because i am fed up to the teeth with seeing people (including myself, i ain't no alien) being voted off a server because...

their mates did so they do too.....
their teammate told them too on teamspeak......
don't recognise the name XXXX, so vote yes to kick/ban them...
they don't like the name, so vote yes also
exetera...
exetera...

... some people vote without even seeing (or knowing) the reasons why the ban was first applied for

i am not dissing the vote system, as we do need it, what i'm trying to say is that people need to be a lot more resposible for their actions before they join the voting frenzy.

i'm sure there are admins out there that are fed up to the teeth with going through MPR's of the percentage of people whom could be bothered to appeal as i'm sure that if such a system was in place, any bans dished out would be just - therefore, far less appeals in the first place


if in a race of 20 two people collide, driver A votes driver B, vote frenzy ensues, leading within a few seconds to 8 people voting and driver B gets kick/banned. After going through the process of complaint, it turns out that driver A was in the wrong for ramming driver B so the ban is overturned, should all the 8 people whom voted be penalised for wasting admins time?

so heres the question, is the current voting system just, or do we need to make voters more responsible for the votes they dish out?

thoughts - ideas anyone ? open for discussion

I just disable kick/ban voting.

I'm not sure how you could possibly tell if they were voting for a valid reason or "just because" without watching the replay anyway. And if you want the server admins to punish the false voters, you're giving them even more work than they already have!

It would be nice if you couldn't start a kick/ban vote without a few words of justification (like "/1 kick myname wrecking"), but then you couldn't really do that as quickly during a race as just clicking a button.

Kind of goes back to this thread here.

But no, you certainly can't say "oh.. such and such didn't see what happened so .. he can't vote anymore."

Sounds like the voting process in Russia (I think it was Russia?) half a century ago where gaurds stood overtop of the voters and if they voted "wrong" they would be killed.

I have only seen once a vote go through because of stupid reasons. It was when I entered a public server with 2 other connections and they wanted the server to themselves instead of creating their own. I was votebanned immediately upon entry.

I race with many folks and get to know many folks. If I see someone from CoRe, noobs, LOTF, or the many individuals that I've been racing with for 2+ years vote, I can be sure there is a reason and am willing to vote along with them. If some random racer whom I don't know votes, then I can't take their word because I don't know them and can only vote if I've seen the incident or have seen incidents previous to that.

Very rarely do I see vote bans/kicks finished off from people just blindly pressing 1.

lol XCNuse i liked the comment on the russian guards lmao, tho i wasn't thinking of anything so Draconian maybe something like +1/-1 votepoints or something similar, i dunno.....

i never saw that post b4, maybe i should learn to use the search button before i throw my dummy out of the pram next time ...:biggrinfl

Quote from quackdougal :

lol XCNuse i liked the comment on the russian guards lmao, tho i wasn't thinking of anything so Draconian

It was a good suggestion, that's why I remember it.

Quote :

if you want the server admins to punish the false voters, you're giving them even more work than they already have!

Admins who enable vote banning aren't adminning, they're letting their racers do it for them. I personally think any admin who admins from the drivers seat is a bad admin, so giving this power to racers is really daft.

The best advise I can give you is to stick to servers that have either admins who spectate or who operate a reporting policy rather than vote bans.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Admins who enable vote banning aren't adminning, they're letting their racers do it for them. I personally think any admin who admins from the drivers seat is a bad admin, so giving this power to racers is really daft.

The best advise I can give you is to stick to servers that have either admins who spectate or who operate a reporting policy rather than vote bans.

thanks for that Becky, i will certainly keep that in mind when looking for a server to play on. TBH i cant wait till CTRA is back up again, its been the longest month in my life lmao. I am quite simply the worst driver by my own admmision, meaning i will never get anywhere near your times, prolly because alot of the time i'm racing with a RACE_S set (i hate scrounging, & inferno sets i dont get on with - period), but noone can ever say that i am not courteus, i race cleanly, very rarely i have actually caused an accident, and i move over for everybody not just blue fags (prolly just cos i'm at that stage where i'm gaining confidence, lmao). it has taken me months just to get 66.6% of my bronze so a silver licence to me is just a pipe dream, but never-the-less, CTRA servers for me was the place to be . happy times lol, sheesh, i'm the guy that initially thought that copper licence was a policeman (& i bet i wasn't the only one either ) lmao

Quote from mrodgers :

If I see someone from CoRe, noobs, LOTF, or the many individuals that I've been racing with for 2+ years vote, I can be sure there is a reason and am willing to vote along with them.

My point exactly, blind voting
(3rd in my list - don't recognise the name XXXX, so vote yes to kick/ban them...)

anyways i have no intention of starting a flamewar, this is the improvement suggestions forum and i feel the vote system needs inproveing, so i was asking for suggestions, anybody?

I only ever vote if I see an incident occur and can actually see who was to blame (on T1 for example there are so many shunts and nudges that you don't really know who made the first contact until you look at the replay).

Whether I recognise the name or not, if I didn't see it I can't know what happened. Is it fair someone gets banned because someone you know makes a mistake? I don't think so.

