Well, i'm a cockpit view driver, aslways been, so i'm honestly not worried about the possible use of this option on servers.

I "get" it tho.
It would "suck" to be forced to drive on any other view, since i like the cockpit one.

But, and that's a big but, aside the LX servers and some other autocross ones...

Does ANY other server is using this OPTION?
Guess not.
So, it's not the end of the world.

And yeah, other servers could turn on this option in the future but then "we" should just stop driving there. That's the way the world works.
If the server gets empty, the owner will turn it off soon enough.
If not and there is such a demand for servers with it turned off, don't you guys think such servers would be created?

I think it's a fairly simple option and not enough to be "mad" about.

Anyway, as you can see now (some time after the option has been made available) pretty much NO server is using it.
Either because there's no adjustments available on the FCV (which there should be, really) or because there's not enough demand for the option.
So... it's "all good", who wants to drive on the cockpit view can do it and others can do otherwise. Nothing has changed, apart from a new option, really.

Let's all be friends again...

EDIT: and i'm sorry, i thought i was posting on the X10 (was it this one?) thread, the one about the inclusion of the FCV option, and not the spinoff specific thread.
heck yeah, i do fully agree with the idea of some adjustments on the FCV. +1 from me, if that counts for anything, heh

Quote from Meanie :

Does ANY other server is using this OPTION?

Yes, Dead Men Racing. So far the people that have joined and left because of FCV is insignificant. There is an 'F' in the server list and we have a bloody great message saying 'FORCED COCKPIT' on the motd. Numbers of visitors don't seem to have dropped. There are more people that leave because 'wind sucks' than fcv. It's a storm in a teacup as far as I'm concerned.
Dead Men Racing: FCV, no reset, wind on, 10-15 lap races, comfort breaks, no voting restarts, friendly, fair, and fun. Oh yes, and clean. Like it or find somewhere more to your taste, we're easy.
EDIT: Oops! Forgot pitstops. :-)

Quote from sinbad :

I'm not in the FCV camp really, but imo, this doesn't boil down to "transforming the spatial understanding one has in a real car....into a concrete image", and is much more about "replicating what one sees in real life".

We differ then. I just think you're wrong there. But thanks for posting, since I do agree very much that the argument is healthy. Far too many people here are taking the trogladyte attitude that "sim=single point perspective viewpoint". That's just plain wrong.

As if there aren't enough bloody fundamentalists in the world already....

BTW... Sorry to hear about DMR... before I was forced offline temporarily, I raced there a couple of times and it seemed an especially enticing server: clean, hard racers and imaginative combos. I won't be returning ... not a principled stand just won't have the cpu to cope ... as I noted before, the decent servers will all fall over themselves to be 'hardcore' ... au revoir.

My 'maybe we'll meet on track after all' comment was made to alland44 who is giving fcv a go. Interestingly, I counted 12 servers out of 380 with fcv. That didn't include private servers or ones with reset allowed. Most of those were autox (why no whinge from autoxers?) so it doesn't look as though you're being forced into a corner! Chill fer Christ's sake!

Quote from Doorman :

Chill fer Christ's sake!

This is how I chill...

Sorry, I don't come from the sort of background where argument is considered stressful or combative. It is considered necessary and healthy.

Quote from nihil :

This is how I chill...

Sorry, I don't come from the sort of background where argument is considered stressful or combative. It is considered necessary and healthy.

So this argument for health and relaxation purposes?

Sorry 'discussion'

Me wonders if Lewis Hamilton has his McLaren Simulator set to chase view...

bah. Learn to embrace the blind corner, and Live for Speed.

Quote from quackdougal :

i have always been a CV driver in the driving games that i play, but with LFS, mirrors seem to be a crucial part of gameplay. on my 19" 4/3 monitor, if i set the FOV to include the mirrors, then (most cars at least) feel like i'm driving a dragster. I tend to drive with settings more closer to what MagicFr states above but with just enough to see clocks & gear indicator, because for me at least, seems far more realistic than the high FOV dragster view.

the problem i have with that though is to view my mirrors i have to turn my head a full 90deg to even view the mirror next to me. this is totally unrealistic, after even just a few turns i get totally disoriented and repeated use just plainly makes me feel sick (and not want to race no more).

