curbs the spline system can handle sharp bumps/ruts

id rather worry about the collision detection acting up in those ruts than about the splines themself

Much easier said than done. If you have a few spines along the width of the track you can make some waves across it, but putting a 150mm wide curved rut precisely located wherever you want is probably not a realistic option, even if you were to manually do it. You don't have infinite control over the surface with splines unless you have a LOT of splines. In that case you might as well do it with high density polys. That'd be a lot easier. Attempting to calculate the changes needed on the spline to do it automatically would be rather challenging, to say the least, even for one rut. Want another one perpendicular to that one crossing through it? Errr... Try playing with splines some time and you'll probably see what I mean.

This would most likely be an exceedingly difficult approach to the problem which could be solved in much easier ways.

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I wouldn't really worry about those tire treads seen in the pic in the 1st post because there is nothing so soft in LFS, at least atm..

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We aren't driving on a corn field wtf

If the devs did work out a way to simulate dynamic changes in the road encompassing both physics and graphical elements, you'd probably want a track to really let loose on which showcased it all. Like the carpark- you could just have an open (more or less) dirt paddock kind of space. Maybe with a few jumps and some soft spots where people could even get bogged. Or a twisty dirt road track where if you went off too far you'd really slow down and start churning up the mud. You could put the track together with the paddock (like BL and BL carpark) with different configurations designed around differing degrees of difficulty, from an easy oval route to a nightmarish twisted rally config, and a couple of in-between options. Maybe new game type where the first car to cover itself in mud (100%) wins- like Zen Bondage, if you ever saw that one. hmmm... :nut:

Coffee... It's amazing stuff.


edit: What I'm trying to say is, if any kindof work is going to happen in this area (dirt/rally/mud) - it's gotta be accompanied by an environment in which it can more fully express itself, otherwise I don't think it will be worth it on the part of the devs. The rally segments in LFS currently are very brief affairs. Everyone harps on about rain- but a richer rally experience would be (IMO) a much more fulfilling and fun ride than simply having slippery tracks.

Quote from jtw62074 :

Much easier said than done. If you have a few spines along the width of the track you can make some waves across it, but putting a 150mm wide curved rut precisely located wherever you want is probably not a realistic option, even if you were to manually do it. You don't have infinite control over the surface with splines unless you have a LOT of splines. In that case you might as well do it with high density polys.

wouldnt you just need 3 additional points across the width of the track to create a more or less realistic rut ?

in real life rallycross tyre tracks don't affect the driver very much. there nearly aren't any tyretracks on the surface. it would just be eyecandy. we are talking about cars with too much horsepower for gravel/mud. they just transfer the mud away from the racing line.

the main problem are the holes that are getting deeper and deeper during a race and MUCH more important is the dirt on the tarmac which makes overtaking on the outside impossible in tarmac-turns after a mud-part (at least without recent track-service).

the holes form mostly at the same places, but the mud just has to be a little more dry/wet and the surface forms in another way.

either scawen can implement this in a very simple and arcadish way or he chooses not to do this. imho it's impossible to do this in a realistic way.

we don't have decent rx tyres yet, nor cars, nor starting grids etc. etc. yet, so i don't see how this will ever be implemented.

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we don't have decent rx tyres yet, nor cars, nor starting grids etc. etc. yet, so i don't see how this will ever be implemented.

/Electrik Kar begins to cry...:weeping:

Quote from Fetzo :

we don't have decent rx tyres yet, nor cars, nor starting grids etc. etc. yet, so i don't see how this will ever be implemented.

have you ever heard anything about a rallyx pack after the S2 final release??

No he hasn't. Unless you mean the rally pack, which is (would be) something completely different than a rallyx pack.

I never heard..

/Electrik Kar stops crying, listens intently..

Quote from AndroidXP :

No he hasn't. Unless you mean the rally pack, which is (would be) something completely different than a rallyx pack.

rally pack does mean rallyx tracks added...be sure, stop dreaming

Nonono, that's what YOU are thinking. More rallyX tracks would be a complete waste of time, as the current ones greatly fulfill their purpose. It's like requesting a new variant of Aston National, as if we hadn't enough of them already. More rallyX tracks wouldn't do anything. It would just mean we have more broad boring mud tracks.
Either add rally tuned cars and stages, or don't bother at all, seriously.

