Ive been waiting for this for ages, after all this is claimed to be a simulator.
As long as its a server side option i see no problem

Quote :

The Way It's NOT Meant To Be Played

I actual laughed of this

Think a startup screen on LFS :

The way it was meant to be played
(Unless you use mouse, keyboard, gamepad, chase-veiw-driving or automatic gears then you NOT PLAYING IT THE WAY IT`S MEANT TO BE PLAYED!)

I agree that its a fair thing for leagues, I for one would have to adjust because I use the front wheels view. The only reason I use that is because I don't even have a wheel, let alone a force feedback one, so I need to see what the car is doing rather than feel it.

But going from wheel veiw to cockpit veiw is easier than going from chase-veiw to cockpit veiw
It`s completely differernt things, and how things are put in perspective.

But, as I said, probally just have to accept it, but I do hope the host on most servers do understand that disalowing custom veiws will take away alot of joy from at least some drivers.

I never understood why chase view is used, its not exactly Gran Turismo is it. I think you will find your times drop by some way if you adjust to a cockpit view, chase view gives you very little idea of where your car is pointing.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

I never understood why chase view is used, its not exactly Gran Turismo is it. I think you will find your times drop by some way if you adjust to a cockpit view, chase view gives you very little idea of where your car is pointing.

But then again, someone even said earlier that we had advantages by using chase-view, so now at least we can confirm this is not true.
And then - it`s ok that we try to make LFS the most realistic sim out there, but it`s up to yourself how realistic you want it

And yes yes, I understand that there still will be servers for us Arcade racers, but I just thinked it was kind of .. not fun.. to allways have to scroll down to the less-popular servers and combo`s to race the way you have been used to from the begining.

Should be another option... (indifferent)

But, I'll just come at this from the other angle and say that (...warning, 1 cent opinion approaching...) if you think wheels view gives you an advantage, then why not use that view?

Let's be reminded guys, we're still playing an alpha product, with a fluid feature list dictated by Scawen- things are being added and taken away all the time.

Quote from The Very End :

...then I DEMAND a option where you can force people to use 3th person veiw.
How you like that?....(

3th person view is not realistic

Quote from NitroNitrous :

3th person view is not realistic

Point in this discussion, or at least from my side - it`s not about whats realistics, it`s about taking away a choise that someone has been using from the start of LFS.
And it was just to point out, that all the cockpit view user also would scream out, probally much MUCH more higher if there suddently was a option that said the was not allowed to do so.

But again, this is up to the server host to deside, lets hope they have mercy upon us arcade racers.

i use cockpit view, but i do not agree with forcing views

thats not necessary, in my point of view, a custom camera does not make a big difference on the driver performance, it just make the driving more confortable

but, after all it makes no difference

If I understood correctly, this "force cockpit view" forces to use the default cockpit view.

I see two problems:

- as I was searching for the most realistic view, I noticed one important thing is to get a realistic sense of speed. Default cockpit view does not give this unless you greatly increase FOV and then everything gets distorted. But there are ways to get a realistic sense of speed with a moderate FOV, rotating down the view to see more road, moving the camera a bit higher and forward to see less cockpit. It depends what you want...default cockipt view gives a realistic picture, but not a realistic sense of speed. I think sense of speed is more important than picture.
Then, for me forcing default cockpit view is not realistic The fact that we are sitting in front of a screen requires some adjustements. Default cockpit view would be absolutely realistic with a 180 degrees spherical or at least cylindrical display.

- I use two monitors, I suppose I am not the only one. I need to rotate the view, otherwise monitor frames are exactly in the line and it is undrivable. With default cockpit view I can't rotate the view...I just can't play LFS unless I use one monitor, and it is a pity to have the best sim be the only one not allowing me to play with 2 monitors.

Quote :

it`s about taking away a choise that someone has been using from the start of LFS.

For some, it's taking away a choice, and for others, it's creating a new option. Personally, I would find it really bothersome if every server I visited started dictating what kind of view I should be racing with, but I don't think that will happen.

Quote from The Very End :

But again, this is up to the server host to deside, lets hope they have mercy upon us arcade racers.

You're right, so why the complaining towards the devs on this? I don't think the issue here is whether this is a good idea, because it is an option, and it certainly will be useful for some servers. The issue is whether all servers will use forced cockpit view. So instead of complaining about the devs making this optional change, perhaps we could get a discussion between server hosts going, ask them what they think instead of just speculating. I would think that the majority of servers will leave things as they are, and a minority will force cockpit views. If too many force it, and numbers on the servers decline, people running these servers may decide to change back to allowing all views. Things usually work out in the end...

This is the reason as to why I said no.
Some of us also don't have 2 or 3 monitors to see stuff either, and need as much view as we can get.

Which do you prefer?