I'm hoping that once proper damage has been added, the number of drivers pushing beyond their limits will decrease, so the number of accidents and subsequent kick/ban votes will too.
I don't think it's the voting system that's at fault, it's the people who use it without thinking.

Quote from quackdougal :

My point exactly, blind voting
(3rd in my list - don't recognise the name XXXX, so vote yes to kick/ban them...)

No, not your 3rd in the list. It could be said to be your first on the list. All I'm saying is that I have been racing with the likes of Banshee, RMachucaA, CWMax, th84, Marsh2a, bdshan, the Sheppard father/son combo, Deadwolfbones, Viruz, (and many others I fail to list) since the start of the S2 demo release. I know these folks and how they both race and run their own servers. I know if I see a vote initiated by any of them, that there is a damn good reason they initiated a vote, thus I know I can go along with that. What is wrong with that? If I see you particularly in a server and see you initiate a vote, then certainly I won't vote unless I've seen something because I have no idea who you are and how you race or admin a server.

I can say that up there, because I know those folks. I do know there are others out there who are not as responsible as these folks and would vote for ridiculous and unfair reasons and their teammates/friends would follow suit. Not everyone is the same and I happen to feel that the folks I prefer to see on the servers are the top notch of LFS. Thus I know that their judgement can be trusted when a vote is seen initiated by them.

like others say, disable kick/ban votes as if the server cannot be admined properly then it shouldnt be up, alsoi would like to see them allow only vote kick which would be better than both kick and ban but that has been talked about many times before so i will leave it there

I appologise MrRogers if you think i offended you, that was never the intent though i do commend your honesty to vote as such. I would never question your integrity but even you must have seen in your years here that the current system as is, is open to abuse. i won't pretend to know the people that you listed, but one name did stand out, that was th84 - i remember him asking me if i wanted a set and he even took time out to spectate me and give me pointers where i was going wrong, was a good night. top geezer . if all the others you mention are of the same calibre then i'm surely missing out on some good quality racing.

i personally avoid clan servers like the plague tho because of past experiences with voting (how the hell is some noob with s2 for 2 days expected to know that RR server was for pro's only, LOL) so i tend to join private servers with just a few peeps on them, or god forbid, drift servers (i can't drift either lol). But even here i see the voting problems, probably moreso, what with voting frenzys, wrong person being kicked, etc. its getting to a point where "he who votes first, wins"

Turning off voting on server is a work around i guess,as is avoiding non-adminned servers, but its not a solution to the vote system in s2 final.

i was thinking of something like this....
give all s1 - s2 licence holders lets say +10 votepoints, when a person is kicked/banned from a server, the replay & reason (+list of voters) is saved locally and on host. if the person challenges the ban & wins then all voters lose 5 votepoints. if you reach minus-number votepoints then you cannot vote untill you get back to positive no's. increment votepoints by one per day (maximum of 10). info could be sent to lfs automatically when admin clicks un-ban. obviously this wouldn't work on a demo server, but hey - more reason to buy a licence

i shouldn't think this would be a problem for all you guys with good integrity, i would expect you guys to have 10 votepoints at all times, i'm thinking more of the little servers where admins are not available and all the anon (clanless/teamless) drivers are voting willy nilly for the hell of it because they can, lol

dont flame me, its just a suggestion

Quote from quackdougal :

I appologise MrRogers if you think i offended you, that was never the intent though i do commend your honesty to vote as such. I would never question your integrity but even you must have seen in your years here that the current system as is, is open to abuse.

Definitely no offence taken. I was just stating what I do, which could be one of your listed faults of the system. But as you can see, not everyone blindly votes for no reason and there are those who group together, but aren't "responsible" enough to have the vote option available...

Quote :

i won't pretend to know the people that you listed, but one name did stand out, that was th84 - i remember him asking me if i wanted a set and he even took time out to spectate me and give me pointers where i was going wrong, was a good night. top geezer . if all the others you mention are of the same calibre then i'm surely missing out on some good quality racing.

OMG! Did I have th84's name in there?!? I was specifically thinking "don't include th, don't include th..." when compiling that list and inadvertantly put his name in there! LOL, no seriously, th84 and I have been racing together since before S2 when we both had the S1 demo. Yes, the others indeed are of the same caliber. Just don't get on too friendly of terms with th84 or he may start stalking you around every server you join . Though, haven't seen much of him lately....

During my times (which may be the same as your times as I often see folks from Australia when I'm on) I just don't see much abuse of the vote system. I have never had or seen a problem on Redline servers, since you mentioned that server and there has been much "talk" on the adminning of those servers in the forum, nor any other proper racing server I have visited. You mention drift servers, which I'm sure would be a problem. Drift servers are littered with the "younger" folk who aren't mature enough to play with others it seems (disclaimer: not all drift servers or drifters, there is a separate "community" of drifters whom I'm sure plays with maturity and fun in mind. From what I understand, you can search for lfs-torqued and find them).

Getting rid of the vote options would probably be wise as I could see how it would be abused with the amount of racers during peak UK/European times though. Over here in the US though, it really isn't a problem. Just sounds to me like the ratio of proper racers vs. the kid gamers messing around on the servers is much higher than during peak times.