To be honest, I think the rally pack is pretty much a myth, that was one time mentioned by one dev as "maybe", and ever since then the community acts like the rally pack is a fact. I wouldn't put any hope into it. It would be nice to have, but...

Quote :

Q:
What's the status on the Rally Pack, and what can the people expect from it?
A:
Victor : I don't think a start has been made yet. We are still working on S2 final and we will have to gather around after that to see if it is time for a rally pack.

They haven't gathered around yet.

Quote from Flotch :

have you ever heard anything about a rallyx pack after the S2 final release??

hehehe, uhm ok. when S2 is final in 2 years i will really be looking forward to this pack (yes i actually forgot that one) .

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More rallyX tracks would be a complete waste of time, as the current ones greatly fulfill their purpose. It's like requesting a new variant of Aston National, as if we hadn't enough of them already. More rallyX tracks wouldn't do anything. It would just mean we have more broad boring mud tracks.

Obviously you don't like rallycross at all, so i will excuse your ignorance. i guess broad tarmac track aren't boring, eh? we have so many of them already!

or do you prefer tight boring mud tracks?

Imho there are not enough decent rallycross tracks (imho FE5 is very bad), but the lack of decent rallycross cars is even more bad.

:bump:

I'd love to see at least skidmarks on non-tarmac surfaces. C'mon, that could be done for patch y, right

i have motorstorm for my PS3, and it has the same thing that your suggesting. on motorostorm, if you following a light buggy, it deforms the mud a little bit, but if your following a big rig, it deforms it a hell of alot, and can prove "interesting" if you get your car stuck into them.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

i have motorstorm for my PS3, and it has the same thing that your suggesting. on motorostorm, if you following a light buggy, it deforms the mud a little bit, but if your following a big rig, it deforms it a hell of alot, and can prove "interesting" if you get your car stuck into them.

Yea, but would the average computer be able to handle it? Since the PS3 is one of the most advanced pieces of gaming hardware around.

EDIT: Not comparing to the supercomputers hardheaded gamers have of course.

Ah BS is the PS3 more powerful than the PC - in some ways it is, in others it looses out massively

Quote from Jakg :

Ah BS is the PS3 more powerful than the PC - in some ways it is, in others it looses out massively

I'm talking about the average PC, a gaming PC at the absolute top in computers would totally smack it, but not everyone has that. I myself sit on a laptop with a not so good graphicscard and I was totally thrilled that LFS would work on it lag-free!
Not many driving-games/simulators work on it, if they work I can only run it with the superlow-graphics and even then it won't be lag-free.

I think that it should be kept that way, that any average computer can run it with not to much hassle so everybody, even those that don't have supercomputers or the money for a new computer, can enjoy the fun of LFS.

(Yes, I am aware that I am a demo-driver.)

wavelets to speed up the spline calcs?

i dunno. it sounds like doing the ruts properly would be quite difficult. on the other hand, accumulating loose dirt on the outside of turns, and making them more slippery as the race goes on, would be much easier and have just as big (or bigger) effect on the driving experience.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

i have motorstorm for my PS3, and it has the same thing that your suggesting. on motorostorm, if you following a light buggy, it deforms the mud a little bit, but if your following a big rig, it deforms it a hell of alot, and can prove "interesting" if you get your car stuck into them.

But isn't it only a graphical trick?

According to HYPE™ new Sega Rally game is going to have real physically deformable road... dunno what the hell you do with such feature in a arcade game.

Im sure it would be hard (Unless Scawen can recreate the Doom3/F.E.A.R engine in RaceSim Form.) But I think it's possible!

Hell... I would live to even see cracks in wall barriers created from a direct head on crash in a BF1 at 220 mph on KY1 using the very same concept!

Must be hard and impractical for a race sim... but I give this a +100000000

Oh.... (forum whore today I am [yoda]) ... also, once LFS gains snow this deformation thing would loookk f***ing awesome!

Quote from Fetzo :

hehehe, uhm ok. when S2 is final in 2 years i will really be looking forward to this pack (yes i actually forgot that one) .



Obviously you don't like rallycross at all, so i will excuse your ignorance. i guess broad tarmac track aren't boring, eh? we have so many of them already!

or do you prefer tight boring mud tracks?

Imho there are not enough decent rallycross tracks (imho FE5 is very bad), but the lack of decent rallycross cars is even more bad.

[yoda again: I see very bad thing I do, LFS drivers are turning to the dark side of the force.]

How 'bout.. More tracks of everykind... loads of em!