I'ld like to see some change in how complaints are handled. Last season this was a bit of a mess and numerous complaints are still undecided. I suggest only team managers make complaints and only team managers should be able to discuss complaints. There should also be a time within which complaints should be handled and decided on. something like 24h max to make your complaint, 48h max to get a decision from the jury.

As for cutting, it should be allowed as long as you dont get an advantage.

Quote from Arrow. :

Track Cutting
Cutting track in order to gain a time advantage is not acceptable
will result in a penalty

like some said... Do an inspection on where you can cut on certain track, and put baricades there. extra tyres, wall and so on

or just do it in normal rl racing, where two wheels on a kerb (thats what they are there for), or two wheels of the grass... but any significant cutting should result in some sort of time penalty, like +2.00 or something silly like that

Quote from Arrow. :

These are the rules from last season. lets improve them for this up coming season

Disconnection
If you lose connection after lap 5 you can rejoin and finish the race pitstop is not Mandatory. If you lose connection between lap 0 - 5 you can rejoin and finish you must pit before lap 45
You must cross finish line to receive points

I think no points for a DSC is bit harsh in many cases, for example: your team has been driving for one hour & about to secure a good result when two laps from the end they have connection probs & DSC. To give no points would seem a hard line to take.

How about you receive a percentage of the points based on race distance completed & position in race before DSC?

90% like F1?

no reply on the DSC ruling?? (few posts back)

Also when & where can we find the finished rules & regs for the series. There seems to be a lot of things still open to debate. Only 3 weeks to go guys.

Now Most things have been sorted out.
The Rules will be made over the weekend, please post any suggestion or criticism you may have. Thanks

I also wanted to add what i see Mr Pio has added, can we also introduce a 90% race distance rule in order to score, for disconnections as well as people deciding they cant be arsed taking part and instead of parking the car in the pitlane and then crossing the line when the race is over just so they can score points.
Either you take part or go home!

Also theres still a few things that are vague in the rules, things like the cutting, its all good and well saying no cutting to save time, but exactly what is your definition of cutting? touching a blade of grass, all 4 wheels off the track intentionally, is it to be applied to repetitive cutting or every single time its done???
These sort of things need to be put down in black and white, giving no room for individual interpretation which ends up with differing opinions on what is and isnt acceptable.

Yellow flags & no overtaking isnt going to be an easy one to rule on either, its described a little grey to start with, and then you also have the issue of irratic appearances of the yellow warning and the fact that most people see it as just a driving aid to warn you of whats coming up, screw slowing down and observing the caution, its little more than a 'hazard ahead' warning and its going to be pretty tough to curb peoples typical reaction to these messages.

Do the rules say anything about drafting during Qualify ?

Updated Version of the Rules please give feedback

Disconnection
If you disconnect or lose connection you are unable to rejoin the race.
All DNF or Loss of Connection are placed behind all finishers. If there are a number of non finishes it will be ordered by the number of laps completed then by the server#
Example: Player 1 DNF lap 2 (server #1), Player 2 DNF lap 2 (Server#2). Player 1 will finish above Player 2.
You must cross finish line to receive points

Connection/Lag
Before you launch LFS please ensure all the unnecessary programs are closed.
Lag will not be used as a excuse for racing incidents
Example: music, instant web messaging, emails, internet explorer,

Race Restarts
There will be no Restarts. Unless there is a serious problem with the server or grid spots

Pit Lane
Speeding in Pit Lane will result in a automatic drive through penalty.
Enter Pit lane and exit in a safe manor. you Must stay between the yellow lines when exiting pit lane. It is recommended you do the same entering pit lane.

Flags

• Yellow Flag: Caution Crash ahead, avoid overtaking until track is clear.
  
• Blue Flag: Drivers that are a lap down or receive the blue flag. Will need to move off the race line for the car behind. The lead car should not have lost any time. When passing. avoid erratic movements.

Racing Conduct
Drivers must overtake in a safe and respectful manner. Drivers should have at least a half-car overlap on another car before committing to an overtaking maneuver.

When overtaking and defending, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.

Driver may change there race line to defend, once then return to race line. Continuous line changing is not allowed when defending

Bump Drafting in Racing is allowed, providing it is done in a safe manor.

