Fair enough, but I think most people prefer one big post to 2 or 3 medium-sized ones...

(just thought I'd slot one in before you tripled again )

Quote :

I honestly think if you need these assists, then you should use them like in a real car. In real life if you can't change your gears, you go buy a Buick Lesabre with a automatic transmission. I doubt that person will be able to drive a Formula 1 car.

turn your automatic into a manual with a clutch and operate it flawlessly for you.

Note that until this last season, Formula 1 cars had computer controlled automatic shifting of their sequential gear boxes. Now they use the equivalent of XTRAC no lift sequential shifters, which change gears in 30ms to 50ms, and worth about 1 or 2 seconds per lap over a normal manually shifted tranny.

Formula 1's still have traction control, but it's limited to engine / ECU only. Other race classes allow invidual wheel braking to assist with traction control. IRL drivers can adjust the traction control while on board. Note that racing traction control systems allows some slippage for optimal cornering, something that a driver might be able to do for a qualifying lap, but not for an entire race.

I cannot think of a racing series anywhere in the world that allows anti-lock brakes, as far as I know ABS systems are banned in every motor sport series the globe over.

Traction control is another matter, there may be some argument for allowing it on some road cars and on F1's.

To be frank I struggled to control the F1 pulling away from the line on my steering wheel until I upgraded my computer, you need a computer capable of running the game at a high framerate (especially at the race start) in order to pull away without loosing it too wheelspin.

Before saying keyboard players need traction control i'd personally like to know the opinion of a keyboard player who has a system which handles the game at 50/60fps when looking at a full grid of cars ahead, before I formed an opnion on whether it's really necessary.

Not that my own opinion counts for much anyway .

FYI - FO8 not F1. OK?

F1 is now V8 so why not

Using traction control and anti-lock is gay. That is why i bought the game. Its a challenge like real racing, after all its a SIMULATOR.

Also the FO8's are way too INDY car like. We need the high teck 2006-2007 racers.

@NotAnIllusion: coz it's NOT! FO8s don't have 750hp and they barely hit 300kph...

Rappa Z, I thought straight people invented trac control and ABS

Quote from Rappa Z :

Using traction control and anti-lock is gay. That is why i bought the game. Its a challenge like real racing, after all its a SIMULATOR.

ARGHAGRHRH!!!

1.) VBulletin is complete shit forum software and I have lost so many god damn posts "invalid thread specified." Here is the third ****ing time I am typing this post and it is significantly shorter and unfortunatly probably makes less sense. GRRRR! I am copy pasteing this one!!!


2.) Some of you like Rappa Z are not reading what the **** I am saying and keep giving out this BS excuse that "traction control and anti-lock is gay" (Speaking of which, even though traction control and anti-lock both utilize wheel speed sensors, they are different systems, thus making them heterosexual, if it was maybe anti-lock and anti-lock, they are the same system, THEN they would in essence be homosexual )


Ok back to the point, you people make it out as if traction control and ABS will ****ing destroy LFS and turn it into need for speed. NO!!!!!!


If you would read some of my posts what I am suggesting DOES turn these systems into something that makes LFS more challenging and realistic.

Right now LFS will shift manual gears for you, perfectly. Even in cars like the GTR's and the F08!!! Adding REALISTIC assists ON THE APPROPRIATE CARS ONLY and doing away with the magic carpet bullshit WE ALREADY HAVE NOW, can only make LFS more of a simulator! More of a challenge!

As Rappa Z says: "after all its a SIMULATOR."

"after all its a SIMULATOR. " - Rappa Z
"after all its a SIMULATOR. " - Rappa Z
"after all its a SIMULATOR. " - Rappa Z

And I suppose you want to keep it a simulator by keeping the current assists that turn the F08 and the GTR's in a magic carpet eh? Rappa Z?


Here is what I am basically saying, what I said before, repeated so you all aren't under the false impression I am trying to make LFS "less challenging" and more like Need For SPeed.

Quote from me :

Instead of saying "ADD ABS and traction controll and automatics," how about I say:

"REMOVE the assists from the real race cars and fit them only to appropriate race cars, give servers the ability to disallow these assists, and on the few cars that remain, make them more realistic. Instead of it shifting manual gears with a clutch perfectly, make it behave like a REAL automatic, REAL ABS, REAL TC"

Maybe I will repeat it a few times so people don't keep missing it and getting a false impression!

Quote from me :

Instead of saying "ADD ABS and traction controll and automatics," how about I say:

"REMOVE the assists from the real race cars and fit them only to appropriate race cars, give servers the ability to disallow these assists, and on the few cars that remain, make them more realistic. Instead of it shifting manual gears with a clutch perfectly, make it behave like a REAL automatic, REAL ABS, REAL TC"

Quote from me :

Instead of saying "ADD ABS and traction controll and automatics," how about I say:

"REMOVE the assists from the real race cars and fit them only to appropriate race cars, give servers the ability to disallow these assists, and on the few cars that remain, make them more realistic. Instead of it shifting manual gears with a clutch perfectly, make it behave like a REAL automatic, REAL ABS, REAL TC"

Quote from me :

Instead of saying "ADD ABS and traction controll and automatics," how about I say:

"REMOVE the assists from the real race cars and fit them only to appropriate race cars, give servers the ability to disallow these assists, and on the few cars that remain, make them more realistic. Instead of it shifting manual gears with a clutch perfectly, make it behave like a REAL automatic, REAL ABS, REAL TC"

Quote from me :

Instead of saying "ADD ABS and traction controll and automatics," how about I say:

"REMOVE the assists from the real race cars and fit them only to appropriate race cars, give servers the ability to disallow these assists, and on the few cars that remain, make them more realistic. Instead of it shifting manual gears with a clutch perfectly, make it behave like a REAL automatic, REAL ABS, REAL TC"

Quote from Hankstar :

Rappa Z, I thought straight people invented trac control and ABS

Who knows, they could have been gay, but I don't really care, just as long as the TC and ABS in the car behind me don't start ****ing each other when I decide to slow for a stop sign.

LOL

Just so you know I agree with you modenaf1.

Especially about the proper auto in the appropriate cars.

The problem is that ABS/TC would make certain aspects of LFS easier. I guess I just put it out of my head that certain helps are already in there. Personally (this should start a war I would like to see them gone. It says right on the LFS site: "blah blah blah YOU have to do the driving" (paraphrase). It never occured to me until I read this thread that the faster players could be using driver aids. I think you should have to learn how to control the car in all ways and not be able to "over drive" the car just because of driver aids, which no matter how you look at it, is the end result. Finesse should be mandatory, and the aids take away the necessity of it to some degree no matter what. Keep LFS as visceral as can be.

Quote from modenaf1 :

magic carpet bullshit

Wow, this was a very original description of, well, anything.

modena, might I suggest you try some decaf?

Your previous post/rant was mostly an annoying waste of space and won't win you many fans, regardless of how valid your points are. And everyone has difficulties with bb software sometimes, try not to take it personally and go off half-cocked.

FTR I understand what you're saying, BTW.

Quote :

I cannot think of a racing series anywhere in the world that allows anti-lock brakes, as far as I know ABS systems are banned in every motor sport series the globe over.

Technically not ABS, but some racing classes allow computerized braking control. Unlike an ABS system the computerized braking control systems, allow some slippage for optimal grip. In addition, some traction control systems use individual wheel braking in addition to ecu engine control.

You wanted an example, so here's one. The Dutch Supercar Challenge series has no restrictions at all except power/weight ratios which determines the class. Active suspensions, independent braking and traction control on all 4 wheels, XTRAC no lift sequential shifters.

Quote from filur :

Wow, this was a very original description of, well, anything.

:uglyhamme

Quote from RacingSimFan :

Before you all reach for your torches and pitchforks, let me say I'm suggesting this for the benefit of our good and talented non-wheel racers.

I believe the root of the rather heated debate in the General Discussion forum about Wheel vs. Keyboard/Mouse stems from the issue of car control. Without analog input, keyboard drivers in particular are at a disadvantage with regards to control of the 'torquier' cars like FO8 and FOX.

So what I propose is the simple addition of options for traction control and anti-lock brakes for the 'racing cars' only. The 'road cars' would not have these features as they are less of a handful to manage.

This would not be in any way like the full-blown wuss aids featured in other games that magically make cars more stable and almost arcadish in behavior. The kind of options we loathe with a passion.

This would be a realistic and professional application of 2 common, real-life electronic management devices. And of course, TC and ABS could be disabled by the server admin to provide a more 'honorable' challenge for those that seek it.

But wouldn't it be wonderful if we could help everyone get the most out of the cars and tracks offered in LFS. Hell not even us wheelers can control the FO8 100% of the time. With traction control on that car we could use it on more than just the oval and actually focus more on racing and less on keeping the damn thing pointed in the right direction. And our friends on keyboards and mice could join us as many right now avoid the high-HP cars due to control issues.

Before you all condemn this idea outright, just stop and think for a second. Just maybe instead of dumbing down the competition, we might actually raise it up by doing this.

Just a thought.

Come on people....

There is Need For Speed, for one who think that wants to "drive" with keeboard, or something.....

Why dont U buy wheel?

The only car that neads TC is BF1.. because realisticly IT USES TC!


How many drivers can handle BF1 without TC?(besides that ugly red ferrari driver).


Otherwise. NO AIDS unless the perticular car absalutly requires it! (or unless the track becomes SOPPINGWET or COVERED IN ICE!!!!!!!) <-- lol


EDIT: Perhaps only add aids for Keyboarders!

Quote from AleksejBASOwarrior :

Come on people....

There is Need For Speed, for one who think that wants to "drive" with keeboard, or something.....

Why dont U buy wheel?

Thats mean.. we want to race as real ass affordably we can!

Im a mouser. I hate NFS / Driver1/2/ Gran Tourismo /ScudRace / Colin McRae / Blank Sushie!


If I had money for a wheel... id get one...

dont forget about poor people!

Quote from CodieMorgan :

How many drivers can handle BF1 without TC?

Most people. I can and I'm certainly not a terribly quick or good driver. Am I as confident with the throttle or as quick without it is another matter.

Quote from CodieMorgan :

If I had money for a wheel... id get one...

An acceptable second hand FF wheel can be had off ebay for less than half the price of LFS