what i'd like to see is two more options (buttons) for view to mirrors. this should turn/move your head only just enough to bring the mirror into the edge of the screen. that way (with the nearest mirror at least) you can still see the apex and view your mirror at the same time by just moving your eyeballs as both will sill be on the screen, all-be-it different positions. obviously, when bringing in the furthest mirror to the edge of view there will be even less of the apex on view, i dunno about you guys, but in r/l i tend to move my head more central to the car (when at speed) and as far back as possible to give the best view possible of furthest mirror and apex simultainiusly, by moving my eyeballs only.

i think what im trying to say is in mirror view, the mirror and apex (which should never be lost!!) should be at either end of the screen at the same time, instead of just the left/right 90deg snap that we have atm.

i am not suggesting that we replace the left/right view as it is really good, what i'm suggesting is extra mirror views buttons that is not so violent and won't make me as sick feeling, and allow those others like me with piss-ant tiny monitors (never thought of my 19" as small before LFS lol) a realistic FOV without the trade off for bringing mirrors into view.

i hope this makes sense lmao
QD

no comments??

thank god i didn't go into my thoughts on another two buttons for nearest threat left/right (a.k.a something similar to padlock view in flight sim games).
lets face it there are times when you want to look generally out of the window and the left right 90deg views are fine for this, but imo, when at speed, you already know what you want to look at, in real life something passes you a speed your head will naturally track it. if neck and neck in turn one, you want to turn your head just enough to bring the wing of the nearest car to the edge of your view at the press of a button so you wont loose your orientation as you do with the 90deg snap left/right views. similarly, there are times when you want to eyeball the driver next to you, even if its just to see if he's looking at you!! lol

i wont write a page on how i think this could be implemented this time unless people are actually interested (ok, i did, see edit below), but suffice to say i think that by adding these (to coin a favourate term in this thread, optional) buttons Scawen could kill two birds with one stone.

along with the obvious help it would give us human racers, there's the question on the "new & improved" upcomming AI. i.e when the AI for instance has recieved there updates, will they still drive with there heads in the forward position?, because i for one would like to see them glance at there mirrors ocassionally, or even eyeball a driver thats really close. granted it whould be probably be artificialy scripted at random but it would add to the feel of realism with the ai, considering how long we have to run them to train them (i for one am really looking forward to training the ai when updated )

QD

for anyone thinking "too many views.." i would say you could never have enough views....
for anyone thinking "too many buttons.." truth is, we've never got enough buttons anyway
......failing that, ITS AN OPTION !!! lmao

EDIT...
ok, this is what i was thinking..

click (hold) right nearest threat turns head only enough to bring the nearest car (on right) front wing to the edge of view.
whilst holding down right nearest threat, hold down left threat will give you eyeball-2-eyeball view of car driver on right.
again, whilst holding down right nearest threat, double click and hold left threat to turn head even further to view other threats from behind/right rear quarter.
and vice-versa

(similar to when you press and hold left view, then press right you dont turn right, you turn 180deg in the left direction)
again, hope this makes sense lol

Quote from Doorman :

So this argument for health and relaxation purposes?

Sorry 'discussion'

LOL... why the ? Is it weird to think of communication as healthy?

BTW, I'm not sure if you missed the point of my previous post... My experience of DMR was that it was, probably is, a great server. In my estimation, that means its free of spammy chat, not bound to the LFS standard combos, with hard, fair racing. You want FCV...? Whatever, I understand why, but dispute the logic... That doesn't mean I don't still think DMR is probably a great server to race on.

This is one of those discussions where it becomes necessary to state some kind of preference; that in itself makes it a divisive issue. Anyway, for the record: I don't play other games, only LFS and GPL. I'm only interested in driving simulations (with maybe the occasional gliding sim thrown in...). I'm not an arcade gamer, never have been. Not even Tetris... I'm a driver with over twenty years experience, and an artist and designer for just as long. I know about driving from experience. I know about images from experience. I know that between a photograph of a building, a painting, and an architects plan, there is not one that can claim to be more realistic than the other. Images are inherently subjective, and if the herd says it is imperative to believe otherwise, then there is almost always something inherently wrong with the herd's beliefs.

And yes, I feel more chilled for saying as much!