Hi,

I use 2 sets of pedals, one set for brake, acel, and another for cluch and handbrake.

could we implement some kind of feature so the car stalls (when using a manual cluch). If you let your cluch out in 1st (with auto cluch NOT ON) with your brake on, the cluch stays on to save it from stalling!!

Not the most important features but a minor one
Cheers,

Quote from marsden1002 :

Hi,

I use 2 sets of pedals, one set for brake, acel, and another for cluch and handbrake.

could we implement some kind of feature so the car stalls. If you let your cluch out in 1st with your brake on, the cluch stays on to save it from stalling!!

Not the most important features but a minor one
Cheers,

That wont work, it would be quicker and easier to just use automatic clutch so everyone (most people) would just use that to save hasstle. You can't rule out automatic clutch becuase not all of use have 2 sets of pedals.... if even any pedals.

Quote from nikimere :

That wont work, it would be quicker and easier to just use automatic clutch so everyone (most people) would just use that to save hasstle. You can't rule out automatic clutch becuase not all of use have 2 sets of pedals.... if even any pedals.

Im not on about rule out auto cluch. Im saying when a manual cluch is chosen, the Auto cluch is still on, because the car DOES NOT stall, when you put it into first and let the cluch out.

Im all for auto cluch, but when it is turned off, let it stay off"

The clutch model just isnt completed yet

Quote from Blackout :

The clutch model just isnt completed yet

Indeed it isn't. I wish so much, that the clutch in the game would be actually all manual. As in, if you're in gear and you drop the clutch without giving gas, the engine should stall and shut down. Same thing for spinning 180 degrees, the game keeps the engine running by pressing clutch automatically, and frankly I hate it that way.

Quote from marsden1002 :

Im not on about rule out auto cluch

You might want to re-think your title then

I don't think stalling is in LFS. Sure you can turn off your engine, but the dynamic effects of stalling (the lurch) are not implemented, which is why the clutch is still a fudge...

Quote from Matrixi :

Indeed it isn't. I wish so much, that the clutch in the game would be actually all manual. As in, if you're in gear and you drop the clutch without giving gas, the engine should stall and shut down. Same thing for spinning 180 degrees, the game keeps the engine running by pressing clutch automatically, and frankly I hate it that way.

Also if you left off the gas at speed and downshift it wont slow, or as in my car throw your head through the window, its almost more effective than braking and a vital part of racing...that seems to be missing from the game.

Quote from DodgeRacer :

Also if you left off the gas at speed and downshift it wont slow, or as in my car throw your head through the window, its almost more effective than braking and a vital part of racing...that seems to be missing from the game.

2 words for improving your car: Seat Belts...
My car doesn't do that ever since I started blipping the throttle when downshifting to match the revs... In fact, people comment me on my smooth downshifting... Of course, that's about the point I get them acquainted with my upshifting and cornering skills to make them shut up

wow.. as if this hasnt been talked about enough..
would think the devs would have done something by S2? owell.. hopefully before S3

Quote from DodgeRacer :

or as in my car throw your head through the window, its almost more effective than braking and a vital part of racing...that seems to be missing from the game.

I feel really bad for your synchros. Learn how to shift.

As for it being "effective" in racing, its only useful in some situations.
-Your brakes aren't up to snuff and are fading/unable to max out the tires.
-You are attempting to make a change to the brake bias without actually having a bias adjustment. As in, you are trying to add braking to the front or rear.
LFS does indeed simulate the additional engine braking effect of downshifting.

Most driver schools scold students for downshifting too aggressively and early while braking. Its a bad thing for smoothness and threshold braking.

returning back to the main problem.
i also hate that lfs gives an autmatic clutchkick when the rev is too low.
there should be an option at the help screen to turn that off and let the engine stall. or if the "engine stall feature" is not programmed yet, then just give it an engine stop command instead a cluchkick(as someone did this using an outgauge program. /didnt work for me :S/), but if the car is moving and the shutted engine starts spinnig again when the driver shifts down one or two gears, it should start again. thats not the best way to solve this but would be more realistic than how it is now. also who likes it coud still use it because its an option on the help screen. i think this is not a big deal for the devs and many racers would be very happy with this small improvement (but at least ME D). this would be still compatible with the actual phisycs, wouldnt affect the laptimes.

btw my girfriend is going for her drivers license and often practising on lfs (im using dfp + cluch +ffshifter + homemade hadbrake) AND I CANT TELL HER ENOUGH TIMES: "USE THE CLUTCH WHEN YOU STOP THE CAR WHILE THE SHIFTER IS IN GEAR, OR YOUR ENGINE WILL STALL IN REAL LIFE!!!!" and things like that. she replies that she cant understand or askig why. she says she will try to use it but always forget because this autoclutch helps her. aah i hate this feature. DD

+1

Looking forward to the completed clutch model. Should make stupid starts very interesting

"MOVE ***HOLE!!!"