Everyone having the same view to make it equal, and possibly dropping 25% or more of the racers who can't handle that much of an FPS drop, and will cause a ton of crashes because they can't see anything.
Or
Leave it the way it is, and keep all of the racers, and give people more freedom to choose as they wish and be able to have cleaner races.

Quote from XCNuse :

This is the reason as to why I said no.
Some of us also don't have 2 or 3 monitors to see stuff either, and need as much view as we can get.

Which do you prefer?

Everyone having the same view to make it equal, and possibly dropping 25% or more of the racers who can't handle that much of an FPS drop, and will cause a ton of crashes because they can't see anything.
Or
Leave it the way it is, and keep all of the racers, and give people more freedom to choose as they wish and be able to have cleaner races.

To me it seems like you're suggesting that all servers will use forced cockpit view. Servers are created and changed to meet the needs of those who play LFS. There will be a demand for servers without forced cockpit view, and I don't see why this demand wouldn't be met by those running servers.

Quote from The Very End :

Thats the best comment I have heard all day, and it sums up this whole discussion / talk.
It`s up to everyone how realistic they want to do thngs, but let us poor poor arcade racers have the choise to not have it the super realistic way.

This game is supposed to be about realism, if you want to have arcade experience, you're playing wrong game.

And I voted no. I think this one of the least important things to make LFS more hardcore. Disabling chase view would be smarter, custom wheels view is not exactly that much less realistic, it's just about personal preference. I personally use cockpit. Btw, if you made cockpit view with custom view option, you couldn't use that on a server with this option enabled?

Like somebody already suggest, removing F9, F10 screens, Shift+P and removing some of the interface display while driving, would be a lot more essential. And how about these few DRIVING AIDS in LFS (talking about auto throttle cut/blip and brake help). I'm not even sure does Scawen want to make that step closer to more hardcore approach... all these things just have been in LFS for so long already.

Quote from Michael Denham :

To me it seems like you're suggesting that all servers will use forced cockpit view. Servers are created and changed to meet the needs of those who play LFS. There will be a demand for servers without forced cockpit view, and I don't see why this demand wouldn't be met by those running servers.

It can go either way.

While this may be nice for league servers and teams etc. that doesn't keep it from being used on normal racing servers, and I can see it being used and just making a mess out of everything.

I'm slightly indifferent, while it would be nice for leagues, I personally do not want to see it on public servers.

It's only an option. Admins can choose to force it, or not. The world's not coming to an end, people .

I don't know, LFS is supposed to be a simulator of real life, right? So why would you race with chase view anyway? The closer LFS gets to being like real life, the more things will be added that people won't agree with because it makes it harder for them to race.

I don't have 3 monitors and I see everything just fine, I'm also able to judge where cars are around me from the sound, which I gather isn't the same for chase view.

So I say keep it and I doubt the devs will remove it either. Anyway, as many have said, if the server is forcing the cockpit view just don't race there.

Quote from deggis :

I'm not even sure does Scawen want to make that step closer to more hardcore approach... all these things just have been in LFS for so long already.

I doubt he does want to go too hardcore now.

Take netKar pro as an example, forget the bugs it has...even if it was flawless online i still doubt there would be a huge market for it as there just aren't enough people that want that level of hardcore racing. It's simply not a viable commercial option these days imho.

I know Scawens not out to get on the rich list with LFS, but going too hardcore reduces the market for his product, and therefore his income, significantly.

It's a good option for AutoX, where I think it was intended and quickly applied.
I think it's good for AutoX because it's rather important to position your car between the cones and not knock them over. If you can see all your wheels at the same time it's huge advantage over more simulation way of approach.

I m against forcing the view since it is something very personal and it don't really make someone better on the track!

Even if we consider that the view should be as realistic as possible it is all wrong since it is an unrealistic view (IMO)! And it give different result (more or less realistic) depending on the screen(s) you're using! A way to move the camera inside the cockpit is indispensable to tailor the result to our needs in term of realism. The way it 's right now it should have never been implemented.

what's next? a compulsory detector to see if we wear an helmet while we're driving?

Quote from Blackout :

It's a good option for AutoX, where I think it was intended and quickly applied.
I think it's good for AutoX because it's rather important to position your car between the cones and not knock them over. If you can see all your wheels at the same time it's huge advantage over more simulation way of approach.

That's it exactly. I asked Scawen if there was a way to force cockpit view for the autox event because we thought it was important and he said it could be done in insim but would be very complicated, so he implemented this. I am glad it's in there for the autocross event, as knowing the boundaries of your car when you cannot see them is one of the big challenges of autocross in real life. As for other things mentioned in this thread (regarding racing LFS in general), I guess we'll see what happens and see what works best for everybody, which I'm sure Scawen has in mind.

Less arcade, more simulation.