Qualifying
In Qualifying any form of contact is not allowed, eg Bumpdrafting

Track Cutting

Outside of Corner
2wheels in grass: Is fine providing there was no time advantage and you rejoin the circuit safely.
4wheels in grass: Is fine providing there was no time advantage and you rejoin the circuit safely.

Inside of Corner
2wheels in grass: could possibly be given a penalties if there is a time advantage and is used consistently
4 wheels in the grass: Will result in a penalty, as it is shortening the track and giving time advantage which is unfair to other competitiors
If you Cut the track because of driver error ect. Attempt to slow down and rejoin the track safely.
Curbs, ripple strips, bitumen are allowed to be used

Resets and Shift + P (telepit)
Are strictly not allowed

Chatting
Practise: Chatting is allowed.
Qualifying: Chatting is allowed but should be kept to a minimum.
Race: Chatting is not allowed. unless very important.
You will have a warning. If you continue it will result in a drive through penalties

Lodging a Complaint
If you would like to jodge a complain please fill in a complaint form on the BOTT website (link to come) you have 48 hours to lodge your complaint
player names:
Lap:
Race Time:
What happened:
The complaint will be forwarded to the opposite party to tell there side to the story. Then tribunal board they will come to a conclusion on a penalty. From there the decision is final.

Penalty Scale
Warning
Level 1 Time Added to total race time
Level 2 moved lower position
Level 3 Disqualified from the round
Level 4 Team Disqualified from the Series

Quote from Arrow. :

Race Restarts
Can only be done by the server admin. If there is a server issue or is considered to be unfair start. Eg 50% crash lap
Vote restarting is not aloud

How about a simple "No" ?

Quote from Arrow. :

Pit Lane
Speeding in Pit Lane will result in a automatic drive through penalty.
Enter Pit lane and exit in a safe manor.

What about the lines? Can we cross them? (if nobody is passing atm)

Quote from Arrow. :

Chatting
Race: Chatting is not allowed. unless very important.

How will this be punished? time penalty per line?

I would also go for no restarts unless there is a server problem or the grid is in the wrong order. If 60% of the field crash then tough luck on them. In a long race there is still lots of time to make up positions. A rule that is not open to interpretation is less likely to cause argument.

Quote from Arrow. :

Race Restarts
Can only be done by the server admin. If there is a server issue or is considered to be unfair start. Eg 50% crash lap
Vote restarting is not aloud

I would go for no restarts at all. People is way more careful when knowing there is not a 2nd chance.

Quote from Arrow. :

Pit Lane
Speeding in Pit Lane will result in a automatic drive through penalty.
Enter Pit lane and exit in a safe manor.

You should elaborate this. Being able to cross the pit lane entry line, but NEVER the pit lane exit works in most series. Also, there should be special pit lane rules for the oval.

Quote from Arrow. :

Flags

• Yellow Flag: Caution Crash ahead, avoid overtaking until track is clear.

If overtaking is the only safe thing to do, I would allow it as long as the overtaking car gives back the position when the track is clear again.

Quote from Arrow. :

• Blue Flag: Drivers that are a lap down or receive the blue flag. Will need to move off the race line for the car behind. The lead car should not have lost any time. When passing. avoid erratic movements.

Moving off the line has never been a good idea. Makes for lapped drivers crossing the track from side to side. Just use common sense!

Quote from Arrow. :

When being overtaken, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.

So if Im being attacked I must give room to the overtaking car just so his crap line causing lag doesnt cause trouble? The attacking car should be the one being careful, not the defending one!

Quote from Arrow. :

Chatting
Practise: Chatting is allowed.
Qualifying: Chatting is allowed but should be kept to a minimum.
Race: Chatting is not allowed. unless very important.

I vote for no chatting at all in race. Chat = DT.

My 2c.

So to get this clear:

During qualy I'm allowed to bump draft behind my team mate to get a higher topspeed and thus a higher qualy position ?

Yellow flag:

Almost impossible to police a no overtaking rule. However, how about if someone causes a further accident in a yellow flag zone, especially if they hit someone who has slowed down to avoid an accident gets a penalty?

Quote from BurnOut69 :

I would go for no restarts at all. People is way more careful when knowing there is not a 2nd chance.

There has to be some circumstance where the race will be re-started. Last season we were racing fox at FE gold and the lag was horrible and about 90% of the field got taken out at T1 due to it. The race re-started on a different server.