"Sorry! Sorry! I stalled!!! "

lol :hyper:

some emends i was thinking, when u depress cluch and not press gas pedal when gear is engaged, lfs could press [I = ignition] and turn the engine off... "simple" could add some realism to the game.

Yeah, but if stalling is implemented, the clutch is too (infinitely) strong; invincible. Right now, if you wind the RB4 up and drop the clutch in 2nd gear, the clutch will just grab solid and make your tach needle bounce off the pin. If you could stall it, i'd rather burn the clutch a little to be honest (this being a sim).

On a similar note, 4wd shouldn't always be faster at starting than 2wd. There's no way a stock clutch can take more torque than four tyres before slipping.

what about
manual clutch (with stalling)
semi-manual/automatic clutch (you must clutch for shifting, but it will not stall)
automatic clutch (you've never have to touch the clutch button (however it may be handy ))

I also would really like to see the clutch model improved and finalized. However; I want to see those running auto-clutch stall every now and then. For instance, when you spin out the car it should be fairly likely that the car will stall. Auto-clutch should not equate to "perfect clutch". We need to give some advantage to people who go to the trouble to do these things for themselves instead of having the computer handle everything.

but what about those people with mouses/KBs would be a pain having to press a clutch then change gear, and I dont fancy using an auto -1

Quote from Xaid0n :

but what about those people with mouses/KBs would be a pain having to press a clutch then change gear, and I dont fancy using an auto -1

I have been button-clutching with mouse & KB since 2002, and I "heel-toe." It's the fastest method. If moving your finger is a pain, what's moving your whole leg? illepall

P.S. FYI you change gear ahead of time and hit the clutch key when you're ready to shift.

Don't bash it before you try it.

Quote from wark :

I have been button-clutching with mouse & KB since 2002, and I "heel-toe." It's the fastest method. If moving your finger is a pain, what's moving your whole leg? illepall

P.S. FYI you change gear ahead of time and hit the clutch key when you're ready to shift.

Don't bash it before you try it.

I wish button clutch was removed. People should use a pedals for clutch or auto clutch. A button does not simulate a clutch in any way and can be used to speed up clutch times.

Quote from Woz :

I wish button clutch was removed. People should use a pedals for clutch or auto clutch. A button does not simulate a clutch in any way and can be used to speed up clutch times.

Most race clutches are damn near on/off switches anyway....like a button. While I think most everyone would prefer to use a proper clutch pedal, offering a clutch button at least allows people to clutch for themselves, should they choose to. Removing it would be a mistake.

I see no problem with a button clutch, especially if Scawen fixes the clutch code to allow stalling, to prevent clutching after shifting, to simulate missed gears, etc.

Quote from Woz :

I wish button clutch was removed. People should use a pedals for clutch or auto clutch. A button does not simulate a clutch in any way and can be used to speed up clutch times.

At least I can always shift without clutching. ;]

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I see no problem with a button clutch, especially if Scawen fixes the clutch code to allow stalling, to prevent clutching after shifting, to simulate missed gears, etc.

Missing gears is usually driver error. Who wants random errors generated by the software? Not me. If I miss a gear it should be because I really missed the gear or because I have mistreated my gearbox over the course of the race, not because the God of racing karma struck me with lightning. The same could be said for stalling using the button clutch. How is it fair that some random racer will be affected while others aren't? Stalling is also usually driver error. If racers ever have to suffer random computer-generated driving errors in a race sim then it will be less of a simulator and be more like some simulation. Very little happens without something causing it to. Driver errors should remain a skill-based fault, not decided by some algorithm.

2c

Quote from Gunn :

Missing gears is usually driver error. Who wants random errors generated by the software? Not me. If I miss a gear it should be because I really missed the gear or because I have mistreated my gearbox over the course of the race, not because the God of racing karma struck me with lightning. The same could be said for stalling using the button clutch. How is it fair that some random racer will be affected while others aren't? Stalling is also usually driver error. If racers ever have to suffer random computer-generated driving errors in a race sim then it will be less of a simulator and be more like some simulation. Very little happens without something causing it to. Driver errors should remain a skill-based fault, not decided by some algorithm.

I'm not talking about random failures at all. I'm talking about missing a gear because of releasing the clutch before the cogs were engaged or trying to shift when the clutch isn't in (and the gears aren't properly meshed). Right now you can change gears THEN press the clutch button and it works perfectly. That should not happen. Ditto for stalling. A real car will stall if you spin and don't push the clutch in quickly enough. In LFS the auto clutch is basically instantaneous and never fails to depress fast enough (since it's instant AND the car cannot stall). Once stalling is implemented the auto clutch needs to still be fallible. It should not be able to instantly catch. In a slow, lazy spin...sure. In a quick wipeout...no. It needs to have a "reaction time" just like a real driver would. If you use a real clutch pedal or a button clutch, you need to clutch in time to prevent stalling when spinning. The same thing should be simulated for auto clutch.

Maybe that feature would render the autoclutch obsolete ?

I'd like to see stalling if clutch wasn't disengaged quickly enough during a spin. I agree that would add realism and skill.