Quote from Arrow. :

Cutting Inside of Corner
2wheels in grass: could possibly be given a penalties if there is a time advantage and is used consistently

I'm surprised because this is more onerous than the hotlap system. There are several places where it is normal for everyone to get a couple of wheels dirty, every chicane probably.

The hlvc checks for 2 wheels on track all the time - track includes curbs, fake grass stuff, rumble strips etc.

Quote from BurnOut69 :

So if Im being attacked I must give room to the overtaking car just so his crap line causing lag doesnt cause trouble? The attacking car should be the one being careful, not the defending one!

Yes I agree, the overtaker must be the one who takes care to make a fair racing pass on the overtakee. Track position must be respected. You cannot expect someone who is being pressured for position to leave extra space, it is up to the driver behind to overtake cleanly.

Quote from Arrow. :

You must cross finish line to receive points

Racing Conduct
Drivers must overtake in a safe and respectful manner. Drivers should have at least a half-car overlap on another car before committing to an overtaking maneuver.

When being overtaken, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.

I'm no fan of the hard line approach to DSC's. What if you;ve been driving for a hour, only 10laps from the finish & your connection drops through no fault of your own?? To receive no points at all would seem quite harsh imo.

Passing: Half a car overlap at what point?? The standard rule is @ point of turn in. Can we clarify this?

As for a driver being overtaken giving room: "You cannot expect someone who is being pressured for position to leave extra space, it is up to the driver behind to overtake cleanly."

Quote from Michel 4AGE :

So to get this clear:

During qualy I'm allowed to bump draft behind my team mate to get a higher topspeed and thus a higher qualy position ?

Yes of course it is.

What do you think yourself ?

Bump-Drafting should be outlawed, IMO at least, its just not racing and while it may be used in Nascar or similar, really it just doesnt happen, its not pleasent to watch and seeing it being abused to me is disappointing, but how do you enforce it?

2 wheels off the race track is racing, few series would punish for pushing the car in such a manner, however consistantly putting all 4 wheels on the grass and showing no real intention to do otherwise should result in punishment.

Disconnections, as i just mentioned in the scoring thread, maybe 50% of last place points should be awarded, its a deterrent to people deciding to leave during the race because they'd get half the points (or less) they would get if they stayed put, and anyone unlucky enough to be disconnected receives a minor consolation that doesnt punish the teams scoring too heavily.

Also agree completely with the comments about overtaking, both drivers should drive with caution, however the attacking driver is the one making the move, and it should be his responsibility to do so cleanly, obviously if the defending driver acts unfairly/unsportingly resulting in an incident then obviously its the defending drivers responsibility, they cant use this rule as an excuse to act unfairly and blame the attacker for not keeping it clean.


Last one, Submitting a complaint, i think that when a complaint is lodged against a driver, they should have the right to be informed of this and the opportunity to put their side of the story across. Agree that it should be kept out of public discussion, however i dont feel it is fair to be under review and have no right to defend yourself when the circumstances require it. If you view the incident, and consider it to be nonsense then you dont need to call the other driver in, however if your considering punishment the other party should have the ability to pass comment too.
I say this because if you pass an incident off as being no more than a racing accident/incident and the same thing happens again, with the other party feeling differently to how you felt about being on the receiving end of the same thing, then for one person to request punishment for something you've passed as being part and parcel of racing, it doesnt strike me as being fair. Nothing to do with payback, just different peoples interpretations and experience of an incident, each party should have a voice.

Of course it should, it was just to point out that common sense can be used.

Just because LFS tweak or something Isnt named in the rule set doesnt mean that you can power your way down bl1r straight with 1000 mph.

As you dont make it clear what 'of course it should' is in reference, ive no idea what your commenting on.

Kaw, if you want to use LFSTweak, you have my permission!
Good look getting into the server though

Kaw was replying on the bumpdrafting issue.

Imo Michel's comment is valid.
Anyway bumpdrafting isn't just for nascar, I know it used to be quiete common in the citroen saxo cup, if you have the patience watch the linky below for some catherham bumdrafting action, vid has that LFS reality feel to it. (right click-save as-takes a while)

http://supervroum.noalia.net/c ... py/bestofcaterham2005.wmv

Rules have been updated in above thread

Quote :

Qualifying
In Qualifying any form of contact is not allowed, eg Bumpdrafting

Quote :

When overtaking and defending, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.